# 8-year-old boy kills himself with AK-47 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 27, 2008, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838 "2008-10-27T20:31:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/101 "2008-10-28T14:44:15Z")
This whole event is sad and surprising. I’ve fired a full-auto Uzi carbine, and it had negligible recoil and muzzle climb. (it fires 9mm handgun ammo). Of course, I wasn’t 8 years old when I did it. However, there are several different types of “Uzis” - I wonder if this was a machine pistol, which would have been much harder to control. I think this was an avoidable accident, but it was an accident nonetheless, not some sort of negligent homicide. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/102 "2008-10-28T14:44:50Z")
> [@Rapier42](#): > > I don’t know why I’m suprised at the anti-gun rage that comes out every a time we see a thread like this, but I am. > > Seriously, the numbskulls that were using the weapon are the problem here, not the weapon. I think the weapon helped. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/103 "2008-10-28T14:49:08Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > We have found that having widespread accessibility to firearms leads, in total, to a safer populace, free from tyranny, free from invasion and free, as history has taught, from those who wish to do us harm both as a person and as a country. The firearm allows us to do these things as the hammer allows us to hang pictures or the flashlight allows us to see in the dark. Is anyone else picturing a band of retarded kids playing _The Star Spangled Banner_ in the background while reading this? ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/104 "2008-10-28T14:50:46Z")
I think the point that every gun owner thinks he’s safe and responsible is a good one. Shit, every one of the assholes you see out on the road doing something stupid and dangerous thinks they’re a good driver, and something like 80% of people think they’re of average or higher intelligence. People are, to put it bluntly, frequently delusional about their capabilities. That’s what leads to shit like this sorry situation. Everybody involved thought they were much safer and more responsible than they actually were. So those of you posting about how safe and responsible you are with your guns will have to forgive the rest of us if we take your posts with a shaker or so of salt. Not knowing you irl and seeing how you handle your guns, we have no way to know if you’re part of the population who really is safe and responsible, or the population who overestimates yourselves. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/105 "2008-10-28T15:04:13Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Same question, and I _am_ home. Do you have a serious answer to this very serious question? It is possible to examine the backround and training of those involved in this tragic incident(_not_ “accident”), and yet you would have us believe that we should trust your judgement over theirs. > Why? Serious answer - there’s no way to know which gun owners follow every safety rule, every time, which ones follow them most of the time, but cut corners on occasion, and which ones are complete morons. Just like there’s no way to know that information about the drivers you’re sharing the road with every day. For guns, if you’re uncomfortable not having this information, I’d suggest staying away from places where guns are regularly used, such as shooting ranges and woods & forests where hunting occurs. My snark was directed against **sinical brit** , who apparently will be basing his decision on whether or not to visit our country on how to distinguish responsible & safe gun owners from the irresponsible ones. The odds of that mattering to him, unless he chooses to visit a shooting range or hunting area, are vanishingly low. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/106 "2008-10-28T15:07:09Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Is anyone else picturing a band of retarded kids playing _The Star Spangled Banner_ in the background while reading this? No, I was more picturing the death rictus on Charlton Heston’s face creaking into a twisted grin. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/107 "2008-10-28T15:35:40Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > I think the point that every gun owner thinks he’s safe and responsible is a good one. Shit, every one of the assholes you see out on the road doing something stupid and dangerous thinks they’re a good driver, and something like 80% of people think they’re of average or higher intelligence. > > People are, to put it bluntly, frequently delusional about their capabilities. That’s what leads to shit like this sorry situation. Everybody involved thought they were much safer and more responsible than they actually were. > > So those of you posting about how safe and responsible you are with your guns will have to forgive the rest of us if we take your posts with a shaker or so of salt. Not knowing you irl and seeing how you handle your guns, we have no way to know if you’re part of the population who really is safe and responsible, or the population who overestimates yourselves. Based on your own statements above, you’ll also forgive us for doubting the correctness of your assumption that you are intelligent enough to judge whether we are overestimating our safety practices. ---
