# 7 year old rampage at Zoo **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 3, 2008, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-rampage-at-zoo/466290 "2008-10-03T09:00:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Angel\_of\_Doubt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7cd45c/32.png) [@Angel\_of\_Doubt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angel_of_Doubt)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-rampage-at-zoo/466290/81 "2008-10-04T00:05:06Z")
A small alteration of that headline would make my day: “Boy fed to crocodile”. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-rampage-at-zoo/466290/82 "2008-10-04T01:56:15Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > I think we need to retire the idea of other cultures not having the same appreciation of animal rights as being completely irrelevant to this discussion - the kid was Australian, he killed the reptiles in an Australian zoo, and Australian culture is not Chinese culture. What they do in China has no bearing on this story. I don’t know how Australians view animal rights; would any Australians care to comment on how Australian society views what this boy did? > > (And now the word “Australian” has lost all meaning to me…😃 ) You are completely missing the point. What matters here is how many Australians would an Australian australianize if Australians could australianize Australians? ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-rampage-at-zoo/466290/83 "2008-10-04T02:37:50Z")
Maybe they should try neutering him—that usually does pretty well with puppies. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-rampage-at-zoo/466290/84 "2008-10-04T02:52:04Z")
I blame Johnny Hart. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-rampage-at-zoo/466290/85 "2008-10-04T03:03:50Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > What do you do with this one? The little snot is too young to be legally responsible . . . . Trebuchet. ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Hen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ad7895/32.png) [@Small\_Hen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Hen)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-rampage-at-zoo/466290/86 "2008-10-04T04:26:06Z")
> [@Angel\_of\_Doubt](#): > > A small alteration of that headline would make my day: “Boy fed to crocodile”. I’m going to chime in with the other posters who are bothered by this kind of statement. This kid is (most likely) mentally very ill. It’s a horrible thing that he did, and I feel bad for the animals, but I feel far, far worse for a child who’s life is likely forever hindered, probably severely. For the rest of his life, there will be doctors, there will be medicine, there will be odd, altered, unsociable behavior. There will be emptiness. The death of a few animals is sad. The loss (in whatever form) of a human life is worse. I’ve spent a little time with mentally ill children on a psych rotation (nursing school). This is not normal behavior, no matter how much some posters would like to equate it with hunting or with a kid who crushes a gecko with his sneaker. This is behavior that shows no fear, that shows no supervision, that shows chaos within this child’s life, and shows him embracing that chaos. Also, another misconception I read that I would like to clear up. Someone (I forget who) said that it was ridiculous that children could be charged with sexual harassment. Children can, and will, molest other children. I’m not talking about a game of “playing doctor,” but full blown, hold the younger kid down, take off their clothes molestation. Don’t tell me it doesn’t exist, I’ve read their charts. Often they’ve experienced it themselves, and it’s sad, but they’re in a mental hospital in order to protect others. And this boy should be too. ---
**Author:** ![Influential\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Influential\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Influential_Panda)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-rampage-at-zoo/466290/87 "2008-10-04T04:39:32Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > Except that in most third world cultures it would be perfectly normal Ooh, relativism. I don’t think we’ve played this game for a while. > [@Small\_Hen](#): > > I’m going to chime in with the other posters who are bothered by this kind of statement. Eh, when I’m watching a kid goof off in the supermarket and scream bloody murder and generally be an obnoxious little shit, I don’t fantasize about positive reinforcement. I wanna slap the shit out of it. Not that I’ll do it, but this is the internet. It’s that little voice in your head given a big voice, not a big deal. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-rampage-at-zoo/466290/88 "2008-10-04T04:55:54Z")
Do we have any references that say that this activity is NOT ONLY a rite of passage but NOT a precursor to being a REALLY DISTURBED AND CREEPY KID? Because I, a kid who grew up in the country, find his behavior FAR from what I would call “normal.” Dudes, the kid is a budding psychopath. Deal with it or explain, cogently, why your arguments are NOT MERELY to support your belief that Guns Are The Answer to All Life’s Problems. ANYTHING in between is bullshit. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Gorgonzola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e480ec/32.png) [@Gorgonzola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorgonzola)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-rampage-at-zoo/466290/89 "2008-10-04T05:08:48Z")
