# 8 year old autistic boy killed in "exorcism"... how fucking deluded are these people? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 26, 2003, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668 "2003-08-26T02:38:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/41 "2003-08-26T15:29:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Revtim \* > \*\*Well, I don’t mind if you hijack to mention the reasons, since now I’m curious why it isn’t practiced much anymore. I used to see people speaking in tongues all the time at the church I went to as a kid. \*\* While I can’t speak for everyone, I can tell you why I’ve never seen it happen (and likely never will). For reference, I’m a member of an LCMS (Lutheran Church Missouri Synod) church. I also teach the high school Sunday school class, so I do a good deal of reading both about what my church and others believe. The verses of the Bible that describe speaking in tongues depict it in a couple of ways. One instance is when an entire crowd started going at it, and people passing by thought they were drunk. It’s debatable whether that event was actually speaking in tongues as we know it today. In other verses it is described as a personal experience with God. This is how I believe this gift should be used today, for a reason I’ll hit in a minute. Either way, I personally see it as a gift from the Holy Spirit, and not something that you can do on command, like most Pentacostals I’ve spoken to maintain (side note: some churches believe that you’re not a true Christian unless you can speak in tongues - kind of like a secret handshake I suppose). From what I understand in the ol’ Good Book, tongues were originally meant as a sign to the unbelievers that God was out there. Let’s face facts here - if this was the intention then, speaking in tongues is obsolete now. No one in this day and age is going to be converted by a person walking up to them while babbling incoherently. Aside from that, Paul (I think it was Paul, I don’t have my Bible with me at the moment) repeatedly states that he’d rather us speak five words that everyone can understand than 1,000 that they can’t. Speaking in tongues edifies the speaker, but spreading God’s word in a language that anyone can understand edifies everyone. It’s for this reason that I’m not seeking out this gift. And even if it did happen to me I don’t think I’d tell anyone. After all, it’s supposed to be a personal thing, not proof of my Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/42 "2003-08-26T15:30:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Great Unwashed \* > \*\*Unless we are working from two different definitions of _complete whacko_, no it isn’t. \*\* Okay, I’ll bite. What definition are you using? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/43 "2003-08-26T15:33:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lord Ashtar \* > \*\*Okay, I’ll bite. What definition are you using? \*\* The regular one. ---
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/44 "2003-08-26T15:34:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Great Unwashed \* > \*\*The regular one. \*\* Holy shit he’s right! **Unwashed** , can you help me with my misguided political views next? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/45 "2003-08-26T15:34:52Z")
Actually, never mind. I’ll start a GD thread to avoid further hijackization of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/46 "2003-08-26T15:37:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Slacker \* > \*\*Holy shit he’s right! > > **Unwashed** , can you help me with my misguided political views next? \*\* That depends. What are your _misguided political views_? **_The Great_ Unwashed** ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/47 "2003-08-26T15:41:27Z")
I grew up in the Assembly of God church, where speaking in tongues was commonplace. Sometimes it was the pastor. Sometimes it was someone in the congregation. Most times it scared the holy crap out of me. One memorable occasion was when a 13 year old female friend sitting next to me began speaking in tongues during the pastor’s sermon. Needless to say it was a bit disruptive. The service “ended” and the pastor went right to the altar call. Often, the pastor would provide the “interpretation” after a bit of time. A few times the interpretation came from a member of the congregation. At the time I was impressed, but now I believe the interpretations were just made up. At any rate, the “gift” was meant to be shared. It was not a private affair. I left the church long ago (for reasons too numerous to mention) so I don’t know whether or not it is still commonplace. ---
**Author:** ![Opengrave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/919ad9/32.png) [@Opengrave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Opengrave)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/48 "2003-08-26T16:14:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Q.E.D. \* > \*\*See, this is the sort of thing that makes me soooo glad to be an atheist. These are exactly the type of fuckwads that make religious people look like shitheads. “I did it cause God told me to” is not a FUCKING EXCUSE FOR MURDER you morons. \*\* I’m not for a moment defending the actions of these people but this phenomenon is not confined to a few religious nutjobs. It has also been a problem with secular “clinics”. Even state licensed therapists have [gotten in on the madness](http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,405032026,00.html). Google ‘rebirthing’ or ‘compression therapy’. From [http://www.healthwatcher.net](http://www.healthwatcher.net)[this article](http://www.healthwatcher.net/Quackerywatch/Attachment-therapy/insidedenver000602rosa.html). > [@](#): > > Rebirthing traces its roots back to Freud who believed-without evidence-that neuroses were caused by childhood sexual trauma. Since Freudian psychoanalysis rarely produced a cure, the search for one led to an equally baseless belief that most mental problems spring from the trauma surrounding birth. Lack of therapeutic success with that notion, too, led to pre-natal regression therapies; they in turn led to past-life regressions, ala Carl Jung. Alternative psychotherapies abound with these Jungian and neo-Freudian regressions, rebirthing among them. And there is not a shred of scientific evidence to support any of it. Much of it is just plain silly. Notes