# 787 first flight. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 15, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/787-first-flight/521387 "2009-12-15T18:28:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/787-first-flight/521387/81 "2009-12-19T13:23:01Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Oh, I don’t disagree with you. I just think their point was that if Fred Bloggs thought he could wander down to his local aero club, rack up a few hours in a Cessna, then buy a MiG-21 via Mail-order from Russia, strap himself in, and then light the afterburners, he had another thing coming. Yeah, I wasn’t meaning to disagreeing with you either ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/787-first-flight/521387/82 "2009-12-19T16:41:16Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Airman’s Information Manual. > > Although I think it may be called Aeronautical Information Manual now. Ah, thank you! I’ve found the Transport Canada Aeronautical Information Manual (TC AIM). Turns out I had heard of it, but just didn’t recognize it in the context in this thread. Too many abbreviations in this damn industry! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/787-first-flight/521387/83 "2009-12-21T15:04:40Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > So now I’ve watched the video, and the plane looks like pretty much every other Boeing, so what’s so special about this plane? It didn’t look all that big, so I’m guessing there is some major increase in operating efficiency? It is made primarily from graphite-fiber composites, not aluminum, and is therefore much lighter. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/787-first-flight/521387/84 "2009-12-21T15:39:46Z")
[quote=“1920s Style “Death Ray”, post:76, topic:521387”] It’s a replacement for the B767 and is supposed to be 20% more efficient. [/QUOTE] Isn’t the 767 the newest plane they have – well, second newest now? Don’t they need a replacement for the 737 or 747? Which reminds me – are there still any 707s or 727s in service? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/787-first-flight/521387/85 "2009-12-21T16:51:43Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Isn’t the 767 the newest plane they have – well, second newest now? Don’t they need a replacement for the 737 or 747? The 757 and 767 were developed pretty much together, but the 767 entered service a few months earlier. So, strictly speaking, it’s the third newest. > [@](#): > > Which reminds me – are there still any 707s or 727s in service? Definitions get kinda hazy at the fringes. Wikipedia says there were 63 707’s in commercial use as of August 2007 (mostly in Africa, it looks like), and there are military variants still in service. Also according to Wikipedia, there were 442 727’s in service as of August 2009, 77 with FedEx, although it also says they’re phasing them out. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/787-first-flight/521387/86 "2009-12-21T17:33:01Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Isn’t the 767 the newest plane they have – well, second newest now? No, the 777. > [@](#): > > Don’t they need a replacement for the 737 or 747? The 747-400 replacement is the 747-8, which is a lot more different than it might appear. They haven’t gotten serious about a 737 replacement yet, but it’s gone through a lot of evolution in its history too. > [@](#): > > Which reminds me – are there still any 707s or 727s in service? Plenty, just not many in North America. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/787-first-flight/521387/87 "2009-12-21T19:50:45Z")
So is it correct that the 787 is seen as a replacement for the 767? Are they still making the 767? Do they have anything in the pipeline to replace the REALLY old designs? ---
**Author:** ![Improvisor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/50afbb/32.png) [@Improvisor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Improvisor)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/787-first-flight/521387/88 "2009-12-21T20:52:25Z")
It is not seen as a replacement. Just a new model that services a different type of need. I don’t believe there is any movement right now to stop selling the 767. In general, Boeing doesn’t stop selling a type of plane until demand declines for them from the carriers. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/787-first-flight/521387/89 "2009-12-21T20:55:14Z")
I know First Air, an airline which serves Nunavut, Nunavik and the NWT, still flies two 727’s since I watched them a lot taking off from Dorval this summer. According to the [wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Air), they own a 727-233, which is one of two remaining combis in the world and the last passenger 727-200 in North America, as well as a 727-233F freighter. Both are due to be phased out in 2010 though. I suspect Boeing has something in the pipelines to replace everything they have, it’s just that most of it will never see the light of day! I had the opportunity to visit Bombardier’s design centre and see a simple timeline of design milestones for all sorts of planes designed to either replace existing ones or to compete in some market for which they didn’t yet have an aircraft. There wasn’t much detail though - it was just a generic number with info like “Business jet, 3-5 passengers” and a unitless bar indicating “design”. Basically enough info to show visitors that yes, the people who work here are doing something, but we can’t tell you what it is! ---
**Author:** ![UncleNito](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/7cd45c/32.png) [@UncleNito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleNito)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/787-first-flight/521387/90 "2009-12-22T02:32:20Z")
I’m pretty sure the 747-400 is the oldest design still in production, and I’m not even sure they’re still making them. The 3rd-generation 737s (-600 through -900) have different avionics, engines, and wings than the second-gen (-300 through -500) and even less in common with the first gen. I’m also fairly sure the only 767 still in production, if any, is the -400, which has a longer fuselage than the older ones and a 777-style flight deck. So there aren’t any “really old designs,” aside from the fact that low wing/twin wing-mounted engines/standard tail has been the standard for a generation or so. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/787-first-flight/521387/91 "2009-12-22T03:19:25Z")
I think the 747-400 production run has ended in order to build the 747-8, which is scheduled to enter service in 2010-2011. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/787-first-flight/521387.md?page=4)