# 8/7 Justice League: For the Man Who Has Everything **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 7, 2004, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-7-justice-league-for-the-man-who-has-everything/258760 "2004-08-07T12:36:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Papermache\_Prince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f05b48/32.png) [@Papermache\_Prince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Papermache_Prince)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2004, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-7-justice-league-for-the-man-who-has-everything/258760/1 "2004-08-07T12:36:29Z")
A reminder - tonight at 8:30 is the first broadcast of the “For the Man Who Has Everything” episode of Justice League. ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2004, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-7-justice-league-for-the-man-who-has-everything/258760/2 "2004-08-07T14:09:24Z")
A pox on you and your ilk! [sub]Stupid Teletoon, not carrying Justice League, grumble grumble…[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Papermache\_Prince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f05b48/32.png) [@Papermache\_Prince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Papermache_Prince)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2004, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-7-justice-league-for-the-man-who-has-everything/258760/3 "2004-08-07T14:50:18Z")
Unfortunately the Canadian laws re: importing non-native plant species prevent me from sending you a cutting of the Black Mercy I have in my greenhouse. Then you could watch _Justice League_ all the time. ---
**Author:** ![SuperNova](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@SuperNova](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuperNova)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-7-justice-league-for-the-man-who-has-everything/258760/4 "2004-08-08T02:34:52Z")
Just caught this! Had to tape it, and just finished watching. It was entertaining. Far better than the first episode, in my opinion. Not having read the source material, I don’t know how accurate it was to that. But it’s nice to see character development for Superman, which seems so rare. Hopefully a sign of things to come in JLU. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-7-justice-league-for-the-man-who-has-everything/258760/5 "2004-08-08T02:39:13Z")
I was moderately surprised at Supe’s rage towards the end of the episode, and surprised again by the obvious damage he did to the bad guy. Being surprised is a good thing. I wish mainstream cartoons did it more often. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-7-justice-league-for-the-man-who-has-everything/258760/6 "2004-08-08T03:34:30Z")
It was a pretty accurate adaptation of the original story by Alan Moore (known as THE BEST writer in comics) and Dave Gibbons, from Superman Annual #11 from the early '80s. The story is usually referred to as one of the greatest Superman stories of all time, and probably THE greatest “Big Three” (Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman) story of all time. Nobody can even come close to Alan Moore at the top of his game. Of course the writer who adapted the story, J.M. DeMatteis, is no slouch either. He is best known for co-writing Justice League International in the '80s, an almost sitcom-like look at superheroes that blended action, humor, and tons of character development. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-7-justice-league-for-the-man-who-has-everything/258760/7 "2004-08-08T03:53:37Z")
Well, my buddy’s cable was out… so it looks Like I won’t see it for awhile. I want to know if they kept the following Mongul lines from the comic book story intact: (Addressing Batman) “If you don’t already know my name, you’re not worthy of an introduction. I’m the new manager around here.” (Addressing Wonder Woman and Batman) “Which of you would it be polite to kill first?” (Addrssing Wonder Woman) “You’re certainly lasting longer than I anticipated. You’re a female, I think. You wouldn’t happen to be the Kryptonian’s mate by any chance?” “Try the plasma disrupter. It’s smaller. More of a female’s weapon.” Also, did Robin make it in the story or was his part deferred to Batman? ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-7-justice-league-for-the-man-who-has-everything/258760/8 "2004-08-08T04:28:51Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > (Addressing Batman) “If you don’t already know my name, you’re not worthy of an introduction. I’m the new manager around here.” > > (Addressing Wonder Woman and Batman) “Which of you would it be polite to kill first?” > > (Addrssing Wonder Woman) “You’re certainly lasting longer than I anticipated. You’re a female, I think. You wouldn’t happen to be the Kryptonian’s mate by any chance?” > > “Try the plasma disrupter. It’s smaller. More of a female’s weapon.” No (Batman already knew who he was), no (but a modified version was included), no and yes. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-7-justice-league-for-the-man-who-has-everything/258760/9 "2004-08-08T04:34:30Z")