From a children’s mental health perspective, killing and torturing animals at the age of seven is not particularly diagnostic of anything. It is, however, the equivalent of a flashing yellow light: WARNING, DANGER AHEAD – other flashing yellow lights in the field include multiple family members diagnosed with mental illness, persistent enuresis/encopresis, habitual stealing and lying, explosive outbursts, and parents who are literally or figuratively absent – though this is by no means an exhaustive list. The evident enjoyment this boy derived from his actions would almost certainly be interpreted as strongly indicative of a lack of empathy. By age seven a child has heard from an adult somewhere that the animals they encounter experience pain and distress in much the same way that children do. I can’t speculate as to why this information did not process in the typical fashion i.e. through acting compassionately with the smaller and weaker – the usual finding is some combination of bad brain and bad experience requiring a lot of time and effort to offset in order to give the child a chance at the glorious unfolding we refer to as normal life. ---
**Author:** ![Anduinel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Anduinel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduinel)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-rampage-at-zoo/466290/90 "2008-10-04T05:19:40Z")
If this kid were younger, I would be much less bothered by the incident – even at five years old, I could possibly accept that the kid hasn’t grasped the idea that other living things die and feel pain. At seven, I can’t give that pass. It’s just sad and disgusting all around. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-rampage-at-zoo/466290/91 "2008-10-04T05:33:03Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > People shoot feral animals like rabbits and foxes, and the killing of cane toads is universally seen as a good thing. I think there might be laws against it now, but people still kill venomous snakes that could be a danger to people. But something like killing wallabies is seen as a monstrous act, and I think that killing any zoo animal or pet would be seen the same way.\ That’s kind of what I figured; Australian society with regards to how animals are treated is not like China. Somebody said something upthread about how seven year olds aren’t responsible for their actions; that’s part of the reason they need parental supervision - to protect the rest of us from THEM. ---
**Author:** ![madrabbitwoman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c37758/32.png) [@madrabbitwoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madrabbitwoman)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-rampage-at-zoo/466290/92 "2008-10-04T06:25:16Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > As I said, feeding live lizards to a croc is not illegal at all and you could do it all day long so long as the animals are yours. So let us quit all this stupidity that it is inherently wrong. If he had done it at home with his own animals there would be nothing to tall about. > > I will also repeat that I saw some young people feeding live little fishes to a bigger one who would come up slowly and take them in in one gulp. They were fascinated and enjoying it and I do not think they were psycopaths. AFAIK they were not doing anything illegal because one of them worked at that pet store. Are all these teenagers psycopaths? > > What I find more disturbing here is the absolutist positions of right and wrong taken by people who seem to believe there is only one way to judge and that is theirs. Most of China, most of Asia, most of Africa, most of South America would laugh at the concern for a lizard shown here. And Americans of a century ago would have laughed too. As I said, in China you can see someone torturing an animal just for entertainment and nobody thinks anything of it. I walked past a bored young woman at a sales stand who was torturing a puppy just for her own entertainment and I was sickened. I asked my girlfriend if there was anything we could do and she said “no”. It’s her dog and she can do what she likes with it. The police will laugh at you if you call them. Animals are routinely mistreated in those countries and nobody thinks anything of it. It is a matter of culture and respect for animals is not in their culture. And I absolutely do not believe they are all psycopaths or serial killers. > > In most other undeveloped countries the kid would be seen as a normal and curious kid and scolded not to do it but in America (and maybe some other developed countries) the kid is going to end up in counseling and made to believe there is something wrong with him. > > There have been threads here about bullfighting and some have said you have to be sick to enjoy such a thing. And yet I believe you can enjoy watching a bullfight and be a normal person and not a psycopath. > > Like PETA believe you have to be a psycopath if you eat meat, many Americans believe you have to be a psycopath if you enjoy a bullfight or anything else which makes an animal suffer. > > It is even more