# 787 first flight. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 15, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/787-first-flight/521387 "2009-12-15T18:28:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/787-first-flight/521387/21 "2009-12-16T06:48:28Z")
Am I the only one wishing to have been in one of the T-33s? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/787-first-flight/521387/22 "2009-12-16T07:25:07Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > …I actually _teared up_ when the thing took off! Part of it was the sheer love of our technological age, part of it was hearing the reactions from the crowd, and part of it was a “COOL!” factor. > > Thanks for that link. My favorite part comes around 5:20, when they show the plane from behind. The way the wings gently curve upwards, so beautiful! It was pretty cool wasn’t it? Must be amazing to work for so long on something like that and then see it fly for the first time. The wings do seem to curve up significantly more than other airliners. **Johnny** , I’m always wishing I was in a T-33. I was interested to hear the Captain had only 6000 hours. That’d be some quality time though, I bet he’s got more experience out of those 6000 hours than several 20,000 hour airline pilots combined. ---
**Author:** ![Improvisor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/50afbb/32.png) [@Improvisor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Improvisor)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/787-first-flight/521387/23 "2009-12-16T07:38:05Z")
[quote=“1920s Style “Death Ray”, post:22, topic:521387”] I was interested to hear the Captain had only 6000 hours. That’d be some quality time though, I bet he’s got more experience out of those 6000 hours than several 20,000 hour airline pilots combined. [/QUOTE] Article on the test pilot: > **[The Seattle Times | Local news, sports, business, politics, entertainment,...](https://www.seattletimes.com)** > > Local news, sports, business, politics, entertainment, travel, restaurants and opinion for Seattle and the Pacific Northwest. An interesting bit from that article is that they are wearing parachutes and the plane is rigged so they can blow out the back doors to bail out. And an article on some of the tests they will do: > **[The Seattle Times | Local news, sports, business, politics, entertainment,...](https://www.seattletimes.com)** > > Local news, sports, business, politics, entertainment, travel, restaurants and opinion for Seattle and the Pacific Northwest. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/787-first-flight/521387/24 "2009-12-16T07:41:44Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > And after the 7Z7? > > Hey, Eckhart, think about the future! Who you been spending your nights with? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/787-first-flight/521387/25 "2009-12-16T07:46:08Z")
> [@cerberus](#): > > Those engines are huge. But there’s only two of them. Don’t like that. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/787-first-flight/521387/26 "2009-12-16T21:05:21Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > But there’s only two of them. Don’t like that. The 787 will be [ETOPS](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETOPS) rated, which essentially means that it is capable of flying on just one engine, and can safely make it to an airport even if an engine fails while in the middle of the ocean. Part of the 787 test flights will involve _take offs_ on just one engine. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/787-first-flight/521387/27 "2009-12-16T21:20:31Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > But there’s only two of them. Don’t like that. The fewer the engines you have, the less frequent will be your engine failures. ---
**Author:** ![BrandonR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BrandonR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrandonR)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/787-first-flight/521387/28 "2009-12-16T21:54:32Z")
> [@thirdname](#): > > I’d be a little nervous flying on a carbon-fiber airplane. I’ve watched enough F1 races to know that when carbon-fiber parts break, they shatter instead of buckling. They had to add steel cables to hold the wheels on when the carbon-fiber suspensions break. Aluminum parts that fatigue [don’t break gracefully](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Alohaairlinesdisaster.jpg) either. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/787-first-flight/521387/29 "2009-12-17T00:16:27Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The fewer the engines you have, the less frequent will be your engine failures. But you’ve got more backup engines. I’d rather a long-haul plane have four engines and be quite capable of flying with one than two engines and still be quite capable of flying on one. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/787-first-flight/521387/30 "2009-12-17T00:22:58Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > But you’ve got more backup engines. I’d rather a long-haul plane have four engines and be quite capable of flying with one than two engines and still be quite capable of flying on one. Old Joke Time. A couple of guys are on a trans-Pacific flight. Somewhere over the ocean the pilot got on the PA and said, ‘Ladies and gentlemen, we’ve had a problem with one of our engines, and we’ve had to shut it down. Nothing to worry about though, this plane is perfectly capable of flying on three engines. However, our arrival at LAX will be delayed by about 30 minutes.’ The two men shared disappointed looks. In a little while, the pilot came back on the PA and informed the passengers that they had to shut down a second engine; but not to worry, the aircraft will fly perfectly well on two. But the arrival at LAX would be delayed by an additional 45 minutes. The two men looked at each other with exasperation. Wouldn’t you know it? The pilot informed the passengers that a third engine had to be shut down. Of course the aircraft would still fly, but they would be two hours late. One man looked at the other and says, ‘If that last engine goes, we’ll be up here all day!’ ---
