# 8 year old autistic boy killed in "exorcism"... how fucking deluded are these people? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 26, 2003, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668 "2003-08-26T02:38:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/21 "2003-08-26T12:57:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Q.E.D. \* > \*\*See, this is the sort of thing that makes me soooo glad to be an atheist. \*\* Word. It makes me so glad I’m a normal Christian. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/22 "2003-08-26T13:04:51Z")
I saw a cartoon in the New Yorker last week, and it was God in his throne, glaring at Earth and he said, “Don’t make me come down there.” ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/23 "2003-08-26T13:21:55Z")
While I think that religion in general is intellectually indefensible, smearing all Christians for the actions of this small band of nutters is unfair, IMO. This kind of DYI exorcism is perhaps an extreme example of fundaloonie behavior (and watching too many horror movies on latenight cable), but I can’t think that it has anything to do with the religious practices of Christendom in general. I would not impute the insanity of this act to the average Christian anymore than I would want the average Christian to attribute the deranged acts of an atheist to me. There are lots of reasons to rap the knuckles of religious believers, but this is not one. ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/24 "2003-08-26T13:26:57Z")
What irritates me is that they have some protection under the law against being prosecuted for this homicide, because they did it in the name of God. ---
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/25 "2003-08-26T13:33:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Algernon \* > \*\*What irritates me is that they have some protection under the law against being prosecuted for this homicide, because they did it in the name of God. \*\* Huh? Unless God himself testifies, I don’t think that’s going to help them. Is there some specific law in Wisconson that you’re referring to? ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/26 "2003-08-26T13:35:10Z")
Do you swear to the tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help yourself? I do. ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/27 "2003-08-26T13:35:56Z")
**Slacker** , from the Milwaukee Journal Sentinal article I linked to… > [@](#): > > Wisconsin law makes it a felony to intentionally cause bodily harm to a child. But a subsection reads: “TREATMENT THROUGH PRAYER. A person is not guilty of an offense under this section solely because he or she provides a child with treatment by spiritual means through prayer alone for healing in accordance with the religious method of healing permitted” under other statutes “in lieu of medical or surgical treatment.” > > The allegations of physical restraint are the legal wrinkle, McCann said. David Hemphill has said sheets were used to help control the boy during the healing. ---
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/28 "2003-08-26T13:52:47Z")
**Algernon** , I’m surprised that’s even mentioned in the article. Did the kid die because they prayed for him instead of giving him medical help? Or was it because they tried to beat the evil out of him? If it was the latter I don’t see how the quoted ordinance applies. ---
**Author:** ![Telcontar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Telcontar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telcontar)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/29 "2003-08-26T14:02:58Z")
Algernon, that is protection from charges of neglect, intended to allow religous groups that require treatment to be declined (Christian Scientiests etc) to follow their faith. Though still bad law, this doesn’t seem to be the case here. if any action the parishoners took contributed to the boy’s death, then its murder (degree uncertain). ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/30 "2003-08-26T14:05:38Z")
Although it’s nice that you’re defending Christianity in general, **gobear** , I think this is not as uncommon as you suspect. The Pentecostals (Assemblies of God, Pentecostal Assemblies of the World, etc.) have several million members and are growing, in contrast to the decline in mainline churches. Pentecostals believe shit like demon possession and exorcism. (In fact our homosexuality is caused by a demon. That what I was taught as a kid in a Pentecostal church.) Even some Baptists are starting to believe in “Talking in Tongues”. ---
**Author:** ![Shabadu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/46a35a/32.png) [@Shabadu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shabadu)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/31 "2003-08-26T14:16:01Z")
> [@](#): > > Though police say the elder told them he sat on the boy’s chest, a woman who participated in the fatal prayer session said he had only lain across it. How is either one of these acceptable. I cannot believe that sitting or laying on the chest of someone who is already in distress would not cause problems. What makes me the most angry about this story is that it is a boy who cannot defend himself at all. He may have not even been able to understand any of what was going on, causing extreme panic before death. I cannot believe that after the 12 year old girl died this church was not put under more secure watch. This kind of church should not be allowed to continue. I feel that the people responsible should go to jail for a long time. If this had been done at someone’s home instead of in a church, that parent woud be more likely to be charged than this minister. ---