**Author:** ![Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Petrobey_Mavromihalis)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/108 "2008-10-28T15:42:51Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Based on your own statements above, you’ll also forgive us for doubting the correctness of your assumption that you are intelligent enough to judge whether we are overestimating our safety practices. Her last sentence, just above what you wrote, explicitly says that she cannot judge that. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/109 "2008-10-28T15:55:28Z")
> [@Rapier42](#): > > Nod. > > ETA - thats not snark, I agree 100%. How would you go about preventing said shoot-o-fest, without impinging on the rights of responsible weapon owners? That would be their right, and I quote here, “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” Unless we expect children to be part of a well regulated Militia, how about we keep them out of gun shows, just like we keep them from watching movies that show breasts? That would be a small step in the right direction. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/110 "2008-10-28T15:58:07Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > I think the weapon helped. Uzis don’t kill people. Eight year old children, their dumbass parents and incompetent gun show organizers do. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/111 "2008-10-28T16:00:48Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > Uzis don’t kill people. Eight year old children, their dumbass parents and incompetent gun show organizers do. The gun lobby may have some of this blood on its hands, though. Under Massachusetts law, apparently everything that happened was totally legal and above board. If there’s no legislation prohibiting 8-year-olds from handling loaded automatic weapons, I highly doubt it’s because nobody proposed it. More likely, it’s because the knee-jerk response of the NRA and associates is to treat any sort of gun regulation as an infringement of the Second Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![sinical\_brit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/48db29/32.png) [@sinical\_brit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinical_brit)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/112 "2008-10-28T16:01:32Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Just like there’s no way to know that information about the drivers you’re sharing the road with every day. Au Contraire muldoonthief. If a driver gets drunk drives a car and is caught, he is banned. If he is caught speeding he gets points on his licence. More than 12 points and its bantime. We and more importantly the police can see how competant a driver is by his record. If his record is bad, its sensible to restrict his access to the tool in question. Villas story about the guy showing in the bar is interesting. Being drunk in a bar with a gun sticking out of your jeans is surely as least as bad as speeding. Why did : a. no-one else notice, b. the barmaid not ring the police when she found out he had a gun and was pished in a bar ? If he and all the others who are not responsible enough to have a gun, were arrested or cautioned everytime they fucked up, then the message might get through. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/113 "2008-10-28T16:09:51Z")
> [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > The gun lobby may have some of this blood on its hands, though. Under Massachusetts law, apparently everything that happened was totally legal and above board. If there’s no legislation prohibiting 8-year-olds from handling loaded automatic weapons, I highly doubt it’s because nobody proposed it. > > More likely, it’s because the knee-jerk response of the NRA and associates is to treat any sort of gun regulation as an infringement of the Second Amendment. The gun lobby is pretty powerless here in Massachusetts. The NRA has completely written us off as a lost cause. The only gun laws that don’t get passed are usually the ones that would entail confiscation of guns. I think it’s far more likely that no one ever thought that the people who go through the time and effort and money to own a full auto weapon (they’re NOT cheap), would be foolish enough to let an 8 year old fire one. > [@sinical\_brit](#): > > Au Contraire muldoonthief. > > If a driver gets drunk drives a car and is caught, he is banned. If he is caught speeding he gets points on his licence. More than 12 points and its bantime. We and more importantly the police can see how competant a driver is by his record. If his record is bad, its sensible to restrict his access to the tool in question. Ok, but until he’s **caught** driving drunk, or gets those 12 points, he’s still on the road with you. And if he’s just the type who tends to change lanes without looking, or tailgates, or spends a lot of time on his phone instead of paying attention to the road, he’ll more than likely never lose his license - he’ll just plow into you at 70 mph on the day that his luck and yours is bad. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/114 "2008-10-28T16:14:07Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > Sure, and America is God’s favorite country. If you say so, skippy. :rolleyes: Guns bad. Got it. When come back, bring cogent arguement. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/115 "2008-10-28T16:16:39Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > What history? My granny had a chair older than your country! How is that chair germaine to the conversation? ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/116 "2008-10-28T16:29:55Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > This isn’t just about someone using a tool and getting hurt. It’s about gun culture. What prompted this man to allow his son to shoot a Micro Uzi? Most likely the fact that shooting a fully automatic weapon is fun and cool, and he’d get to brag to his buddies when he got home. > > Guns are tools. That’s great, maybe more people would buy into that idea when we stop treating them like toys. I both agree and disagree with this. At the root of this is the undeniable fact that guns are tools. They are neither good nor evil. That said, would this man have allowed his son to fire this weapon if there weren’t so many movies, video games, stories, TV shows, media in general involving or discussing firearms? Who knows? You don’t know what motivated this man, nor do I, you are likely correct, but the end result is that his child is dead and he is responsible. This fact unhinges everything ‘fun and cool’ about shooting an automatic. [QUOTE=Kalhoun] But as this example shows us, people with lousy judgement also have guns and those errors in judgement (and there are many) sometimes end badly. I’ll bet you a fortune that this kid’s dad wishes he’d never seen a gun. [/QUOTE] People with lousy judgement also have kids and cars and licenses to drive them which according to the CDC kills more kids by a damn site than guns do, still, I’d bet the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/117 "2008-10-28T16:34:06Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > We have found that having widespread accessibility to firearms leads, in total, to a safer populace, free from tyranny, free from invasion and free, as history has taught, from those who wish to do us harm both as a person and as a country. No, we haven’t “found” that. We have the 2nd amendment, which means that people believed it would be so at one point. However, their opinion is still opinion. So, if you want to rephrase to “We believe that having…” I’d have little quarrel, even less if you said, “Many of us believe that having…” ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/118 "2008-10-28T16:40:59Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > People with lousy judgement also have kids and cars and licenses to drive them which according to the CDC kills more kids by a damn site than guns do, still, I’d bet the same thing. I hate this fucking argument. When someone dies because of a car it is an accident. That is, that car did something it is not designed to do. Cars are not designed to kill. Guns are. Accidental shooting or no, when someone dies as a result of a gun, that gun has fulfilled its purpose. That’s why guns should be regulated far more than cars. I’m constantly baffled that cars need to be registered and car drivers need to be licensed and of a certain age and able to pass a test and retested periodically and if they fuck up they aren’t allowed near cars … but when the same criteria butts up against guns, we get all the little-dick ammo-freaks screaming about impinging rights. It’s bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/119 "2008-10-28T16:49:10Z")
> [@Rapier42](#): > > I don’t know why I’m suprised at the anti-gun rage that comes out every a time we see a thread like this, but I am. > > Seriously, the numbskulls that were using the weapon are the problem here, not the weapon. Um, no, it was the weapon-or rather, or rather, the TYPE of weapon, in this case. No eight-year-old should be allowed to handle an Uzi. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838/120 "2008-10-28T16:56:01Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Whatever you’ve got (but you’ll have to do better than your moronic effort below.I think I said exactly that in my first post, fuckwit.I get the pleasure of taking advantage of the opportunity to call you a fuckwit. I think every post I’ve seen of yours has been fuckwitted, but often they are fuckwitted posts about global warming or Al Gore in GD. It was a nice chance to cover all of those posts by calling you for what you are.How many times do people use a pool each year? How many times do people use a gun each year? Man you are Captain I-Don’t-Get-It.That’s just fucking lame. Goodness gracious, Barbie! Having consumed the data stored on your first neuron (the word “fuckwit”) and recruited the entire dataset on your other neuron (the term “fucking lame”), you’ve exhausted your entire mental capacity and turned to getting excited about previous and completely unrelated topics. Reminds me of a little doggie who knows he’s upset about something, but in his inability to generate a coherent response just starts peeing over everything in sight, including himself, while he’s yapping as ferociously as he can. Don’t worry; it’s OK for you to pleasure yourself here in the Pit calling people naughty words. I realize it may be your sole source of pleasure with your only partner. Part of the reason for the Pit is, of course, to let the mentally underserved use Big People names instead of saying anything cogent when they dribble here. Have a friend read my original posts to you about the topic at hand so that they can help you understand the point being made. Some “Barbarian”… What are you really–some kinda scrawny pinhead loser living in front a computer screen hoping the world infers a significance for you based on the drivel you post here? I am embarrassed for barbarians everywhere. How about asking the mods for a new tag? Barbie the Puppy Dribbler, maybe? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-year-old-boy-kills-himself-with-ak-47/469838.md?page=7)