# $700 Health Insurance **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 21, 2010, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/700-health-insurance/543986 "2010-06-21T15:22:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/700-health-insurance/543986/21 "2010-06-22T00:43:24Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > So? So the fuck what? You really are a useless human being, aren’t you, **Rand**? ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/700-health-insurance/543986/22 "2010-06-22T00:58:51Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > So? So the fuck what? Wow, thanks for offering that interesting bit of insight right there. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/700-health-insurance/543986/23 "2010-06-22T00:58:53Z")
> [@SoulFrost](#): > > You really are a useless human being, aren’t you, **Rand**? Why would you say that? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/700-health-insurance/543986/24 "2010-06-22T01:04:48Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > Wow, thanks for offering that interesting bit of insight right there. Sure, no problem. But really, it just pisses me off how people treat health insurance so much differently than everything else they buy. This OP has done absolutely no research or looking around. He’s just all pissed off that his rate went up. Well, there are lots of options, the foremost of which being to join (or form) a group plan. But he hasn’t looked into any of them, he’s just mad so he wants the government to pay for his health insurance. The fact that the OP doesn’t want to spend $700 on his health insurance doesn’t automatically mean that we need to upend a system that the vast majority of people are extremely happy with. The number of people that like their health insurance is about twice as big as the number of people that like Obama. And if we do upend it, moving it in a more government-dependent direction is absolutely the wrong way to go for obvious reasons that many European countries are demonstrating for us this very minute. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/700-health-insurance/543986/25 "2010-06-22T01:33:54Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > And if we do upend it, moving it in a more government-dependent direction is absolutely the wrong way to go for obvious reasons that many European countries are demonstrating for us this very minute. Oh really? Can you point at the surveys showing them demanding to get a system like the Americans have? Because even the conservative rulers in Europe still say something different: [http://www.france24.com/en/20100329-nicolas-sarkozy-france-praises-healthcare-reform-usa-visit-columbia-university-obama](http://www.france24.com/en/20100329-nicolas-sarkozy-france-praises-healthcare-reform-usa-visit-columbia-university-obama) > [@](#): > > French President Nicolas Sarkozy on Monday welcomed the US health care reform signed into law last week, but said the debate was “hard to believe” in Europe. > > “Welcome to the club of countries that does not dump its sick people,” Sarkozy said at a forum at Columbia University in New York, reacting to the legislation which brings America close to universal health coverage for the first time. > > “But if you want me to be sincere, seen from Europe, when we see the US debate on health care reform, we find it hard to believe.” > > Sarkozy, who is on a visit to the United States that includes a White House dinner with President Barack Obama, said the US leader “should be congratulated” for successfully leading the effort to overhaul the health care system. > > Still, he said that for countries such as France, “it has been 50 years since we have resolved the problem.” > > “If you come to France and you fall sick on the sidewalk, we won’t ask for your credit card before admitting you to a hospital,” the French leader said. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/700-health-insurance/543986/26 "2010-06-22T01:37:33Z")
1. France just increased its retirement age. It is finally realizing that you can’t have a bunch of liberal douche entitlement programs forever. France also has huge permanent unemployment, massive immigration by poor people with its attendant cultural problems, and huge national debt. 2. Sarkozy is wrong about how the US system works, as that quote shows (no US hospital demands a credit card before treating someone who’s collapsed on the sidewalk). 3. You quoted a liberal douche who is in favor of liberal douche policies. Congratulations. Must have been hard to find that one. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/700-health-insurance/543986/27 "2010-06-22T01:38:37Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > The real question is why **DanBlather** doesn’t just get a job that provides a group based health plan. Is it that hard? Because no one who has a pre-existing condition should expect to be self-employed or \ an entrepreneur who wants to start his/her own business, right? Those options disappear with any sort of health issue. > [@Staale\_Nordlie](#): > > I’m sure you could get insurance even _with_ pre-existing conditions, but you might end up paying more than you do now. That’s not true, at least, not in all areas of the US. Some states have high-risk pools that will take anyone, but many of those don’t accept new applicants without a wait or they provide such sub-standard care that they’re more or less a waste of money. If you need insurance right now, and have a pre-existing condition, unfortunately in a lot of cases it’s impossible or so expensive that it might as well be impossible. And we’re not talking about only cancer or major heart issues or other such deadly conditions - many manageable diseases such as diabetes and epilepsy put you in the “automatic denial” pool. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/700-health-insurance/543986/28 "2010-06-22T01:51:43Z")
