# 8 CIA Spooks Murdered in Afghanistan-Reaction? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 31, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208 "2009-12-31T18:26:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208/21 "2010-01-01T16:52:29Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Is this a joke in poor taste or are you preaching treason? Not everyone is American, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2010, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208/22 "2010-01-01T16:55:46Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Not everyone is American, you know. He sounds American and considering this is a forum registered in the USA I think it’s safe to assume unless told otherwise a member is American. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2010, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208/23 "2010-01-01T16:59:09Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > He sounds American and considering this is a forum registered in the USA I think it’s safe to assume unless told otherwise a member is American. He’s South African. I think we should invade them next. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2010, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208/24 "2010-01-01T17:00:42Z")
CIA agents are called SPOOKS? Really? That’s kind of creepy. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2010, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208/25 "2010-01-01T17:02:28Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > CIA agents are called SPOOKS? Really? That’s kind of creepy. Yeah, you’ve never heard that before? They’re not creepy because they’re called spooks, they’re called spooks because they’re creepy. Spies are creepy. They always have been. Some nice light bedtime reading: [Really real CIA mind-control experiments.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mkultra) ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208/26 "2010-01-01T17:08:48Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Yeah, you’ve never heard that before? They’re not creepy because they’re called spooks, they’re called spooks because they’re creepy. > > Spies are creepy. They always have been. > > Some nice light bedtime reading: [Really real CIA mind-control experiments.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mkultra) Well I meant it was creepy because spook is a slur for black people. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2010, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208/27 "2010-01-01T17:11:56Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Well I meant it was creepy because spook is a slur for black people. Well, it WAS a slur. These days, I suspect if you called a black guy a “spook” more people would think you meant that he was in intelligence than as a slur. Or maybe it’s just more common where you live. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2010, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208/28 "2010-01-01T17:15:10Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Well, it WAS a slur. These days, I suspect if you called a black guy a “spook” more people would think you meant that he was in intelligence than as a slur. Or maybe it’s just more common where you live. She lives in New York, and calling black people spooks is considered just as archaic here as it is in California. Sounds like the sort of thing people’s racist Grandmother’s will say when drunk at holiday parties. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208/29 "2010-01-01T17:16:16Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > He sounds American and considering this is a forum registered in the USA I think it’s safe to assume unless told otherwise a member is American. What does American text sound like? 😛 See the poster’s name in the upper left corner of each post? Try clicking on it. When you do, see the menu item labelled “view public profile”? Click on that. It’s not guaranteed that specific location information will be there, but it’s a good place to start. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2010, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208/30 "2010-01-01T17:17:40Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I was listening to the BBC report on this-the reaction of the local Afghan people was quite illuminating. Basically, most of them though the murders were justified, as the CIA had been plotting drone attacks upon muslims. > With this kind of reaction, WHY are we still in Afghanistan? What do you establish as “most”? Most Afghanis? Most Afghanis in the town where the incident occurred? (And is the town in a Pashtun region of the country or in some supposedly pro-U.S. portion?) Most Afghanis in the town where the incident occurred that happened to be interviewed by the BBC? Most Afghanis in the town where the incident occurred that happened to be interviewed by the BBC that happened to get their views aired by the BBC editor? Do we havbe anything resembling a legitimate poll that tells us what a majority of people in Afghanistan really believe regarding the Western troops that are there? When we stupidly pulled our resources out of Afghanistan to go play in Iraq, we abandoned a serious opportunity to sway the Afghan people to a more pro-Western attitude, allowing the Taliban to retrench and point out all our mistakes. (And since the Taliban has a strong support from the Pashtun tribes–a significant portion of the population–they were never some tiny percentage of the population, to begin with.) In order to recover from their war-ravaged economy, many of them turned to raising drug crops. We considered that a bad thing, (while not thinking it worthwhile to help them establish any other income between 2003 and 2008), and set out to destroy those crops. So, from the perspective of many of them, we appear to have no interest other than to keep them mired in poverty while forbidding them to select their own government. I hope that we can find a way to recover from the mess that we created, but I am not sure that it is now possible. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2010, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208/31 "2010-01-01T17:19:21Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > She lives in New York, and calling black people spooks is considered just as archaic here as it is in California. Sounds like the sort of thing people’s racist Grandmother’s will say when drunk at holiday parties. You KNOW where I LIVE?! 😃 I don’t hear spook all that often, but I guess it just pings my radar. Also I’m NOT well versed in CIA issues at all, so…yeah. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2010, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208/32 "2010-01-01T17:20:56Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > He sounds American and considering this is a forum registered in the USA I think it’s safe to assume unless told otherwise a member is American. How the fuck does someone “sound American” on the Internet? I always spell my colours and favours the right way… Anyway, _even if_ I were American (which comes under “no personal insults in GD” if you ask me), I’d have the same sentiment. And you need to look up the definition of treason. (Facetiously) wishing death on the members of that warmongering nest of bastards is not treason. It may be _sedition_, but not treason. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208/33 "2010-01-01T17:26:07Z")
ETA - treason is where I go kill Company men myself, or help you load a gun to do so, or hide you afterwards. Sedition is when I cheer you on without being affiliated to your organisation. ---
**Author:** ![Skylark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Skylark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skylark)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2010, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208/34 "2010-01-01T19:23:42Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > She lives in New York, and calling black people spooks is considered just as archaic here as it is in California. Sounds like the sort of thing people’s racist Grandmother’s will say when drunk at holiday parties. Reminds me of a thread we had here once on Brazil Nuts. Wasn’t one of the big arguments against Iraq was it drew away resources and attention from Afghanistan, the “real” fight, the fight that mattered, the one that was justified in the eyes of the international community? When did that 180 happen? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208/35 "2010-01-01T20:23:19Z")
> [@Skylark](#): > > When did that 180 happen? What is your exact question? When did we turn our back on Afghanistan? Just about the moment that GWB decided that the flight of Omar justified telling the Joint Chiefs, over their objections, to go invade Iraq, depleting the resources needed to help the Afghan people recover from 20+ years of invasion, civil war. and despotic minority rule. ---
**Author:** ![Klaatu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Klaatu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klaatu)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208/36 "2010-01-02T08:21:30Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > What is your exact question? > > When did we turn our back on Afghanistan? Just about the moment that GWB decided that the flight of Omar justified telling the Joint Chiefs, over their objections, to go invade Iraq, depleting the resources needed to help the Afghan people recover from 20+ years of invasion, civil war. and despotic minority rule. Come on Tom, we did not go into Afghanistan to help the people recover from “20+ years of invasion, civil war. and despotic minority rule”. The Soviets already tried that. 😉 We went to Afghanistan after 911 solely to find Bin-Laden et al. However, I will grant you that we are now in for a heap of “nation building”. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208/37 "2010-01-02T13:39:16Z")
GWB was very up front about his principled opposition to “nation building” as always the wrong thing to do, (except where he decided to reverse himself in order to go mess up Iraq), but I still want to know what the “180” was. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208/38 "2010-01-02T19:04:07Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > I’m not going to get into the semantics of “murder” vs. “act of war”, but I’m not sure what the OP expects to get out of this thread. > > Why would it surprise anyone that the death of employees of a occupying power’s spy agency would get little sympathy from the local population? Is the Taliban hiding in Afghanistan and killing people in Pakistan an invading force or is the Taliban hiding in Pakistan and killing people in Afghanistan an invading force? I get them confused. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208/39 "2010-01-02T20:41:53Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Is the Taliban hiding in Afghanistan and killing people in Pakistan an invading force or is the Taliban hiding in Pakistan and killing people in Afghanistan an invading force? I get them confused. Sorry, I have no clue what your point is or what it has to do with anything I said. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208/40 "2010-01-03T02:45:42Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Sorry, I have no clue what your point is or what it has to do with anything I said. The Taliban is as much an invading force as NATO. The difference is we build schools, educate women and have attempted to at least give them the ability to choose their leaders. The Taliban represent the polar opposite of this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208.md?page=3)