Aw, shoot. My favorite line was struck. Well, **Otto** , was Robin in it? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-7-justice-league-for-the-man-who-has-everything/258760/10 "2004-08-08T04:39:28Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > Aw, shoot. My favorite line was struck. Well, **Otto** , was Robin in it? No - most likely it was to avoid controversy over which Robin was which when and to not step on the toes of Teen Titans. Plus, the whole point of doing this story was to concentrate on Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman. But personally, I didn’t miss his presence. ---
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-7-justice-league-for-the-man-who-has-everything/258760/11 "2004-08-08T04:59:27Z")
> [@](#): > > It was a pretty accurate adaptation of the original story by Alan Moore (known as THE BEST writer in comics) and Dave Gibbons, from Superman Annual #11 from the early '80s. The story is usually referred to as one of the greatest Superman stories of all time, and probably THE greatest “Big Three” (Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman) story of all time. Nobody can even come close to Alan Moore at the top of his game. It’s certainly considered one of the top Superman stories of all time, but _the_ best Superman and big three story? Nah. The best Superman story is _Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow_ (also by Alan Moore, based on a story idea from Julius Shwartz) from Superman 423 and Action 483, currently available in trade paperback for about $5. I think the general concensus is that the best Big Three story is _The Dark Knight Returns_ by Frank Miller, which, along with Moore’s _Watchmen_, revolutionized DC comics in the mid 80’s. For anyone who wants to read the original, _For the Man Who Has Everything_ is available in _The DC Universe Stories of Alan Moore_, which collects his one shots and backup stories from a variety of DC comics, with not a dud in the bunch. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-7-justice-league-for-the-man-who-has-everything/258760/12 "2004-08-08T05:08:08Z")
**Number Six.** C’mon. Big Three refers to the inclusion of Wonder Woman, Batman and Superman in a single story, right? Well, Wonder Woman doesn’t appear in the original Dark Knight Returns at all (Selina Kyle in WW’s costume), and both she and Batman are teeny tiny little incidental background figures in like, four panels the second half of “Whatever Happened To The Man Of Tomorrow?” No. The best Big Three story is the one JLU adapted, and the story editors said as much when they suggested it. ---
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-7-justice-league-for-the-man-who-has-everything/258760/13 "2004-08-08T07:29:11Z")
Askia: It wasn’t clear in the post to which I responded that “Big Three” means all of them must be present; I assumed, obviously incorrectly, that it referred to stories involving any of those three characters. I stand corrected. Using your definition, I’d have to agree that the general concensus is that “For the Man Who Has Everything” is the best, though my personal favorite that involves all three characters in some significant role is _A League of One_. [hijack]I don’t really buy the idea that Wonder Woman is one of the “Big Three” in anything but name. I realize that DC has been trying to position her that way for quite some time, but it just isn’t working out that way. _Flash_ is consistently DC’s third best selling solo character (after all of the Superman and Batman titles), with Wonder Woman coming in at about the same sales levels as Green Lantern and Green Arrow. Really, DC has a Big Two (Superman/Batman), a few second tier characters (Flash, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, Green Arrow, maybe one or two more), and a raft of third tier characters they’d like to be more popular (Aquaman comes to mind as a prime example).[/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-7-justice-league-for-the-man-who-has-everything/258760/14 "2004-08-08T15:17:04Z")
A fantastic recent “Big Three” story (and yes, I should have clarified that it meant Supes, Bats, AND Wondy): Matt Wagner’s “Trinity,” now collected in a trade paperback. Wagner is one of those rare writer-artists who do both better than most people do one or the other. But “For the Man Who Has Everything” is still the best. And **Number Six** , I also have the TPB of “Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow,” signed by artist George Perez. Another Alan Moore classic! If you like it, you ought to try Moore’s Supreme, collected in two TPBs. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-7-justice-league-for-the-man-who-has-everything/258760/15 "2004-08-08T19:20:51Z")