ironic to observe this absolutist stance against violence on animals in a country which is so ready to inflict violence on its own people and on other peoples. > > I truly fear those who are so certain of the moral superiority of their positions because that certainty gives them the justification to impose their views at gun point. “You have to agree with me that violence is unacceptable and if you do not agree with me then I will kill you and show you.” > > If Abu Ghraib and Iraq and Dachau and Vietnam and Argentina and many other places have shown us is that many people will enjoy torturing and killing not only animals but other human beings just for the sheer power trip. Many people are ready to gloss over such things because “it’s war and in war shit happens” but tell them a boy stepped on lizard and they’ll call for lowering the age for the death penalty. > > I am glad my parents were not like that because I would have ended up in counseling evry other day. I’d rather have a curious kid with initiative even if he sometimes gets into trouble than a conformist kid without initiative. Just because it is annoying me. Feeding protected lizards to a croc IS \*illegal here in Australia. They are PROTECTED for a reason Oh and while I’m thinking of it, the RSPCA here are quite happy to prosecute folks who want to mistreat animals of all kinds. \*be buggered if I can find a link that doesn’t involve 43 pages of other crap. ---
**Author:** ![bathsheba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@bathsheba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bathsheba)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-rampage-at-zoo/466290/93 "2008-10-04T08:10:14Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > I think we need to retire the idea of other cultures not having the same appreciation of animal rights as being completely irrelevant to this discussion - the kid was Australian, he killed the reptiles in an Australian zoo, and Australian culture is not Chinese culture. What they do in China has no bearing on this story. I don’t know how Australians view animal rights; would any Australians care to comment on how Australian society views what this boy did? I checked the pics and it looks as if the kid’s an Aborigine. Aboriginal kids in remote communities are often given the offspring of animals killed for food. They “play” with them until they die and by this I mean, they will play footy with them, pull them apart etc. It was explained to me that this is the way they learn how animals work and part of how they learn to hunt. And I can tell you now, that won’t be “Australian society”'s view. The only thing we’ll agree on is it’s no surprise. I’m more surprised by the sheer number of “kid needs help” responses and the assumption that he’ll now be on the receiving end of any sort of useful intervention. He’s an aboriginal kid in a remote community and that will happen when hell freezes over. [Link](http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/the-aboriginal-intervention-policy-is-failing/2007/09/17/1189881428729.html?page=fullpage) to bigger fail that Top Gear Australia because I assume it won’t have made international news. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-rampage-at-zoo/466290/94 "2008-10-04T11:11:45Z")
> [@Influential\_Panda](#): > > Ooh, relativism. I don’t think we’ve played this game for a while. > > Eh, when I’m watching a kid goof off in the supermarket and scream bloody murder and generally be an obnoxious little shit, I don’t fantasize about positive reinforcement. I wanna slap the shit out of it. > > Not that I’ll do it, but this is the internet. It’s that little voice in your head given a big voice, not a big deal. Exactly. Here’s what the head of the zoo actually said to the press. > [@](#): > > Centre director Rex Neindorf said the behaviour was "disgusting’'. > > "I’m just devastated at the age of the child and the fact no one wants to take responsibility,‘’ he said. > > “The fact a seven-year-old can wreak so much havoc in such a short time, let alone even think of doing something like this, is unbelievable.” > > **"If it was back in my day he’d get a big boot up the arse.‘’** Personally, I’d be more inclined to dangle him over the croc pit until a foot had gone, fulfilling a double role of teaching him about the meaning of pain and also making it a little more difficult to climb over fences in future. Come on, admit it. Who wouldn’t have felt a slight sense of justice being carried out, had this video clip ended up with the croc getting the kid? ---
**Author:** ![Primaflora](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/898d66/32.png) [@Primaflora](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Primaflora)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-rampage-at-zoo/466290/95 "2008-10-04T12:14:04Z")
Hideously enough I agree with Bathsheba that if he is Aboriginal, he won’t get the help in Alice Springs. Not so much with the idea that Aboriginal culture teaches kids how to hunt by using animals as footballs. Irishgirl, I knew kids in highschool who did hideous things to canetoads. And only canetoads. Canetoads are an introduced species in Q and they are a complete ecological nightmare. Somehow that has led to it being OK to do whatever the fuck you want to them. But only them. I’m still all sorts of unforgiving about the time my DH caught one and froze it (as recommended) and didn’t tell me and I took the fucker out the freezer unawares. He can freeze them any time but just tell me in advance! ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-rampage-at-zoo/466290/96 "2008-10-04T12:27:14Z")
