# 8 UN workers killed, as Afghans protest US pastor's Quran-burning - Hope Pastor Jones is happy now **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 1, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809 "2011-04-01T16:08:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/101 "2011-04-02T01:48:40Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Who’s minimizing anything? They thought the U.S. would capitulate and give them everything they wanted if they crashed four airplanes and killed some people. They didn’t even expect a counterattack. It was a stupid theory and it was very wrong, which is why a lot of these people are dead now and most of the rest are in hiding. That’s not where they thought they were going to be right now. What do you think their plan was? What do you think they expected to be the outcome. I’ve read that they were surprised about us going to Afghanistan and Iraq. But I also read that they were surprised the towers fell the way they did. I think their goal was simply to do damage and kill people, as an act of terror. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/102 "2011-04-02T01:58:34Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > What do you think their plan was? What do you think they expected to be the outcome. That the U.S. would do what the wanted, which was pull its troops out of the Middle East and stop supporting Israel, and leave them alone so they could continue spreading their brand of Islam in their part of the world. Bin Laden explained all this. In that video of him taken on 9/11/01 he says he thought the towers were going to fall down (although I guess he could’ve been bragging) and that some of his colleagues didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/103 "2011-04-02T02:17:12Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Who gives a shit if it’s a YMCA for Muslims instead of Christians? No matter what you do with it, it’s a YMCA. How about this: for every terrorist attack plotted at this community center, I owe you $1. Well, technically it’d be a YMMA, wouldn’t it? There was a recent thread about someone stealing a Communion wafer and desecrating it. Many of the people here who were defending THAT action are now condemning Jones’s actions. Sauce for the goose, maybe? The guy was a shithead, yes. But the reaction of extremists was their own reaction. If it weren’t this, it would be something else. Fuck them. ---
**Author:** ![Rotlla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/278dde/32.png) [@Rotlla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rotlla)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/104 "2011-04-02T02:33:55Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > I also don’t understand the constant references to his First Amendment rights. The Constitution doesn’t shield us from moral responsibility for our actions. TREASON. (I am trying to understand the Doper viewpoint. I’m pretty sure I’ve figured out this aspect.) ---
**Author:** ![Rotlla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/278dde/32.png) [@Rotlla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rotlla)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/105 "2011-04-02T02:37:33Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Most terrorist attacks in the EU last year were committed by left wing groups, not right wing ones. Given that you haven’t managed to come up with a single example, it’s pretty fair to say “most” actually means “not a single one”. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Rotlla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/278dde/32.png) [@Rotlla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rotlla)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/106 "2011-04-02T02:39:08Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Outreach, my ass. It was a thumb in the eye. (Whether they should be allowed to build it is a different discussion.) I agree. I feel horrible pains when I think about the fact that religious freedom in my country applies to Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/107 "2011-04-02T02:41:12Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > So fill in the blank for me: you don’t burn the Quran to piss off Muslims, you do it because \_\_\_\_\_. Simple: …you do it because it gets you a lot of cheap and easy press and attention. (and probably donations from a whole lot of wingnuts) ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/108 "2011-04-02T02:50:10Z")
Religious freaks – Christian, Muslim, whatever. Too bad they hurt innocent people. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/109 "2011-04-02T03:31:06Z")
> [@Rotlla](#): > > I agree. I feel horrible pains when I think about the fact that religious freedom in my country applies to Muslims. Really, now? I feel great pride that the fact is that in the United States religious freedom applies to Muslims. If it does not apply to Muslims, then it does not apply to anyone. And if you think that it’s a bad thing that Muslims have religious freedom, then you are a bigot. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/110 "2011-04-02T03:34:18Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Outreach, my ass. Yes, it was an outreach. > [@](#): > > It was a thumb in the eye. Only the bigots see it as a “thumb in the eye.” Come to think of it, you really showed your prejudice on that issue not so long ago. > [@](#): > > (Whether they should be allowed to build it is a different discussion.) That would be the discussion where you showed your bigotry and complete unconcern with what rational people refer to as _fact_. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/111 "2011-04-02T03:34:55Z")