Bwaha! A more faithful adaptation of an Alan Moore story, I have not seen. Basically, I think they left it as intact as they could, while fulfilling their two restrictions : suitable for children, half-hour format. Batman’s gift for Superman - a nice, new very funny idea. I mean, what else would Bruce get for anyone? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-7-justice-league-for-the-man-who-has-everything/258760/16 "2004-08-08T20:25:57Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#): > > A fantastic recent “Big Three” story (and yes, I should have clarified that it meant Supes, Bats, AND Wondy): Matt Wagner’s “Trinity,” now collected in a trade paperback. Wagner is one of those rare writer-artists who do both better than most people do one or the other. But “For the Man Who Has Everything” is still the best. > > And **Number Six** , I also have the TPB of “Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow,” signed by artist George Perez. Another Alan Moore classic! If you like it, you ought to try Moore’s Supreme, collected in two TPBs. Have them, and they are indeed wonderful. _Story of the Year_ is by far the better of the two, though I wouldn’t recommend them to anyone who doesn’t have a pretty good knowledge of silver age Superman and Justice League comics. For Moore’s best, though, I think _V for Vendetta_ is a bit better than _Watchmen_. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-7-justice-league-for-the-man-who-has-everything/258760/17 "2004-08-08T20:53:27Z")
**Number Six.** You know, I never thought about it before but I think I agree. _Vendetta’s_ an easier read, with a far more intriguing protagonist than the whole Watchmen cast combined (Well. Maybe not Rorschach.) It managed to surprise me more often and had a better ending. Plus, I love that one moment of whimsy, in the interlude when V gets on the piano and sings, “This Vicious Cabaret.” (I know the words by heart.) Despite a hard-to-swallow ending that, dispite it’s careful set-up, still manages to feel like it came out of left field, _Watchmen_ still blows me away for its complexity in both plot, layout and interrelated storylines, its sheer audaciousness, and its juxtaposing traditional comic book narrative with all those real world print media formats to flesh out that world’s history and character backstories. Nothing like _Watchmen’s_ depth had been attempted in a comic book format before and nothing has been done even nearly as successfully since. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-7-justice-league-for-the-man-who-has-everything/258760/18 "2004-08-10T01:53:46Z")
Number 6: > [@](#): > > I don’t really buy the idea that Wonder Woman is one of the “Big Three” in anything but name. Because she was the only super-hero (in addition to Batman and Superman) whose titles (not merely non-title features, like Aquaman or Green Arrow) ran continuously from the Golden Age through the Silver Age, without being dropped during the super-hero-genre-killing 1950’s. So the three of them tend to be lumped together as the juggernauts of the super-hero genre. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-7-justice-league-for-the-man-who-has-everything/258760/19 "2004-08-10T04:49:28Z")
Also, no variation of Marvel superheroines gives you one iconic enough to belong in Marvel’s version of the Big Three. That slot tends to be taken by the Avengers Captain America, Thor and Iron Man. ---
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-7-justice-league-for-the-man-who-has-everything/258760/20 "2004-08-10T06:30:29Z")
Yeah, Marvel falls way behind DC in terms of having strong female characters. DC has Wonder Woman, Birds of Prey, Batgirl, and currently Robin. Marvel’s most successful female-centered title, indeed the only female character with a solo title I can think of, is _Spider-Girl_, which is non-continuity. As for Marvel’s “Big Three”, I don’t think they have one. Like with DC, I see Marvel as having a Big Two–Spider-Man and the X-Men (or Wolverine if you prefer)–and a group of characters that have pretty consistently, at least since the end of the Lee/Kirby era, been second tier–Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, Daredevil, The Fantastic Four. If you consider importance of the characters within their respective fictional universes (rather than within their respective companies), I can see DC’s trinity and the characters Askia mentions as being good candidates, though on that basis I’d put The Fantastic Four near the top of Marvel’s, though I don’t know which of the three I’d drop off to make room. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-7-justice-league-for-the-man-who-has-everything/258760.md?page=2)