> [@bathsheba](#): > > I checked the pics and it looks as if the kid’s an Aborigine. Aboriginal kids in remote communities are often given the offspring of animals killed for food. They “play” with them until they die and by this I mean, they will play footy with them, pull them apart etc. It was explained to me that this is the way they learn how animals work and part of how they learn to hunt. > > And I can tell you now, that won’t be “Australian society”'s view. The only thing we’ll agree on is it’s no surprise. > > I’m more surprised by the sheer number of “kid needs help” responses and the assumption that he’ll now be on the receiving end of any sort of useful intervention. He’s an aboriginal kid in a remote community and that will happen when hell freezes over. > > [Link](http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/the-aboriginal-intervention-policy-is-failing/2007/09/17/1189881428729.html?page=fullpage) to bigger fail that Top Gear Australia because I assume it won’t have made international news. This seems to validate my point that the kid was not taught not to do that but, no matter, people here will continue to demonstarte how civilized we all are by proposing the kid be fed to crocs, or severily punished in various other unpleasant ways. It is always entertaining in recreational outrage threads to see how people will point out the barbarity of X group who did something outrageous which should not be allowed and then go on to suggest they should all be exterminated, their land nuked back to the stone age, etc. That is how we want to show our superiority over the barbarians. By nuking their countries or by feeding their kids to the crocodiles. And it would all be ok if it ere just idiots shooting off their mouths but the problem is that every once in a while America feels the need to act on such urges to go civilise some people and then we get things like Iraq. It seems it is OK to kill men, women and children if they are the sort of barbarians who might harm a lizzard. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-rampage-at-zoo/466290/97 "2008-10-04T13:04:43Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > This seems to validate my point that the kid was not taught not to do that but, no matter, people here will continue to demonstarte how civilized we all are by proposing the kid be fed to crocs, or severily punished in various other unpleasant ways. > > It is always entertaining in recreational outrage threads to see how people will point out the barbarity of X group who did something outrageous which should not be allowed and then go on to suggest they should all be exterminated, their land nuked back to the stone age, etc. That is how we want to show our superiority over the barbarians. By nuking their countries or by feeding their kids to the crocodiles. And it would all be ok if it ere just idiots shooting off their mouths but the problem is that every once in a while America feels the need to act on such urges to go civilise some people and then we get things like Iraq. It seems it is OK to kill men, women and children if they are the sort of barbarians who might harm a lizzard. :rolleyes: You’ll be saying cops should refrain from being amused by gallows humour next. Get off your high horse, you’re likely to injure yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-rampage-at-zoo/466290/98 "2008-10-04T13:07:12Z")
I doubt that any children have seen more animals being fed to animals than Steve Irwin’s, yet I don’t see them doing something like this. The child is 7 and apparently has no conscience. He doesn’t understand that causing pain is wrong. Age 7 is too late to grow a conscience. The future does not look good for the child. If the parents dismiss it with “Boys will be boys,” the future is really bad. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-rampage-at-zoo/466290/99 "2008-10-04T13:24:09Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Trebuchet. “You will believe a boy can fly…” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-rampage-at-zoo/466290/100 "2008-10-04T13:58:03Z")
> [@Gorgonzola](#): > > From a children’s mental health perspective, killing and torturing animals at the age of seven is not particularly diagnostic of anything. Where did you get such a nonsensical idea? “Cruelty to animals” is most certainly one symptom of Conduct Disorder. Were he to show two other symptoms within the past year, he would meet criteria for CD with childhood onset, a very bad sign. Interestingly enough, during assessments of children, when I ask parents about the presence or absence of CD symptoms, they pretty much respond to most items (truancy, physical fighting, use of a weapon like a bat, brick, bottle or knife, physical cruelty to people) without a great deal of affect, but when I ask about cruelty to animals, they tend to show a lot more affect (“Oh no! He’s never done anything like that!”). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-rampage-at-zoo/466290.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-year-old-rampage-at-zoo/466290.md?page=6)