# 7 year old Pomeranian becoming grumpy and somewhat mean **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 12, 2012, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-pomeranian-becoming-grumpy-and-somewhat-mean/612590 "2012-02-12T05:40:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![saje](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saje/32/3631_2.png) [@saje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saje)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-pomeranian-becoming-grumpy-and-somewhat-mean/612590/21 "2012-02-13T01:00:08Z")
You might also look into a citonella bark collar. Same principal as a zap bark collar, but they get a squirt of citronella instead, which most dogs find unpleasant. A really dedicated barker can bark through them, so it sort of depends on how tough your little guy is. Oh, and prozac isn’t commonly needed for MOST breeds or crosses, but it can be useful in overcoming temporary or new stresses. ---
**Author:** ![obbn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d6d6ee/32.png) [@obbn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obbn)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-pomeranian-becoming-grumpy-and-somewhat-mean/612590/22 "2012-02-13T01:04:44Z")
> [@MaddyStrut](#): > > **Obbn** , you really should see about getting a dog trainer in. Ask your vet for recommendations or ask at a local agility/obedience trials.\*\* Saje’s\*\* post on training a dog to like a crate is really good, but I think it would help you a lot to have someone _show_ you how to do it and walk you through it. > > You sound very angry with the dog for doing what dogs do when they aren’t trained. Dogs do annoying, destructive, unacceptable things. It’s up to the humans to extinguish that behavior. I think you could greatly benefit from having someone who knows how to train dogs show you what you need to do. I am not angry at the dog, but I am tired from little sleep for the last week or so. Frustrated would be more the word. > [@](#): > > I don’t say this because the dog seems like a problem case. Rather, you don’t seem to have any training knowledge or tools for this issue. Barking all night is not acceptable, but it’s not uncommon. A good trainer will have lots to teach you. I have no doubt that a trainer would helpful, however before spending money that doesn’t need to yet be spent I will first try to find a solution by asking a few questions. If the answer is an easy one, all the better. If I can’t find an answer, the next step will be his vet and then if need be a trainer. As with the Chow, a trainer (will possibly useful) would have been a waste of money. The answer was to get him fixed. Which was suggested on this board. And there’s no shame in getting help when you need it. I’d been pretty darned good at training my dogs until I got my youngest and had problems I couldn’t fix. A trainer worked with me and gave me more tools to use that worked wonderfully. For the record, I haven’t ever heard of poms getting grumpy and mean with old age any more or less than other breeds of dogs. But 7 isn’t old age, and it doesn’t sound like your dog is “mean.” Barking all night is unacceptable, but it’s not mean. He’s not doing it just to irritate you. [/QUOTE] I realize that he isn’t doing it to irritate me. But something is wrong and I will find out what it is. The first step in finding anything out is to ask questions. That is exactly what I am doing. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-pomeranian-becoming-grumpy-and-somewhat-mean/612590/23 "2012-02-13T01:05:36Z")
> [@obbn](#): > > Good suggestion and have already done so. Their kennels are apart now. However it didn’t seem to help the situation. I get the feeling that if I kenneled the Pom with the Dane that would solve the problem. However it wouldn’t be in any way fair to the Dane as the Pom won’t leave him be for even a minute. I would suspect that if I tried that the Dane would go out of his mind. Okay, so which dog’s kennel did you move? Maybe try moving the other. Also, when they were near each other, how near? Maybe the solution isn’t moving them further apart, but closer together. Maybe, putting their two kennels in contact with each other might do the trick and still allow the Dane to have his own space. ---
**Author:** ![saje](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saje/32/3631_2.png) [@saje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saje)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-pomeranian-becoming-grumpy-and-somewhat-mean/612590/24 "2012-02-13T01:06:59Z")
One more thought - is the Pom trying to play with the Dane, or is he barking/harassing trying to bully him? The puppy may not be old enough or socialized enough to understand yet that he can tell the little guy off. That may need to happen w/out human intervention, if it can be done w/out damage to the Pom. It’s OK for one dog to tell the other ‘Knock It OFF!’ with a snap, because 99% of the time the snap is not intended to make contact - they know exactly where their teeth are going. The size difference btwn Dane and Pom could make a Oops into an Oh Dear though 😕 ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-pomeranian-becoming-grumpy-and-somewhat-mean/612590/25 "2012-02-13T02:54:28Z")
Please, before you do anything else, let the vet check your dog! It’s always good to start with the simple things first. ---
**Author:** ![thelabdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@thelabdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelabdude)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-pomeranian-becoming-grumpy-and-somewhat-mean/612590/26 "2012-02-13T03:11:42Z")
Google at your own risk. Usually on dog advice it seems to rank the worst kooks first. ---