It’s nice to have the input from the “I’m OK so fuck you” faction of the board. So insightful… ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/700-health-insurance/543986/29 "2010-06-22T02:01:50Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > 1. France just increased its retirement age. It is finally realizing that you can’t have a bunch of liberal douche entitlement programs forever. France also has huge permanent unemployment, massive immigration by poor people with its attendant cultural problems, and huge national debt. Useless retort. > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > 1. Sarkozy is wrong about how the US system works, as that quote shows (no US hospital demands a credit card before treating someone who’s collapsed on the sidewalk). That was not the point, and you know it. > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > 1. You quoted a liberal douche who is in favor of liberal douche policies. Congratulations. Must have been hard to find that one. Another useless retort. And a fallacy to boot. I know that you are a certified moron but you are batting 0 in related replies, nothing what you said deals with what I requested. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/700-health-insurance/543986/30 "2010-06-22T02:43:11Z")
Gigo, just stick to mindlessly posting links. You aren’t so good at the actual argumentation thing. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/700-health-insurance/543986/31 "2010-06-22T02:44:26Z")
Since when is Sarkozy liberal? That’s news to the French! I feel for you Dan. I am without health insurance due to a layoff. It was either the health insurance or the house that was going to take the hit. I did find some contract employment for a few months but couldn’t afford the health insurance because my contractor pay was too low for insurance that covered my pre-existing condition. I like contracting. But I now must try to find a regular employer instead of being an entrepreneur simply to get affordable health insurance. God forbid I get sick. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/700-health-insurance/543986/32 "2010-06-22T02:46:54Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Gigo, just stick to mindlessly posting links. You aren’t so good at the actual argumentation thing. Even \*\*carnut \*\*did notice that it is you who does not know what an argument or even a pertinent point is. And yes, everyone can notice that you are still avoiding dealing with my question like a coward. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/700-health-insurance/543986/33 "2010-06-22T02:53:43Z")
I avoided answering your question to save you further embarrassment. It’s a stupid question. The fact that the masses in Europe are not clamoring for a US-style system does not mean that UHC is better than a US-style system. Europe is having huge issues now related to bloated governments caused by huge entitlement programs (UHC being one of them). The actual facts show the economic problems entailed by bloated governments, so the input of the people in Europe isn’t necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/700-health-insurance/543986/34 "2010-06-22T02:58:06Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I avoided answering your question to save you further embarrassment. It’s a stupid question. The fact that the masses in Europe are not clamoring for a US-style system does not mean that UHC is better than a US-style system. Europe is having huge issues now related to bloated governments caused by huge entitlement programs (UHC being one of them). The actual facts show the economic problems entailed by bloated governments, so the input of the people in Europe isn’t necessary. Ever since I became politically aware in the late 1960s, I’ve noticed that there is a segment of U.S. politics that expects Europe to fail at any moment. I’m still waiting. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/700-health-insurance/543986/35 "2010-06-22T03:00:03Z")
Yeesh. Every time I mention that Europe is doing worse than the US, some idiot (usually Euphonious Polemic) asks why it hasn’t failed. I never said it would fail ever, much less imminently. It’s possible to do worse without ever failing. ---
**Author:** ![Staale\_Nordlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Staale\_Nordlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staale_Nordlie)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/700-health-insurance/543986/36 "2010-06-22T03:01:44Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > If you need insurance right now, and have a pre-existing condition, unfortunately in a lot of cases it’s impossible or so expensive that it might as well be impossible. I don’t believe that it’s ever “impossible”. For example, [Lloyd’s of London](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd's_of_London#Types_of_policies) will take some rather odd insurance “bets”. You could probably even use a bookie if you were willing to offer good odds. 🙂 I certainly _do_ believe that it can get expensive, but “I don’t want to pay the market price” is different from “I’m uninsurable”. Besides, TS already has insurance. He just wants to pay less. > [@Athena](#): > > And we’re not talking about only cancer or major heart issues or other such deadly conditions - many manageable diseases such as diabetes and epilepsy put you in the “automatic denial” pool. That’s not what a little googling tells me. What happens is that the pre-existing condition is not covered, or in other cases only covered after a wait, like you mentioned. (If you’re talking about policies created solely for people with no pre-existing conditions then yes, _obviously_ pre-existing conditions will mean automatic denial.) If someone is worried about a minor condition worsening then I don’t understand why there aren’t companies offering specific policies for that. Surely there’s a market for it? Or does some sort of government regulation prevent it perhaps? