# 7 reasons to not make war on Iraq **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 6, 2002, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827 "2002-12-06T01:22:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/81 "2002-12-07T15:44:58Z")
So if I say "goat felcher;) " that’s ok. Or "seeping pustule on the rectum of humanity;) " or "Trent Lott;) " Got it. Boy, this propriety stuff is more complicated than it looks, huh? And, point of fact, I myself have been called a “liar” _by_ a moderator, and nobody seemed to much give a damn. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/82 "2002-12-07T16:06:00Z")
I think that’s basically how it works. You should use the tactic more often. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/83 "2002-12-07T17:09:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > \*\*So how come saying “schmuck” is warnable, but we have a smiley that says “putz”? \*\* Because it would prick the dignity of a male member of the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/84 "2002-12-07T18:25:55Z")
Would that be Peter Johnson? Or Dick? ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/85 "2002-12-07T18:55:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chumpsky \* > **I’ll eat my fucking hat if you can show that the collection of murderers and torturers running the U.S. care a fucking whit about anything except themselves.** Cite, please, that even one, single, solitary, member of the Bush Administration is a murderer or torturer. > [@](#): > > **Obviously, if they cared even the slightest about human life, they would not have been maintaining the murderous economic sanctions and bombing the country 4 times a week for 10 years.** Well, since Mr. Clinton has been Our Leader for 8 of those 10 years, why don’t you blame him? Or is Americans in general that you hate? ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/86 "2002-12-07T19:02:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chumpsky \* > **In fact, during the leadup to the first Gulf War, the U.S. avoided diplomacy like the plague, despite Iraq’s numerous offers to come to a peaceful settlement.** What, numerous offers to come to a peaceful settlement AFTER Iraq invaded Kuwait? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/87 "2002-12-07T19:06:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chumpsky \* > \*\*Number of unprovoked attacks by the U.S. on other countries in the past 25 years: 14 > > [cite](http://www.zmag.org/CrisesCurEvts/interventions.htm)\*\* Your cite is bogus. Among other idiocies, it includes the attack on the USS Cole as an American military intervention. How does being the target of an attack become a military intervention in your world? ---
**Author:** ![Jonmarzie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@Jonmarzie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonmarzie)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/88 "2002-12-07T19:17:03Z")
> [@](#): > > _Chumpsky said:_ > **Obviously, if they cared even the slightest about human life, they would not have been maintaining the murderous economic sanctions and bombing the country 4 times a week for 10 years.** Chumpsky, since Hussein is the reason for the sanctions against Iraq, if we remove him from power, there will be no more need for these “murderous economic sanctions” you speak of. By removing Saddam, we will be removing the sanctions. The people of Iraq will be better off. There will be no more of these economic sanctions if Saddam is removed. > [@](#): > > _Chumpsky said:_\*\* > . . . the U.S. government is full of known liars. There is no reason to trust anything they say.\*\* Correct me if I’m wrong, but since it is the government’s job to know foreign policy better than anyone else, when you discount anything that the government says, you are cutting out the most knowledgable people in the field in which we are debating. :smack: I know that I believe that the most knowledgable in various fields have valuable insights, even if they may be somewhat biased. I’d much rather have knowledgable biased opinions in a debate rather than just having the less knowledgable opinions rule. Oh, and **soup\_du\_jour** is a :wally ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/89 "2002-12-07T19:38:23Z")
You guys don’t understand - The U.S. state department is not a credible source for data. To get the at the real truth, you have to read radical leftist web sites being run by disgruntled 18 year olds out of their parents’ basements. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/90 "2002-12-07T19:44:35Z")
Yes, indeed, **Sam**! Like that radical 18 year old who held aloft proof positive “I don’t know what more proof you need” that proved to be a report that never existed. The radical web sites that claim to have proof that Iraq has WMD’s and then refuses to back up that claim. The radical lefty 18 year old web sites that tries to rattle American nerves with wild assed tales of incontinental drone aircraft armed with nuclear anthrax. You mean that disreputable bunch. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/91 "2002-12-07T20:04:18Z")
_Intercontinental_ drone aircraft. Unless Saddam is threatening us with aircraft who wet their pants. [Incidentally, Iraq **does** have WMD.](http://www.nypost.com/news/worldnews/63758.htm) I don’t know what more proof you need. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/92 "2002-12-07T20:13:43Z")