**Author:** ![LVBoPeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/858c86/32.png) [@LVBoPeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LVBoPeep)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-pomeranian-becoming-grumpy-and-somewhat-mean/612590/27 "2012-02-13T14:49:07Z")
I’d definitely take the Pom to the vet if it’s a drastic change. My gut feeling says that he got hurt, possibly by the Great Dane (personally not a big fan of people with tiny dogs getting a big dog puppy) which would explain his grumpiness and his need to go overboard with his attitude with the bigger dog. Sounds like a dog with back or neck trauma or arthritis to me, which might explain why he wants to be out of his crate if he associates it with any pain or can’t get comfortable in it. And it may not be a popular opinion here but a quality shock collar that you can adjust the levels (we use one for Bastard Heeler) is a useful tool and FAR more humane than dumping the dog. ---
**Author:** ![Kkrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Kkrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kkrose)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-pomeranian-becoming-grumpy-and-somewhat-mean/612590/28 "2012-02-13T15:57:51Z")
I too have a seven year old Pom. He was having issues with growling when I cam near and just being grumpy overall. Turns out that, even though he is relatively young, he had arthritis. The vet prescribed some painkillers that he gets in his food twice a day and he is much happier. Also, my parents used the citronella collars on their yappy Scotties who used to bark at the neighbors all the time. They were trained not to bark within a day. They only put the collars on when they went outside and the dogs learned quickly that if the collars were on, and they barked, the would get squirted. If your Pom is only barking at night in his crate, maybe you could just put the collar on at night. However, I would try the vet first to rule out pain or some other cause first. Dogs do not tend to show pain all that well and I think sometimes we feel we can read what are dogs are feeling more than we actually can. ETA: I have found that pretty much any petcare question on this board will lead to responses of “you are a horrible uneducated pet owner with no heart.” I lend it to the vast differences in backgrounds and opinions that also make this board so fun to read. Don’t take it personally, there is no doubt that you love your dogs very much or you wouldn’t be asking for advice on how to solve your problem. ---
**Author:** ![Foxy40](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Foxy40](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foxy40)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-pomeranian-becoming-grumpy-and-somewhat-mean/612590/29 "2012-02-13T17:13:21Z")
> [@Kkrose](#): > > I too have a seven year old Pom. He was having issues with growling when I cam near and just being grumpy overall. Turns out that, even though he is relatively young, he had arthritis. The vet prescribed some painkillers that he gets in his food twice a day and he is much happier. That was my initial thought. It sounds like he is in pain and being crated somehow makes it worse. I am surprised that the dog hasn’t been taking to the vet already as two nights of this would have one of my guys in the doggy ER. Obbn: I am sorry you were insulted but many on this board are true dog lovers and there isn’t a behavior issue around that would cause us to threaten to put our beloved pets down or bring them to the pound. Least of all barking from being upset about something. Your attitude about your pets are more common than those of us crazy pet people but your threat seemed truly horrifying to many of us. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-pomeranian-becoming-grumpy-and-somewhat-mean/612590/30 "2012-02-13T18:25:05Z")
> [@obbn](#): > > The reason I said the pound could be an option is that the Pom is growling now. I have zero tolerance for a dog that is growling because of a personality trait. If the dog is growling because it is hurt, different story I will get it the medical attention that it needs. But if a dog is growling because it is aging and it is COMMON for that breed to turn grumpy and cranky the options are limited. The dog is not growling “because of” either personality or pain; the dog is growling _to communicate_. Finding out _what_ he’s communicating is what you (and anyone helping you, like message-board respondents or the vet or trainer) should do. High on the list of possibilities are items like the aforementioned arthritis, jealousy, or (possibly) the Pom’s perception that he’s been crated as punishment for harassing the Dane. > [@obbn](#): > > Thanks for the advice. To make it clear once more however, I have not and don’t plan on taking any “punitive” measures with the dog. Outside of saying “be quite” there has been nothing done to punish the dog. Speaking of that, is it possible he’s been crated at some time different from his previous bedtime schedule, such as when he became too unruly with the Dane? Could he be perceiving that as a change due to the Dane’s arrival? > [@obbn](#): > > If feeding, housing and loving a dog will cause them to have a problem, then I guess I am guilty. That dog has been shown nothing but love from day one. Well, I personally find “might take the dog to the pound” and “it” unusual constructions to use when discussing a loved one, but perhaps I am quibbling. > [@saje](#): > > One more thought - is the Pom trying to play with the Dane, or is he barking/harassing trying to bully him? The puppy may not be old enough or socialized enough to