# 8 UN workers killed, as Afghans protest US pastor's Quran-burning - Hope Pastor Jones is happy now **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 1, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809 "2011-04-01T16:08:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/141 "2011-04-02T14:00:01Z")
This news sure beats the news on the “Killing Team”… yeah, they are really upset about “Quran burning” which was like made to order… so, you see, they actually deserve Killing Team… in a cage match between one outrage and the other it’s clear which one wins… great job… ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/142 "2011-04-02T14:28:28Z")
In related news: I wonder if J.D. Salinger felt responsible for John Lennon’s murder. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/143 "2011-04-02T15:07:12Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > In related news: I wonder if J.D. Salinger felt responsible for John Lennon’s murder. When analogy is apt it helps us understand and empathize. When it’s inappropriate it helps confusing us and easily vilify. I bet you have more of those… ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/144 "2011-04-02T15:54:38Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Because those contexts are so very similar. How are they different? Jones is a big fucking asshole, but **the world is full of big fucking assholes**. Part of being a decent and civilized human being is not going insane and murdering people every time someone acts like an asshole. People do silly, offensive, stupid things all the time, and yet most of the time the rest of the world can restrain itself from murdering eight innocent people. Assigning blame for the murders to Jones is preposterous. I assign lots of blame to Jones for being an asshole, but so what? This message board has a dozen or more Grade-A assholes and nobody I know of has murdered anyone over it. ---
**Author:** ![Rotlla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/278dde/32.png) [@Rotlla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rotlla)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/145 "2011-04-02T15:57:11Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > How are they different? > > Jones is a big fucking asshole, but **the world is full of big fucking assholes**. Part of being a decent and civilized human being is not going insane and murdering people every time someone acts like an asshole. > > People do silly, offensive, stupid things all the time, and yet most of the time the rest of the world can restrain itself from murdering eight innocent people. Assigning blame for the murders to Jones is preposterous. I assign lots of blame to Jones for being an asshole, but so what? This message board has a dozen or more Grade-A assholes and nobody I know of has murdered anyone over it. Like Cassandra I again futilely point out that this attack was, apparently, not occasioned by the Qur’an burning but was rather an insurgent attack, and act of war, in the context of an ongoing war. It was a military offensive (insofar as the term ‘military’ is useful in describing the acts of an insurgent group.) ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/146 "2011-04-02T17:35:46Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > …It’s in a civil war, brought on, rightly or wrongly by a US invasion and occupation… No, no, no. The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan’s started Afghanistans descent into the darkness. Whatever the case, the US intervened _after_ to kick out the Commies by supporting the “good” guys, and also give them a little taste of Vietnam (according to some). After the the Soviets withdrew, so did we, leaving a country that had virtually no institutions. We didn’t even bother to try and help rebuild it, which I’m sure left a lot of Afghans pretty bitter about being used and then thrown away by the US. Not saying we didn’t reap what we sowed, but our direct involvement was based on an act of war of the part of Taliban’s collusion with _Al Queda_. What we were suppose to do? Wag our fingers and say, “Bad Taliban, bad, bad, bad.” The best thing to do would have been to capture or kill Bin Laden, and at least give the US the satisfaction of getting rid of the ass-hole, while avoiding a long-term commitment in the region. But as it stands, we broke it, we pay for it. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/147 "2011-04-02T17:44:25Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Just read thru the thread and I gotta say I support the POV expressed by **Oakminster** 100%. He’s got it totally correct. **Oakminster** ’s point seems to be that Koran-burning protests are what keeps Muslims from using more and more violence to take over the US. And apparently that people defiantly walking down streets is what keeps everyone else from gunning down everyone in sight. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/148 "2011-04-02T17:46:24Z")
> [@Rotlla](#): > > Like Cassandra I again futilely point out that this attack was, apparently, not occasioned by the Qur’an burning but was rather an insurgent attack, and act of war, in the context of an ongoing war. It was a military offensive (insofar as the term ‘military’ is useful in describing the acts of an insurgent group.) What were those people protesting then? ---
**Author:** ![Rotlla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/278dde/32.png) [@Rotlla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rotlla)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/149 "2011-04-02T17:48:40Z")
> [@user\_hostile](#): > > _Al Queda_ I apologize for peeving all over the place but for God’s sake, there is no U in al-Qaeda. > [@sqweels](#): > > What were those people protesting then? There was a peaceful protest, and then some violent thugs decided to use it as cover for their attack. Try harder in the future, please. It’s unpleasant having to explain simple things over and over. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/150 "2011-04-02T17:51:00Z")
> [@Rotlla](#): > > I apologize for peeving all over the place but for God’s sake, there is no U in al-Qaeda. There are no letters in the word that we’d recognize at all, as it’s in Arabic. Transliterations are approximations. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/151 "2011-04-02T18:20:46Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > How are they different? > > Jones is a big fucking asshole, but **the world is full of big fucking assholes**. Part of being a decent and civilized human being is not going insane and murdering people every time someone acts like an asshole. > > People do silly, offensive, stupid things all the time, and yet most of the time the rest of the world can restrain itself from murdering eight innocent people. Assigning blame for the murders to Jones is preposterous. I assign lots of blame to Jones for being an asshole, but so what? This message board has a dozen or more Grade-A assholes and nobody I know of has murdered anyone over it. I agree with your assessment of Jones. And while I think the people responsible for the murders are the people who actually committed the murders, your analogy is really a bad one. Jones was aware that his action might result in a violent response. Salinger had no way of knowing that a crazy person would read his words decades later and find some justification for killing in them. ---