> [@Rotlla](#): > > I agree. I feel horrible pains when I think about the fact that religious freedom in my country applies to Muslims. Er, why? Why shouldn’t we have religious freedom the same as anybody else. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/112 "2011-04-02T03:36:32Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Really, now? I feel great pride that the fact is that in the United States religious freedom applies to Muslims. If it does not apply to Muslims, then it does not apply to anyone. > > And if you think that it’s a bad thing that Muslims have religious freedom, then you are a bigot. Looking at his posts in the “Another Africa thread hijacked” thread I think that \*\*Rotllà \*\*just mega whooshed you. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/113 "2011-04-02T03:39:39Z")
As others have already stated, Jones is a dick. But he has every right to be one and like it or not, his right to be a dick has to be protected. That’s the funny thing about freedom of speech. You may not agree with what is said, but you have to support the right. Otherwise, then it’s not really free. He not only has the right to burn a Quran, he could light off a whole semi load of them for all I care. I guess his effort would be lost on me. And if the fanatics would see things like this the same way, people would just not waste their time with the effort anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Rotlla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/278dde/32.png) [@Rotlla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rotlla)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/114 "2011-04-02T03:41:44Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Really, now? I feel great pride that the fact is that in the United States religious freedom applies to Muslims. If it does not apply to Muslims, then it does not apply to anyone. > > And if you think that it’s a bad thing that Muslims have religious freedom, then you are a bigot. Uh hey so I was employing sarcasm to mock what is clearly the most common SDMB opinion? See because SDMB members clearly don’t like Muslims – in contrast with me, because I think Muslims are A-OK. (In fact I totally was friends with a Muslim once. She was totally excellent.) P.S. As Wonderella herself pointed out, minority groups are OUTSTANDING. ---
**Author:** ![Rotlla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/278dde/32.png) [@Rotlla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rotlla)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/115 "2011-04-02T03:44:01Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Er, why? > > Why shouldn’t we have religious freedom the same as anybody else. STOP WITH THE ISLAMITUDE MR. WARRAQ. (Holy shit it is literally impossible to be joke-bigoted on the SDMB because everyone is so used to actual bigotry that they assume a completely bigoted post must be genuine.) ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/116 "2011-04-02T03:50:49Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Simple: > > …you do it because it gets you a lot of cheap and easy press and attention. (and probably donations from a whole lot of wingnuts) If you want to point fingers of blame, then one would also have to include the media for covering, and reporting on said event. Without them, Jones and his little band would have been all alone…making s’mores over their Quran campfire ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/117 "2011-04-02T03:58:08Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That’s different in that the Islamic center was a gesture of outreach. Even though it was treated like a terrorist attack in its own right, it’s an open hand. Jones is extending one finger. What? I mean, I stopped reading at this post, but are you freaking serious?? ---
**Author:** ![Rotlla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/278dde/32.png) [@Rotlla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rotlla)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/118 "2011-04-02T04:02:08Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > What? I mean, I stopped reading at this post, but are you freaking serious?? I would assume he is. Do you need something about American culture explained to you in order to understand this post? Because it is pretty clear and unambiguous to me. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/119 "2011-04-02T04:07:03Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > What? I mean, I stopped reading at this post, but are you freaking serious?? What part are you failing to comprehend? ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/120 "2011-04-02T04:10:31Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > As others have already stated, Jones is a dick. > > But he has every right to be one and like it or not, his right to be a dick has to be protected. That’s the funny thing about freedom of speech. You may not agree with what is said, but you have to support the right. Otherwise, then it’s not really free. Again - what is the freedom of speech issue? Free from what? In what way was his freedom of speech ever threatened? Or was it even threatened that it would be threatened? Are you saying that freedom of speech now extends to freedom from consequences? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809.md?page=7)