# 8-year-old boy kills himself with AK-47 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 27, 2008, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838 "2008-10-27T20:31:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2008, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/1 "2008-10-27T20:31:54Z")
8-year-old boy kills himself with AK-47. [del]Parent exclaims, “Who knew?”[/del] DELETE:mad: From Reuter’s [http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE49Q6BM20081027](http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE49Q6BM20081027) [del][Early picture of child](http://j.b5z.net/i/u/2081847/i/baby-gun_ezr.jpg)[/del]DELETE:mad::mad: ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2008, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/2 "2008-10-27T20:33:37Z")
You realize that an AK-47 wasn’t used here, right? ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2008, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/3 "2008-10-27T20:37:56Z")
There are significant differences between Uzis and AK-47s, not the least of which being that the Uzi is a submachine gun (fires pistol ammunition) and the AK-47 is an automatic rifle that fires rifle ammunition. That said, I can’t think of many 8 year-olds (any?) who should be firing a fully automatic weapon, whether it is a submachine gun or assault rifle. The recoil makes them difficult to control even for adults, and most kids are not going to be aware of things like 1-second trigger pulls. It is unfortunate that those who let this child use a firearm that was too powerful for him got the kid killed, and an investigation should be conducted to determine how exactly this tragedy happened and who the responsible parties are. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2008, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/4 "2008-10-27T20:48:54Z")
I was just reading CNN, and just about to start a thread about this. At first, just reading the headline, I was thinking what kind of asshole leaves an uzi somewhere that a child could get at it. Then I read the article. Are you fucking kidding me? Adult supervision my puckered asshole. You don’t give an 8 year old kid a fucking machine gun! I’m just completely appalled by this. Seriously, how in the name of Richard J Gatling, could it be considered fun thing to do to put such a deadly, hard to control, weapon into the hands of an 8 year old child? And it will all be sobbed about as a horrible accident. Bullshit. Whoever is in charge of the fun little look-how-big-my-cock-is gun fair should be thrown in fucking jail for this. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2008, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/5 "2008-10-27T20:52:09Z")
> [@](#): > > **Jack Batty** said: > You don’t give an 8 year old kid a fucking machine gun! Sorry to be a pedantic asshole, but there’s a bigger difference between submachine gun and machine gun than 3 letters. An Uzi is the latter. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2008, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/6 "2008-10-27T20:52:47Z")
FWIW, here’s some more informative articles (which quotes the police and the boy’s father instead of Stop Handgun Violence) from the local press: [http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/17808473/detail.html](http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/17808473/detail.html) [http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking\_news/2008/10/police\_identify\_6.html?p1=Well\_MostPop\_Emailed1](http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2008/10/police_identify_6.html?p1=Well_MostPop_Emailed1) I’m still trying to figure out the mechanics of this - how can recoil flip a gun, even a short-barrel like an Uzi, far enough around to have it pointed at your head while you’re still holding the trigger down? Especially with short 8-year old arms? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2008, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/7 "2008-10-27T20:53:54Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Sorry to be a pedantic asshole, but there’s a bigger difference between submachine gun and machine gun than 3 letters. > > An Uzi is the latter. I’m sure the hole in that kid’s head gives a shit. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2008, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/8 "2008-10-27T20:55:13Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > I’m still trying to figure out the mechanics of this - how can recoil flip a gun, even a short-barrel like an Uzi, far enough around to have it pointed at your head while you’re still holding the trigger down? Especially with short 8-year old arms? Hold the gun at waist level when firing. When the gun rotates from recoil and goes vertical, it could be pointing at your head. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2008, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/9 "2008-10-27T21:00:20Z")
> [@](#): > > **muldoonthief** said: > I’m still trying to figure out the mechanics of this - how can recoil flip a gun, even a short-barrel like an Uzi, far enough around to have it pointed at your head while you’re still holding the trigger down? Especially with short 8-year old arms? Because automatic weapons like Uzis will all, due to their recoil, display the effects of muzzle climb. Technically, any time you shoot anything, part of the recoil involves the muzzle going up. There’s a video on youtube of a girl firing a Desert Eagle where she fires one shot and the muzzle of the gun comes up and back and hits her in the nose. Keeping in mind that the physics dictate muzzle climb will happen, as the muzzle comes up and back from each shot, with automatic fire you’re not leveling and lowering your muzzle between rounds, it’s going to be additive. With a rifle, butt against your shoulder, you’re not going to shoot yourself because your body will also be twisting, basically keeping the rifle perpendicular to your spine. This was a child with an Uzi. The recoil will be more pronounced, the effect of muzzle climb more dramatic, and because he’s holding it out in front of him with his arms, his wrists are going to turn up and elbows are going to bend. Physically, that’s how it happens. Of course, this never should have happened because an adult should not have let an 8 year old fire an Uzi to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2008, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/10 "2008-10-27T21:00:20Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Sorry to be a pedantic asshole, but there’s a bigger difference between submachine gun and machine gun than 3 letters. > > An Uzi is the latter. Sorry to be a pedantic asshole, but I believe you meant “former”. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2008, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/11 "2008-10-27T21:01:31Z")