> [@](#): > > Unless Saddam is threatening us with aircraft who wet their pants. The P-51? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/93 "2002-12-07T20:29:43Z")
Wow, the _New York Post_ scores a scoop! Nobody else has this story, not Drudge, not CNN, nobody! Wow! They must have taken some reporters off the Bat Boy story! The whole WMD thing is a shuck. The Bushistas will go to war over anything, they have made this abundantly clear. They would like to have the UN on board, it looks nicer that way. But Our Leader is not about to make US policy subordinate to UN policy. If Our Leader can bust Saddam bin Laden on WMD’s, fine, he’s happy to do so. But allegedly the authority for these inspections derive from the UN, presumably the decision whether to enforce those resolutions or not, and to what extent, would rest with the UN. Does anyone here seriously believe that if the UN says “No, thanks, no war today” Our Leader will back down? Of course not. Unless the US accepts UN authority in this regard, the whole issue of WMD’s only so much window dressing. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/94 "2002-12-07T20:47:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* \*\* > > First of all, what’s your evidence for this? My impression is that CIA _analysts_ have a good reputation for accurate analysis . \*\* That could be true, but I’m not going to consider the informations publically released by the intelligence services of a country about to wage war on another as the most reliable and independant source about this incoming conflict. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/95 "2002-12-07T20:48:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > [Incidentally, Iraq **does** have WMD.](http://www.nypost.com/news/worldnews/63758.htm) Shodan Unfortunately, this item was printed in error. The mustard gas was left over from the last war, and Iraq was required not to touch it. The UN merely confirmed that it was still there. > [@](#): > > In our lead item on Iraqi weapons inspectors, we cited their finding of artillery shells loaded with mustard gas at an Iraqi facility but misunderstood the meaning of the finding. In fact, inspectors had identified the weapons but didn’t have time to destroy them before they were kicked out of Iraq in 1998. This time the inspectors were making sure the shells were still intact, as the Iraqis were not supposed to tamper with them–a somewhat perverse result of the U.N. resolutions, since it ended up leaving Saddam with weapons of mass destruction during the period with no inspections. [http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110002736](http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110002736) ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/96 "2002-12-07T20:50:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > \*\*You guys don’t understand - The U.S. state department is not a credible source for data. To get the at the real truth, you have to read radical leftist web sites being run by disgruntled 18 year olds out of their parents’ basements. \*\* Are you joking, \*\* Sam Stone \*\* ? Do you believe the department of foreign affairs of a country is an independant source about international issues this country is involved in??? Especially when there’s a risk of war??? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Daoloth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/82dd89/32.png) [@Daoloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daoloth)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/97 "2002-12-07T20:58:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chumpsky \* > \*\*Yes, a more credible source of information is difficult to imagine. > > :rolleyes: > > Don’t be such a shmuck. \*\* That’s an argumentative fallacy there, **Chumpsky.** Now provide why we can’t trust Iraqi defectors. I expect to see well researched 5 page essay with at least 20 external cites in order to be convinced. Otherwise, you’re just dodging the evidence. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/98 "2002-12-07T22:00:59Z")
Well, they’re _defectors_, aren’t they? One has certain expectations from defectors. Not that this can be taken as certain proof that everything they say is false. But neither can the opposite be presumed. After all, a defector who displeases his host is not welcome for long. ---
**Author:** ![Daoloth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/82dd89/32.png) [@Daoloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daoloth)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/99 "2002-12-07T22:15:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > \*\*Well, they’re _defectors_, aren’t they? One has certain expectations from defectors. Not that this can be taken as certain proof that everything they say is false. But neither can the opposite be presumed. After all, a defector who displeases his host is not welcome for long. \*\* I’ll give you that much. It’s still up to Chumpsky, though, to back up his assertion that the source isn’t trustable. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2002, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827/100 "2002-12-07T22:30:05Z")
Why? If you already know the source is likely to be compromised, what value can you expect to obtain, with any certainty? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-reasons-to-not-make-war-on-iraq/140827.md?page=6)