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/32 "2003-08-26T14:19:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Homebrew \* > \*\*Although it’s nice that you’re defending Christianity in general, **gobear** , I think this is not as uncommon as you suspect. The Pentecostals (Assemblies of God, Pentecostal Assemblies of the World, etc.) have several million members and are growing, in contrast to the decline in mainline churches. Pentecostals believe shit like demon possession and exorcism. (In fact our homosexuality is caused by a demon. That what I was taught as a kid in a Pentecostal church.) Even some Baptists are starting to believe in “Talking in Tongues”. \*\* This type of church is still the minority by a tremendous margin, and even then you have to consider the fact that not every member of a congregation supports this kind of behavior. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that a good percentage of the membership at the church cited in the OP’s story disapproves of their own church’s actions in this case. And most Christian denominations _believe_ that “speaking in tongues” is real (it’s in the Bible), but not many practice it these days for various reasons (I can go into detail here if need be, but didn’t want to jack this thread more than necessary). ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/33 "2003-08-26T14:40:00Z")
My opinion is that the Wisconsin law should not apply in this case, for the reasons others have noted. However, it is this law which is causing the prosecution to hesitate in filing charges. If this situation had not taken place in a so-called “prayer meeting” then I’m sure they’d have been in custody already. While I believe they _will_ eventually file (due to public pressure if nothing else), there is a chance that they may get off scott-free. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/34 "2003-08-26T14:46:07Z")
I’d just like to add that it is possible to believe in demon possession and speaking in tongues and not be a complete whacko. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/35 "2003-08-26T14:47:49Z")
Oh, I meant to add… Fuck that church. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/36 "2003-08-26T15:01:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Slacker \* > \*\*And most Christian denominations _believe_ that “speaking in tongues” is real (it’s in the Bible), but not many practice it these days for various reasons (I can go into detail here if need be, but didn’t want to jack this thread more than necessary). \*\* Well, I don’t mind if you hijack to mention the reasons, since now I’m curious why it isn’t practiced much anymore. I used to see people speaking in tongues all the time at the church I went to as a kid. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/37 "2003-08-26T15:03:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lord Ashtar \* > \*\*I’d just like to add that it is possible to believe in demon possession and speaking in tongues and not be a complete whacko. \*\* Unless we are working from two different definitions of _complete whacko_, no it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/38 "2003-08-26T15:04:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Even some Baptists are starting to believe in “Talking in Tongues” Well, see, there’s some room for consensus–the fundaloonies and gay guys both like to use their tongues! ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/39 "2003-08-26T15:14:02Z")
> [@](#): > > And most Christian denominations believe that “speaking in tongues” is real (it’s in the Bible), but not many practice it these days for various reasons (I can go into detail here if need be, but didn’t want to jack this thread more than necessary). No, it isn’t. The speaking in tongues described in the second chapter of acts was the miracle of the crowd hearing the apostles preach in their own languages > [@](#): > > ``` > 1: And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. > > ``` > > 2: And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. > 3: And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. > 4: And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. > 5: And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. > 6: Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. > 7: And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? > 8: And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? > 9: Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, > 10: Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, > 11: Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. > 12: And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this The “speaking in tongues” practiced in fundaloonie churches, however, is nothing more than [gibberish](http://skepdic.com/glossol.html) . ---
**Author:** ![nitroglycerine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c5a1d2/32.png) [@nitroglycerine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nitroglycerine)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/40 "2003-08-26T15:24:04Z")
This case reminds me of something that happened where I live a few years back. [http://www.rickross.com/reference/general/general311.html](http://www.rickross.com/reference/general/general311.html) Dennis Nixon and his wife of the Faith Tabernacle Congregation were convicted in the death of his teenage daughter when they decided to have the church heal her instead of taking them to the doctor. Thing is, that was the SECOND child they lost in this way. They were given community service in the first death. I don’t believe in hell, but if it does exist, to paraphrase Frank Zappa, it’s fires wait for the people like them. Jon [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668.md?page=3)