> [@](#): > > **Jack Batty** said: > I’m sure the hole in that kid’s head gives a shit. Accuracy is especially important when we talk about firearms negligence because misinformation can only damage the cause of safe, sane, law abiding gun owners everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2008, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/12 "2008-10-27T21:03:09Z")
> [@](#): > > **Rysto** said: > ?Sorry to be a pedantic asshole, but I believe you meant “former”. You are correct. I mistakenly said “latter”. An Uzi is a submachine gun. A machine gun is a much larger weapon, and not one that an 8 year-old could possibly be holding in his hands to fire. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2008, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/13 "2008-10-27T21:13:15Z")
I don’t normally get into these threads, but wanted to post the following quote from one of the articles linked above: [[QUOTE=TheBostonChannel.com](http://QUOTE=TheBostonChannel.com)] In an advertisement for the event, the club said it would offer machine gun demonstrations and rentals and free handgun lessons. It’s all legal & fun – No permits or licenses required!!!" reads the ad, posted on the club’s Web site. "You will be accompanied to the firing line with a Certified Instructor to guide you. But You Are In Control – “FULL AUTO ROCK & ROLL,” the ad said. [/QUOTE] Allow me to express a FULL AUTO FUCK YOU to the morons who allowed this to happen. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2008, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/14 "2008-10-27T21:14:35Z")
As a gun owner and a father of an 8 year old, I just got to say: What the Fuck? ---
**Author:** ![Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2008, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/15 "2008-10-27T21:19:57Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Accuracy is especially important when we talk about firearms negligence because misinformation can only damage the cause of safe, sane, law abiding gun owners everywhere. Yes, misinformation damages the sane, law abiding people who treat guns responsibly. If only the sane people could gather together and host a fair in which they supervise the public handling a variety of weapons than perhaps some of the confusion will go away. ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2008, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/16 "2008-10-27T21:33:15Z")
Another hearty “what the fuck” here. Thing is, even an AK-47 would be reasonably safe for a child to operate, provided that they are prepared mentally and physically and closely accompanied by an adult guardian. It’s a full-sized rifle with a long barrel on it and lots of recoil-absorbing mass. As long as the kid held it into his shoulder he would be fine, and even firing from the hip the long barrel and consequent forward center of mass would prevent that kind of muzzle rotation from occurring. (Not that I would advise it even in that case – a child that small should be shooting nothing more heavy duty than a small .22 rifle, and that still under close supervision, of course.) But a fucking Uzi? Uzis are hard enough for regular shooters to fire accurately, given the short barrel, low mass, and a center of gravity much closer to the hand than most other fully automatic firearms. I own lots of guns and shoot them regularly, and even I wouldn’t feel entirely comfortable shooting an Uzi full-auto! Supervision or no supervision, safety training or no safety training, putting a weapon like this in the hands of a small child was nothing but a tragedy waiting to happen. I cannot believe the level of fucked-uppedness that would allow anybody to think this was a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2008, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/17 "2008-10-27T21:34:09Z")
Yes it’s a shame this 8 year old had to die, but it’s part of the greater good. You see, Americans need guns to protect themselves against… um… well, something. Oh, each other, yes, that’s it. So it’s worth it. Now let’s all discuss why the fact that it was an Uzi that killed him and not an AK-47 changes everything. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2008, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/18 "2008-10-27T21:35:22Z")
> [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](#): > > Yes, misinformation damages the sane, law abiding people who treat guns responsibly. If only the sane people could gather together and host a fair in which they supervise the public handling a variety of weapons than perhaps some of the confusion will go away. Yeah, this one worked out like gangbusters, didn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2008, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/19 "2008-10-27T21:38:21Z")
Bite me, **primus**. The kid had no business firing that weapon, supervised or not. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2008, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/20 "2008-10-27T21:40:11Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Bite me, **primus**. > > The kid had no business firing that weapon, supervised or not. Fine, I’ll bite you. Fact is that countries that don’t have widespread accessibility to guns, or a culture of worshipping them, also don’t have stories about children killing themselves accidentally with them. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838.md?page=2)