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/700-health-insurance/543986/37 "2010-06-22T03:06:04Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Yeesh. Every time I mention that Europe is doing worse than the US, some idiot (usually Euphonious Polemic) asks why it hasn’t failed. I never said it would fail ever, much less imminently. It’s possible to do worse without ever failing. Well, I guess our definition of “worse” varies. Big surprise there. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/700-health-insurance/543986/38 "2010-06-22T03:11:43Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I avoided answering your question to save you further embarrassment. I will let others to be the judge of that as you are so unreliable. > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > It’s a stupid question. The fact that the masses in Europe are not clamoring for a US-style system does not mean that UHC is better than a US-style system. Europe is having huge issues now related to bloated governments caused by huge entitlement programs (UHC being one of them). The actual facts show the economic problems entailed by bloated governments, so the input of the people in Europe isn’t necessary. Now that was a stupid thing to say. And \*\*Frank \*\*already explained, suffice to say that what Europeans want to do is to reform their systems, not to eliminate them or turn to the reprehensible way we are still doing it in America. Even the last holdouts in Europe, like Switzerland do not want to return the way it was before: [http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/012379.php](http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/012379.php) > [@](#): > > Last week, Frontline featured an excellent documentary talking about how other wealthy capitalistic societies have solved the problem of providing universal healthcare for their citizens. TR Reid, a veteran foreign correspondent for the Washington Post and frequent guest on NPR, explored the ways five countries have solved the problem of covering everyone’s healthcare without destroying their capitalistic societies. By examining the healthcare systems of Britain, Japan, Germany, Taiwan and Switzerland, Reid makes a convincing case that Americans too should be able to find a way to cover everyone and to rein in the exploding healthcare costs as well. > > Kevin captured the conclusion well: > > > [@](#): > > > > ``` > > These ideas aren't as foreign as they seem. If you're a U.S. veteran, your healthcare is like Britain. If you're a senior citizen on Medicare, you're Taiwan. If you're a worker who gets insurance from your employer, you're Germany. > > > > ``` > > What Reid says is that each of these countries came to the same set of policy goals to make universal healthcare work although they varied the ways they achieved these goals: > > 1. Insurance companies were forced to accept everyone > 2. All individuals were mandated to contribute (through taxes or having to buy insurance) > 3. Doctors and hospitals (and drug companies) had to accept fixed payments for care negotiated upfront > > Yet, for the citizens of these countries, none of these things were a problem because they all felt like their system worked well for them, their families and their country. In fact, they were all much happier with their systems than Americans are with ours. And they all would be horrified to hear that anyone could go bankrupt or die because they couldn’t get coverage. > > For me, the most telling story was that of Switzerland, where universal coverage was not achieved until **1994**. Before 1994, the healthcare system was much like ours is today. **But then in 1994, citizens of Switzerland were allowed to vote on a referendum requiring universal coverage using private insurance companies, mandating that all individuals buy their insurance with the poor being covered by the government and with regulating the prices that could be charged. This referendum was hotly contested with the conservatives predicting doom and the entrenched interests spending a huge war chest to defeat it. It won by the very narrowest of margins, just barely over 50%. But now that it has been in place for over a decade, even the most conservative, die-hard capitalists believe that healthcare is a right and that their country is better because they cover everyone. They could not imagine going back to the way it was before**. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/700-health-insurance/543986/39 "2010-06-22T03:16:48Z")
> [@Staale\_Nordlie](#): > > I certainly _do_ believe that it can get expensive, but “I don’t want to pay the market price” is different from “I’m uninsurable”. “I can’t pay the market price,” is effectively the same as “I’m uninsurable.” A worker who collects the U.S. minimum wage makes–before taxes–$1257 a month. Take $700 a month out of that, and explain to me how that worker should be able to afford health insurance. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/700-health-insurance/543986/40 "2010-06-22T04:21:12Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Happy Birthday to me. My health insurance was raised to over $700 a month. Consider yourself lucky. My COBRA ends in September, and the best I have found is $1325 per month, for one person. By jacking up the deductible and co-insurance to $9000 per year and excluding preexisting conditions, mental health and a bunch of other restrictions, the price came down to $763. I am only looking for catastrophic insurance, but if I have an emergency hospitalization and have to pay over $18,000 per year in premiums, copays and coinsurance, that is a catastrophy to me, and I will be bankrupt. Such a policy does me no good at all; it might as well be $18 million a year. So, come September, I will start rolling the dice, and if it comes up snake eyes at some point in the future, I will become a burden on society, just one more dead beat who can’t pay his hospital bill. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/700-health-insurance/543986.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/700-health-insurance/543986.md?page=3)