**Author:** ![Tully\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7ab992/32.png) [@Tully\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tully_Mars)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/787-first-flight/521387/31 "2009-12-17T00:32:47Z")
I tip my hat to all of the Boeing engineers involved in the long proces of getting that plane off that ground. I know it’s been a long, difficult journey. I wish them a quick, successful flight test program so that they can get it into production. In my opinion, they took the correct course in developing a lighter, more efficient jet that the airlines need right now instead of trying to develop the next biggest behemoth. If so, they should blow Airbus away. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/787-first-flight/521387/32 "2009-12-17T00:40:02Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I’d rather a long-haul plane have four engines and be quite capable of flying with one than two engines and still be quite capable of flying on one. But aircraft with 4 engines often can’t fly on one. There’s significant drag associated with 3 failed engines, and it’s going to be seriously wasteful (in terms of weight, fuel burn and cost) to provide a plane with four times the power it really needs. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/787-first-flight/521387/33 "2009-12-17T00:40:37Z")
> [@thirdname](#): > > I’d be a little nervous flying on a carbon-fiber airplane. I’ve watched enough F1 races to know that when carbon-fiber parts break, they shatter instead of buckling. They had to add steel cables to hold the wheels on when the carbon-fiber suspensions break. I’ve flown a number of carbon-fiber airplanes now (though none as big as the Boeing in question). I don’t have significant qualms about it. Over the past 3-4 decades more and more carbon fiber components have been added to various aircraft, the technology is maturing rapidly. While there have been some failures that can also be said of metal, fiberglass, wood, cloth… > [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > As fond as I am of Boeing planes, it might be nice if some of them looked a little… different? I mean, the 787 looks very much like the 767 and 777, albeit with a greater wingspan. Why mess with a successful design? Yes, I’m sure there are other basic shapes to use, but the one they have do pretty well and passenger aircraft design is rather conservative in many ways. > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Am I the only one wishing to have been in one of the T-33s? Of course not. (ME! ME! ME!) > [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > But you’ve got more backup engines. I’d rather a long-haul plane have four engines and be quite capable of flying with one than two engines and still be quite capable of flying on one. There are at least two instances of airliners losing both engines and still landing safely, including one that lost power over the Atlantic. Having one engine, compared to that, is luxury. They have taken the worries of people such as yourself into account. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/787-first-flight/521387/34 "2009-12-17T01:16:29Z")
> [@BrandonR](#): > > Aluminum parts that fatigue [don’t break gracefully](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Alohaairlinesdisaster.jpg) either. To be fair, though, fatigue, creep and corrosion are a hell of a lot easier to detect on aluminum/metals than they are in composite structures. It is very difficult to detect delamination and disbonding and it has caused problems for aircraft as well, such as the rudder loss on the [Air Transat A310](http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/aviation/2005/a05f0047/a05f0047_sec3.asp#a3) out of [Varadero in 2005.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Transat_Flight_961) There is a lot left to learn about composites, but they really are a better material than aluminum for many reasons and are the future of airframes. > [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > But you’ve got more backup engines. I’d rather a long-haul plane have four engines and be quite capable of flying with one than two engines and still be quite capable of flying on one. I’m not sure a 4-engined plane needs to be certified to be able to fly with only one engine - I think they need to show that they can take-off/land and fly for X amount of time on three. Can anyone confirm this? I think a B747 on one engine would be coming down pretty fast, although still under better control than without engines! ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/787-first-flight/521387/35 "2009-12-17T01:25:48Z")
Not necessarily - asymmetrical thrust from just one engine on a normally multi-engine airplane can actually make maintaining a straight flight path more difficult than when you have balanced thrust. Or even no thrust at all, which is more balanced than just one operating engine on a four engine aircraft. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/787-first-flight/521387/36 "2009-12-17T02:18:12Z")
I was thinking more about having full control of flight surfaces/all onboard systems rather than only emergency/backup systems run from the batteries, but of course asymmetrical thrust could cause significant control problems! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/787-first-flight/521387/37 "2009-12-17T02:32:24Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > 7Γ7, 7Δ7, 7Θ7, etc. Of course they’ll need to skip the letters that look like Latin letters. Then there’s Cyrillic, Hebrew, Arabic, and a whole bunch of others. All they have to do is go sequentially through the Unicode character set. 7A7, 7B7,… 7Ĝ7, 7Ĥ7,… 7Ű7, 7Ų7, 7Ŵ7,… 7Ƣ7, 7ƪ7, 7ƻ7, 7ɷ7, 7ʞ7,… 7Ж7… 7Մ7… 7ઔ7… 7న7… 7䘺7, 7䘻7, 7䘼7,… why in Latin Extended B and the IPA extensions alone there are dozens of characters! ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/787-first-flight/521387/38 "2009-12-17T03:19:47Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Am I the only one wishing to have been in one of the T-33s? I wanted to be in the T-38 out front scouting the weather. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/787-first-flight/521387/39 "2009-12-17T03:36:31Z")
I’d sell your soul for at T-38. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/787-first-flight/521387/40 "2009-12-17T03:56:03Z")
I’ve tried. Best offer I got was for a 152 with a timed-out engine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/787-first-flight/521387.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/787-first-flight/521387.md?page=3)