# 7 reasons to not make war on Iraq **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 6, 2002, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827 "2002-12-06T01:22:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Chumpsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9a140/32.png) [@Chumpsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chumpsky)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/181 "2002-12-09T00:21:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MEBuckner \* > **Why is “guerilla warfare” on the list of things which should be tried before considering “war”? "Before you consider war, you need to consider all the other options, like, for example…war!"** I am all for revolutions, as long as they are internal revolutions that come from the people. What I object to is the crime of _aggression_. > [@](#): > > **I am not under the impression that guerrilla wars, as opposed to other kinds of wars, are notably gentle on civilian populations.** Yes, but guerrillas can only stay in the field (real guerrillas, not proxy terrorists like the Contras or Mujahadeen) if they have genuine support from the population. A guerrilla war cannot be waged otherwise. > [@](#): > > **To use a hypothetical example which should be near and dear to _Chumpsky_’s heart, it would surely have been easier on the Vietnamese population if the U.S. and ARVN on one side and the Viet Cong and NVA on the other had lined up on some nice flat plain someplace and simply had it out.** You wanna open up that can 'o worms, do ya? To put it briefly, it would have been difficult for the NLF to make it harder on the population, since the NLF was the freakin’ population. You must keep in mind that the Vietnam war was waged mostly against the south, and that it was exactly the civilian population that was targetted. If you want to get into this, I suggest starting a new thread. > [@](#): > > \*\*Modern high-tech warfare, as practiced by the United States military, is no picnic for civilian populations, but it beats the hell out of some protracted guerrilla struggle. \*\* I don’t think so. An internal guerrilla group would do much less damage to the infrastructure. What is infinitely more important, though, is that a guerrilla group would have to come from the people, not from outside. It is much better to have an internal liberation struggle than to be conquered by an outside power. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/182 "2002-12-09T00:39:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doghouse Reilly \* > I did not apologize, minty. No kidding? ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/183 "2002-12-09T00:40:58Z")
I know you are, but what am I? :rolleyes: There, I can play at your level, too. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/184 "2002-12-09T00:45:34Z")
Why don’t you two knock it off or take to the Pit, OK? ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/185 "2002-12-09T01:06:10Z")
[OK.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=148973). Sorry, MEBuckner. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/186 "2002-12-09T01:36:34Z")
Am I the only one who thinks Mexico is in North America, as is Canada? OK, on with the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Soup\_du\_jour](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Soup\_du\_jour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soup_du_jour)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/187 "2002-12-09T03:34:42Z")
**Doghouse Reilly** , I think that **minty** was saying that, from the standpoint of destroying Al Qaeda, the Afghan War was quite the failure. From the standpoint of ousting the Taliban, however, I think that it was an unequivocal success. It is yet to be seen how stable the country becomes under Karzai, though. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by minty green_ > **Sorry, I must have missed it where we killled, Osama bin Laden, Mullah Omar, Ayman Al-Zawahiri, Abdullah Abdullah, etc.** We were trying to kill Abdullah Abdullah? :eek: Than who would head the Afghan foreign ministry? Huh? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/188 "2002-12-09T03:51:09Z")
[Abdullah Ahmed Abdullah](http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/terrorists/terabdullah.htm), wanted in connection with the African embassy bombings. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/189 "2002-12-09T04:00:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Soup\_du\_jour \* > **Doghouse Reilly** , I think that **minty** was saying that, from the standpoint of destroying Al Qaeda, the Afghan War was quite the failure. > > From the standpoint of ousting the Taliban, however, I think that it was an unequivocal success. _shrug_ You might as well say that from the standpoint of destroying the Confederacy, Gettysburg was quite the failure for the Union because Pickett and Lee got away. You don’t win a war in a single engagement. I’ve been saying Afghanistan has been a mixed bag, and we may not be able to judge its outcome without the benefit of hindsight and the completion of the war. Prematurely judging it as a disaster overall is intellectually dishonest and skews one’s ability to debate the upcoming battle in Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/190 "2002-12-09T11:10:47Z")
Can anyone state that regieme change in Iraq is NOT a good thing for all concerned? ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/191 "2002-12-09T12:48:17Z")
Yes. Because we don’t know what the regime will change _into_. ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/192 "2002-12-09T12:54:30Z")
Could it really be worse? ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/193 "2002-12-09T12:55:57Z")
Yes, it could. ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/194 "2002-12-09T13:04:39Z")
how? ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/195 "2002-12-09T15:36:58Z")
Even the mods are ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/196 "2002-12-09T16:40:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by owlstretchingtime \* > \*\*how? \*\* How about:[ul][_]Saudi Arabia style Wahabis sympathetic and supportive of ObL and anti-Western terrorism in general.[_]Iran-supported Shi’a majority sympathetic to anti-Western terrorism and even more antagonistic toward Israel than present Iraqi government.Fragmented collection of warlords with access to WMD’s and no compunctions against using them in the region.[/ul]That’s just off the top of my head. ---
**Author:** ![Soup\_du\_jour](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Soup\_du\_jour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soup_du_jour)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/197 "2002-12-09T18:48:28Z")
**Doghouse Reilly** , if an objective of Gettysburg was for the Union Army to capture Lee or Pickett, than it would be a failure in that regard. I always thought that Gettysburg was an accidental engagement brought on by a Lee offensive. I’ve never heard anything to suggest otherwise. In the Afghan War, however, President Bush explicitly said that one aim was to capture or kill Osama bin Laden. Yeah, we severely crippled Al Qaeda, which is a great thing, but we still failed in a primary military objective. But, as we all know, the “War On Terror” isn’t over yet. (Will it ever be? No.) We cannot call wars failures or successes until the completion of them. But I digress. ---
**Author:** ![Soup\_du\_jour](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Soup\_du\_jour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soup_du_jour)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/198 "2002-12-09T18:51:31Z")
Oh, and **minty** , I was making a funny. So many Abdullah Abdullahs… ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/199 "2002-12-09T19:33:05Z")
I wasn’t worried. Just wanted to clear up any confustion on the matter. Those guys’ names all sound the same anyway. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Chumpsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9a140/32.png) [@Chumpsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chumpsky)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/200 "2002-12-09T19:59:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by owlstretchingtime \* > \*\*Could it really be worse? \*\* Yes. It has often been the case that U.S. installed dictators have been much worse for the population than the old dictators. Iraq was actually fairly well off under Saddam before the U.S. destroyed Iraqi society. That is not to say that Saddam isn’t a monster, but he did invest in the country. Iraq was the most advanced country in the Arab world by far before the U.S.siege. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827.md?page=11)