# 8 CIA Spooks Murdered in Afghanistan-Reaction? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 31, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208 "2009-12-31T18:26:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208/61 "2010-01-05T12:20:18Z")
I like the free uniforms. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208/62 "2010-01-05T12:58:58Z")
šŸ˜ƒ Canā€™t argue with that! ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208/63 "2010-01-05T13:48:55Z")
> [@wmfellows](#): > > Your fantasy view of Afghanistan has fuck all to do with the realities, and the pretension that Karzai is anything but an American cut-out is merely egregious self-deception. uh huh. Thanks for your insight but I have friends who served and are serving in Afghanistan so Iā€™m going to listen to them before I listen to some arrogant fuck on the internet (or you). ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208/64 "2010-01-05T13:50:32Z")
Well, the guy who blew himself up (taking 7 CIA personnel with him), isnow known to have been a double agent. The fact that he was let in to a secure base, without a body search, speaks reams about the stupidity of the CIA. Of course, they have a great traditin of this (Bay of Pigs, Vietnam, Cambodia, WMD, etc.) I hope Obama realizes what is actually going on in Afghanistan ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208/65 "2010-01-05T13:56:59Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Well, the guy who blew himself up (taking 7 CIA personnel with him), isnow known to have been a double agent. The fact that he was let in to a secure base, without a body search, speaks reams about the stupidity of the CIA. Of course, they have a great traditin of this (Bay of Pigs, Vietnam, Cambodia, WMD, etc.) > I hope Obama realizes what is actually going on in Afghanistan One thing Iā€™d heard is that the CIA doesnā€™t generally frisk its assets as part of trying to engender the relationship. They want them to feel trusted. Iā€™m sure (if what I heard is accurate) that they have that policy under review. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208/66 "2010-01-05T14:03:42Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > uh huh. Thanks for your insight but I have friends who served and are serving in Afghanistan so Iā€™m going to listen to them before I listen to some arrogant fuck on the internet (or you). Youā€™d take the political opinions of random low level soldiers (I assume) you happen to know over numerous cites? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208/67 "2010-01-05T14:26:34Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Youā€™d take the political opinions of random low level soldiers (I assume) you happen to know over numerous cites? You would assume wrong. My friends are of retirement age. If you look at my earlier post youā€™ll understand I do not think Afghanistan is a nice place. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208/68 "2010-01-05T16:31:01Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > uh huh. Thanks for your insight but I have friends who served and are serving in Afghanistan so Iā€™m going to listen to them before I listen to some arrogant fuck on the internet (or you). First, if you want to whack me, just do it straight out. Second, your friends personal experiences of course say fuck all about your claims regarding Karzaiā€™s positioning - it is an objective fact he was selected by the Americans after they toppled the Taleban regime, it is clear that the Americans - and allies of course - have poured relatively substantial resources to back his regime over other choices, it is an objective fact that international observers found (in Karzai controlled areas, e.g.) substantial vote fraud in his favour, and it is widely reported in respected sources such as Financial Times, Economist, Times (London) - of impeccable non-Left character - that the Americans twisted the arms of the opposition to knuckle under and not contest Karzaiā€™s ā€œwin.ā€ Now, you doubtless prefer the Hollywood narrative of the plucky freedom loving Afghan overcoming dangers to vote for the ā€œRight Guyā€ but the objective facts say something very different - and blaming the Karzai corruption etc on the Afghans alone is pure bollocks. The American fingerprints are all over this, fingerprints quite clear really, one need not get into wild conspiracy mongering. Now, those fingerprints are very understandable and I donā€™t know that there is anything different the US can do - other than Afghanise the conflict, but engaging in fantasy analysis is certainly going to get you even more fucked than you already are. You already made that mistake in Iraq (and Vietnam as well). One would think some lessons might be learned. Or maybe fantasy is more comfortable. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208/69 "2010-01-05T19:30:15Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > uh huh. Thanks for your insight but I have friends who served and are serving in Afghanistan so Iā€™m going to listen to them before I listen to some arrogant fuck on the internet (or you). Those parentheses donā€™t quite cover your ass the way you hoped they would. Knock it off. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208/70 "2010-01-05T19:33:46Z")
> [@wmfellows](#): > > First, if you want to whack me, just do it straight out. If you want to duke it out in the **Pit** , then just open a **Pit** thread, donā€™t encourage more of that behavior, here. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208/71 "2010-01-06T02:50:15Z")
About two minutes ago, Maddow announced that apparently two of the persons killed in the suicide attack that is the subject of this thread were not CIA but employees of Xe, the company formerly known as Blackwater. Helping distribute aid funds for schools, no doubt. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208/72 "2010-01-06T06:57:24Z")
Well, I feel even less bad about the death of mercs than I do of spooks, who (at least theoretically) have loyalty to a nation rather than just a paycheck as an additional excuse. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208/73 "2010-01-06T07:16:41Z")
I read about Eric Prince and Blackwater and I canā€™t make up my mind. Steven King or Tom Clancy? Did he maybe have a really creepy governess? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2010, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208/74 "2010-01-06T07:33:40Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I read about Eric Prince and Blackwater and I canā€™t make up my mind. Steven King or Tom Clancy? Did he maybe have a really creepy governess? Robert Ludlum ---
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208/75 "2010-01-07T06:18:22Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Sorry, no, Karzai is not Americaā€™s choice. He was voted in by his countryman. He is not looked at fondly by America because of his corrupt connections. The reality of Afghanistan is that it is a thoroughly corrupt nation that has never known a stable government. The population is poorly educated and the economy is agricultural in description only. For this country to succeed there has to be an educated populace and an infrastructure to support them. Do you think that thereā€™s any chance that weā€™ll have the national will to stay there long enough to create an educated populace with commensurate infrastructure? The current long-term aim of us being there is to build up the government and institutions of Afghanistan to somewhere near the level of Pakistan, which youā€™ll remember is the country where Osama bin Laden currently lives. Really, whatā€™s the point? Even if we do make a muti-generational/trillion dollar committment to rebuilding Afghanistan up to a western-friendly country with an infrastructure level similar to Pakistan thereā€™ll be no shortage of unstable countries that Islamic radicals can hang out in. Yemen is the latest, Chad isnā€™t far behind, thereā€™s always Somalia and a whole bunch of other potential failed states over the next decade or two. And itā€™s also worth noting that neither Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen or similar will ever be as western-friendly or as well-governed as Hamburg, Germany, where the 9/11 attacks were actually planned. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-cia-spooks-murdered-in-afghanistan-reaction/523208.md?page=3)