**Author:** ![Rotlla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/278dde/32.png) [@Rotlla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rotlla)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/152 "2011-04-02T18:23:46Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > There are no letters in the word that we’d recognize at all, as it’s in Arabic. Transliterations are approximations. 'Struth, but absolutely none of the systematic romanization schemes for Arabic would put a U in that word. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/153 "2011-04-02T18:52:04Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > There was a recent thread about someone stealing a Communion wafer and desecrating it. Many of the people here who were defending THAT action are now condemning Jones’s actions. Sauce for the goose, maybe? Some of us are consistent. I [made the comparison](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=13586389#post13586389) and condemned both on the same grounds, even before Jones actually went through with his threat, and [anticipated a violent reaction afterwards](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=13604693post13604693). > [@Sevastopol](#): > > And yet Indonesia, Pakistan, Malaysia & other countries with vastly larger Islamic populations than Afghanistan, all conspicuously absent of any attention to this book-burning clown. Think again. Jones’ insult was [condemned by the Pakistani government](http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2011%5C03%5C29%5Cstory_29-3-2011_pg1_6), damaging American-Pakistani relations, and [blamed by Pakistani Christians](http://www.christiantoday.com/article/pakistani.christians.suffering.after.us.pastors.koran.burning/27762.htm) for exacerbating their circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/154 "2011-04-02T19:16:55Z")
> [@Rotlla](#): > > There was a peaceful protest, and then some violent thugs decided to use it as cover for their attack. > > Try harder in the future, please. It’s unpleasant having to explain simple things over and over. If the beheadings of the 2 European UN workers had nothing to do with enraged Islamic sensibilities on the part of the alleged insurgents, then I want to hear that stated explicitly. But peaceful or not, taking to the streets in protest over the destruction of a single copy of a book halfway around is crazy enough. ---
**Author:** ![Rotlla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/278dde/32.png) [@Rotlla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rotlla)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/155 "2011-04-02T19:27:05Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > If the beheadings of the 2 European UN workers had nothing to do with enraged Islamic sensibilities on the part of the alleged insurgents, then I want to hear that stated explicitly. I already stated it explicitly, and it was stated explicitly earlier in this thread. I mean this kindly, but do you have some sort of cognitive impairment that inhibits your ability to remember things that happened recently? > [@](#): > > But peaceful or not, taking to the streets in protest over the destruction of a single copy of a book halfway around is crazy enough. Well, it’s easy to have that perspective (I certainly agree) when you’re coming at the situation as a disinterested observer who has enough to eat and a safe place to live. People make dumb fucking choices when they don’t have the kind of security that people in the North get to take for granted. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/156 "2011-04-02T20:59:33Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > Some of us are consistent. I [made the comparison](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=13586389#post13586389) and condemned both on the same grounds, even before Jones actually went through with his threat, and [anticipated a violent reaction afterwards](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=13604693post13604693). I think everybody has been consistent, actually, on both sides. At least I’m not aware of anyone being _in_consistent. I think **Guin** just made assumptions without actually checking. I personally have consistently been all in favor of religious descration of any sort as long as it does not involve injury to anyone else’s person or property. No hypocrisy on my part. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/157 "2011-04-02T21:24:26Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I agree with your assessment of Jones. And while I think the people responsible for the murders are the people who actually committed the murders, your analogy is really a bad one. Jones was aware that his action might result in a violent response. Salinger had no way of knowing that a crazy person would read his words decades later and find some justification for killing in them. So let’s tiptoe around the crazies of the world lest they do something crazy? Listen, obviously Salinger didn’t know that one day a sick, unstable man would use his words to fuel and justify his brutal act of violence. I am arguing that even if he HAD known, he still wouldn’t have been the least bit to blame had he chosen to publish his novel anyway. There’s nothing remotely unethical about expressing your opinion. Pastor Jones expressed an opinion and snubbed another religion. I can’t count the number of times that someone has criticized MY religion on these boards. Happily, we’re living in an age where most of the world has learned to accept criticism of our mother, our baseball team, our government, and even our religion without resorting to violence. In short, we’ve evolved. Just because some groups choose to remain in the dark ages, and act like barbarians, doesn’t mean that the rest of the world should alter our behavior to kowtow to the crazies. It is not our duty to protect them from their own immense failures as human beings. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/158 "2011-04-02T21:43:02Z")
Screw these assholes. I’m ready to burn a Quran, or maybe a bunch of them, just to give these fuckers the finger. Maybe a national burn the Quran day is in order. I’m sick of us trying to appease these fanatical dickheads ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/159 "2011-04-02T21:47:45Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > So let’s tiptoe around the crazies of the world lest they do something crazy? “Tiptoeing” IS what people are doing when they refuse to spread the blame to Pastor Jones. It’s just a _Christian_ crazy they are tiptoeing around. > [@flickster](#): > > Screw these assholes. I’m ready to burn a Quran, or maybe a bunch of them, just to give these fuckers the finger. Maybe a national burn the Quran day is in order. > > I’m sick of us trying to appease these fanatical dickheads In other words, do just what Richards wants. Be a good little puppet for the fanatic, as long as it’s a _Christian_ fanatic. That’s what is happening here. People are letting a Christian fanatic jerk them around to set them against the Muslims he hates. And all the while they condemn the fanaticism of one side while defending the fanaticism of the other. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809/160 "2011-04-02T21:48:07Z")
**flickster** : How would that prove you’re better than them? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-un-workers-killed-as-afghans-protest-us-pastors-quran-burning-hope-pastor-jones-is-happy-now/576809.md?page=9)