understand yet that he can tell the little guy off. That may need to happen w/out human intervention, if it can be done w/out damage to the Pom. Yes please, it might be helpful to go into more detail about exactly what the Pom is doing (and how the Dane is responding) when he “won’t leave the Dane alone.” To take a slightly different approach than **saje** , I believe it’s the pack leader’s role to moderate the amount of fighting that goes on in the pack. I would watch them interact and, when one or both dogs seemed to escalate, step in and gently physically separate them with a confident, calm verbal command. But this approach may require more familiarity with dog body language than you are comfortable with > [@Foxy40](#): > > That was my initial thought. It sounds like he is in pain and being crated somehow makes it worse. Concur that arthritis sounds like a possible culprit (or exacerbating factor). > [@Foxy40](#): > > Obbn: I am sorry you were insulted but many on this board are true dog lovers and there isn’t a behavior issue around that would cause us to threaten to put our beloved pets down or bring them to the pound. Least of all barking from being upset about something. Your attitude about your pets are more common than those of us crazy pet people but your threat seemed truly horrifying to many of us. Concur also that it doesn’t help you or your Pom if we alienate you. But your post did have the potential to raise hackles among dog-lovers. Consider my terminological quibble above – if a mother came onto the board and posted that she was considering giving up her child because “it” harasses the younger child and makes noise at night, people would be put off by the language as well as the (even hypothetical) action, if they didn’t assume it was black humor. Although I don’t know the layout of where crates were at first and where they are now, there is one trick you could try. When I was socializing the semi-feral 7-month-old puppy we took in, at first she would whine when crated at night. After two nights of trying to ignore it, I brought out some sleeping pads and blankets and made a pallet for myself next to her crate. Equipped with a portable alarm clock so I would be able to get up in time for work, this setup let me sleep moderately comfortably within sight of her, but she still had to be crated. this was of great effectiveness in acclimating her to her crate – after a few days I was able to return to my regular bed, out of her line of sight. The situation is not the same in your case, but if your Pom is not currently close to his favorite family member when crated, perhaps his crate could be moved to a table where he can see that family member sleeping (while still being in his crate). Maybe that would be comfort enough to him to allow you to regain blessed silence. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-pomeranian-becoming-grumpy-and-somewhat-mean/612590/31 "2012-02-13T21:33:34Z")
Thanks, **Sailboat** , for a well-thought-out and nicely phrased response. I like your cot trick - that’s a good idea to try. ---
**Author:** ![thelabdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@thelabdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelabdude)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-pomeranian-becoming-grumpy-and-somewhat-mean/612590/32 "2012-02-14T03:40:29Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Although I don’t know the layout of where crates were at first and where they are now, there is one trick you could try. When I was socializing the semi-feral 7-month-old puppy we took in, at first she would whine when crated at night. > > After two nights of trying to ignore it, I brought out some sleeping pads and blankets and made a pallet for myself next to her crate. Equipped with a portable alarm clock so I would be able to get up in time for work, this setup let me sleep moderately comfortably within sight of her, but she still had to be crated. this was of great effectiveness in acclimating her to her crate – after a few days I was able to return to my regular bed, out of her line of sight. > . Compare to this paragraph I post at Yahoo answers several times a day: ‘‘Puppies are known for crying the first few nights. I have never had much luck with the old clock or radio tricks. What I do is lay down by the crate like I was going to sleep there. Usually a puppy may fuss a little, but then settle down and go to sleep. Once it is asleep, you can get up and go to bed.’’ Maybe 7 week olds are easier to fool. With a new puppy every year, we lost a lot of sleep before I discovered that trick on night when our new puppy had set the neighbors’ dogs to barking. It has worked for everyone of at least a dozen puppies. I doubt it will solve the OP’s problem, but maybe somebody else’s. To a young puppy used to sleeping in a ball with mother and litermates, nothing is worse than being left alone. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-pomeranian-becoming-grumpy-and-somewhat-mean/612590/33 "2012-02-14T17:36:45Z")
I had a Boston terrorist who got grumpy in his middle-to-old age. A quick blood draw at the vet revealed that he had hypothyroid and medication cleared that right up. He also had severe separation anxiety (had been a stud dog in a puppy mill) and was put on Dog-zac (Clomipromine) for a few months. It settled him down enough to allow him to focus so I could carry on with behavioral modification training. Resolution for both behavioral problems started with a trip to the vet, and it wasn’t just “next time I’m in there, I might remember to mention it…” it was a very specific, planned appointment. In the last thread you started about the Chow, I recommended my dog trainers, which is a national chain, [BarkBusters](http://www.barkbusters.com/). That post and recommendation was completely ignored, which is fine. Most of my posts are. I am not offended. So dogs turning grumpy _can_ be medically related or they can be behavioral. I suspect behavior because of the new Great Dane in the picture. This is the part where investing in a personal dog trainer will be money well spent. It\* is\* necessary \*if \*there are no medical issues and everything you’ve tried already hasn’t worked. It is obvious to me that you do not think a professional trainer is worth the money. Let me mention this then: I went ahead and invested in the lifetime training guarantee with BarkBusters, which means, if the dog breaks training or some new, problematic behavior crops up – at any point, for the rest of her life – I can call this trainer who will come over to consult and help me resolve the problem. That, and every time I meet with the trainer, I learn new dog training skills I hadn’t had known about before. These news skills have been applied to _other_ dogs, not just mine. So the training investment is for _you_, not for the dog. _You_’d benefit from BarkBusters’ techniques (or any other reputable training program) for the rest of your dog-owning life. But it just doesn’t seem like you want to hear that. Without meeting with all your dogs and all your two-footed family members and learning more about the routine and how each human interacts with each dog, it’s going to be next to impossible to give you really useful advice. I think it’s time to hire a professional. Do it this one time. I bet you will learn training skills that will carry forward with all future dogs for the rest of your life. ---
**Author:** ![saje](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saje/32/3631_2.png) [@saje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saje)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-pomeranian-becoming-grumpy-and-somewhat-mean/612590/34 "2012-02-14T18:18:54Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > I had a Boston terrorist who got grumpy in his middle-to-old age. A quick blood draw at the vet revealed that he had hypothyroid and medication cleared that right up. He also had severe separation anxiety (had been a stud dog in a puppy mill) and was put on Dog-zac (Clomipromine) for a few months. It settled him down enough to allow him to focus so I could carry on with behavioral modification training. Resolution for both behavioral problems started with a trip to the vet, and it wasn’t just “next time I’m in there, I might remember to mention it…” it was a very specific, planned appointment. > > In the last thread you started about the Chow, I recommended my dog trainers, which is a national chain, [BarkBusters](http://www.barkbusters.com/). That post and recommendation was completely ignored, which is fine. Most of my posts are. I am not offended. > > So dogs turning grumpy _can_ be medically related or they can be behavioral. I suspect behavior because of the new Great Dane in the picture. This is the part where investing in a personal dog trainer will be money well spent. It\* is\* necessary \*if \*there are no medical issues and everything you’ve tried already hasn’t worked. It is obvious to me that you do not think a professional trainer is worth the money. Let me mention this then: I went ahead and invested in the lifetime training guarantee with BarkBusters, which means, if the dog breaks training or some new, problematic behavior crops up – at any point, for the rest of her life – I can call this trainer who will come over to consult and help me resolve the problem. That, and every time I meet with the trainer, I learn new dog training skills I hadn’t had known about before. These news skills have been applied to _other_ dogs, not just mine. So the training investment is for _you_, not for the dog. _You_’d benefit from BarkBusters’ techniques (or any other reputable training program) for the rest of your dog-owning life. > > But it just doesn’t seem like you want to hear that. Without meeting with all your dogs and all your two-footed family members and learning more about the routine and how each human interacts with each dog, it’s going to be next to impossible to give you really useful advice. > > **I think it’s time to hire a professional. Do it this one time. I bet you will learn training skills that will carry forward with all future dogs for the rest of your life**. Yes yes yes YES! It really is money well spent… ---
**Author:** ![kaiwik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaiwik/32/3978_2.png) [@kaiwik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaiwik)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-pomeranian-becoming-grumpy-and-somewhat-mean/612590/35 "2012-02-14T19:06:25Z")
I did not read the entire thread, but would like to add some comments. I have been in Pomeranians for 13+ years, currently own 6 Pomeranians aged 8 - 13 years. No, a Pom does not get cranky for no reason at age 7 or any other age. My happiest Pom is 13 years old. I also crate my Poms for sleeping, eating, and if there is no one at home. I highly recommend taking your little dog to the vet to rule out any health issues, and if that’s clear then you ought to look into behavioral issues. Are all the dogs in your household male? That may be an issue, neutered or not. Poms don’t really accept that they are tiny. Cesar Milan is a genius imnsho, and his techniques have really helped me keep my pack friendly, grounded little dogs. Feel free to pm me, I love the breed and would happily help if I am able. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-pomeranian-becoming-grumpy-and-somewhat-mean/612590.md?page=1)