from [www.religioustolerance.org](http://www.religioustolerance.org) [here](http://www.religioustolerance.org/psy_hoax3.htm). [There are plenty of these people still out there practicing this quackery.](http://www.artirebirthing.com/bios/jeffreyBaker.html) At least something is starting to be done. [Colorado’s Candice’s Law](http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/718326/detail.html) or [Proposed Utah Legislation](http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,405032051,00.html). > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jarbabyj \* > \*\*I saw a cartoon in the New Yorker last week, and it was God in his throne, glaring at Earth and he said, > > “Don’t make me come down there.” \*\* [God Re-Floods Middle East](http://www.theonion.com/onion3816/god_re-floods_middle_east.html) ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/49 "2003-08-26T17:03:35Z")
Well, if they do get off on religious grounds, I’ve got another method of perfectly legal infant-murder to add to my list, in case I should ever want to murder an infant and get away with it: 1. Leave it in a hot car for 6 hours. “Oops!” 2. Tie it up and cast out its demons by sitting on its chest until it suffocates. “Goddiddit!” What will be next? ---
**Author:** ![Earthworm\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f07891/32.png) [@Earthworm\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earthworm_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/50 "2003-08-26T17:55:42Z")
I think this sums it up best, from the linked article: > [@](#): > > He also said the child’s death would not change the way the church operates, saying: “How you going to change the Bible?” Indeed… ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/51 "2003-08-26T18:11:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lord Ashtar \* > \*\*I’d just like to add that it is possible to believe in demon possession and speaking in tongues and not be a complete whacko. \*\* Possible How? ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/52 "2003-08-26T18:21:43Z")
**World Eater** , you might want to visit [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=207254) in GD where this topic is being pursued. ---
**Author:** ![Casey1505](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dc4da7/32.png) [@Casey1505](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Casey1505)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/53 "2003-08-26T18:35:59Z")
[CNN’s report](http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/08/24/autistic.boy.death/index.html) states that the EMTs did not arrive until nearly 11:00 PM. What time was this service? How long does it last? Just seems awfully late to have an 8 year old out, is all. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/54 "2003-08-26T19:09:05Z")
Thanks **Algernon**. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/55 "2003-08-26T23:28:21Z")
I feel strongly that I could make a MILLION dollars selling bumperstickers/t-shirts that say: **Christians: We’re Not All Like That** ---
**Author:** ![Capcha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Capcha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capcha)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/56 "2003-08-27T00:41:43Z")
if only ‘universal translators’ (like the one in Star Trek) existed, we’d know for sure…😃 But on serious note, doing anything to jeprodize and/or kill an innocent person/animal in the name of whatever, is seriously sick. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/57 "2003-08-27T01:07:01Z")
I’m stunned at the utter lack of conscience or remorse by the murderers is this case. These people are fucking sociopaths. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/58 "2003-08-27T02:24:39Z")
[Minister charged with abuse](http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/aug03/164934.asp) It’s not enough but it’s something. Fucking whackos. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/59 "2003-08-27T05:59:14Z")
From **Diogenes the Cynic** ’s link > [@](#): > > \*\*Their intent was to help this young man. No one says they set out to hurt this young man." \*\* > \ > > A high-ranking Milwaukee police source said Monday that Ray Hemphill told investigators that **he would sit on the boy’s chest for up to two hours at a time** during prayer services at the small storefront church at 8709 W. Fond du Lac Ave. According to the jail records, **Hemphill, who was arrested Saturday, weighs 157 pounds**. The boy’s weight was unknown. > > Three women - including Terrance’s mother, Patricia Cooper - sat on the boy’s arms and legs while Hemphill tried to remove the “evil spirits” from him, said Hemphill’s brother, David Hemphill, the pastor of the church where the service took place. WTF? How couldn’t they know they were going to hurt the kid. An idiot could have seen that… I am… out of words. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668/60 "2003-08-27T07:39:26Z")
Didn’t Law and Order already do an episode on this? > [@](#): > > What makes me the most angry about this story is that it is a boy who cannot defend himself at all. He may have not even been able to understand any of what was going on, causing extreme panic before death. That’s what makes this REALLY disturbing. The more the boy panics, the more the exorcist is convinced that he is making progress and should redouble his efforts. There is litterally nothing the boy can do other than a) die or b) struggle and die faster for all his efforts. It’s like engaging in an S&M rape/murder fantasy without setting up a safe word. This is manslaughter by willful negligence at least. The fact that this asshole would try to hide behind God is stone COLD. Let’s say that God commands Abraham to kill his son. Abraham does so, and his son manages to live only because Abraham missed a major artery. Is Abraham guilty of attempted murder? Hell yes. The end. The fact that someone thinks God may or may not say it was right is utterly beside the point. God didn’t write the penal law, and he has no civil authority to just wave the statues on murder and manslaughter when he feels like it. Though, hey, thank goodness he doesn’t actually read the Bible veyr closely, or else he’d have stoned the unruly kid to death. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-autistic-boy-killed-in-exorcism-how-fucking-deluded-are-these-people/197668.md?page=4)