# 80 CEOs agree - Tax increases are needed **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 25, 2012, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/80-ceos-agree-tax-increases-are-needed/638836 "2012-10-25T15:59:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/80-ceos-agree-tax-increases-are-needed/638836/1 "2012-10-25T15:59:26Z")
[http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/blog/morning\_call/2012/10/atts-stephenson-among-80-ceo.html](http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/blog/morning_call/2012/10/atts-stephenson-among-80-ceo.html) > [@](#): > > Randall Stephenson, the CEO of Dallas-based AT&T Inc. (NYSE: T) is among a group of 80 corporate chief executives who have banded together to pressure Congress to lower the federal deficit with tax-revenue increases as well as spending cuts, the Wall Street Journal reported. > > The Journal said that Stephenson, a Mitt Romney supporter, is among the group that believes tax increases are unavoidable. Tax increases and spending cuts. Isn’t that what the President asked for? (I imagine he and the Republicans would differ on the cuts, naturally) Did 80 CEOs just say that the Romney\Ryan approach _is wrong_? Seriously, I’m asking. I do not know, but it seems to go against what I think I heard Romney say. I apologize if this is being discussed elsewhere. I could not find it. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/80-ceos-agree-tax-increases-are-needed/638836/2 "2012-10-25T17:10:51Z")
Wall Street CEOs don’t want spending cuts because they benefit directly from government spending. Seems pretty straightforward to me. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/80-ceos-agree-tax-increases-are-needed/638836/3 "2012-10-25T17:11:53Z")
Yes this is more in line with Obama’s plan than it is in line with Romney’s which is why this is news. That said, I’m not sure how significant this is. 80 CEOs doesn’t exactly represent a consensus in the business community in favor of increased taxes, it just means that there isn’t 100% consensus the other way. ---
**Author:** ![Intense\_Porpoise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e274bd/32.png) [@Intense\_Porpoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intense_Porpoise)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/80-ceos-agree-tax-increases-are-needed/638836/4 "2012-10-25T17:15:33Z")
They should send a letter to their employees explaining why it would benefit the company if Obama is re-elected. The Right will surely speak up for these CEOs’ right to free speech, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/regallag_the_axe/32/445_2.png) [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Regallag_The_Axe)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/80-ceos-agree-tax-increases-are-needed/638836/5 "2012-10-25T17:17:11Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Did 80 CEOs just say that the Romney\Ryan approach _is wrong_? Romney probably just had a different plan when he talking to those 80 CEOs. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/80-ceos-agree-tax-increases-are-needed/638836/6 "2012-10-25T17:25:21Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Wall Street CEOs don’t want spending cuts because they benefit directly from government spending. Seems pretty straightforward to me. AT&T is a Wall Street firm now? Even based out of Dallas? Interesting… ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/80-ceos-agree-tax-increases-are-needed/638836/7 "2012-10-25T17:37:41Z")
No offense, but how is “include comprehensive and pro-growth tax reform, which broadens the base, lowers rates, raises revenues and reduces the deficit” in line with Obama’s approach? Say whatever you want about the merits of their plans, but increasing taxes on the \>$250,000 payers narrows the tax base. The fact of the matter is that if you read the actual letter, it is essentially an endorsement of the Bowles Simpson plan. The Bowles Simpson plan should have been Obama’s signature achievement, and he essentially ignored it, which is the biggest failure of his Presidency. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/80-ceos-agree-tax-increases-are-needed/638836/8 "2012-10-25T17:42:22Z")
I myself also agree that _in theory_ the ideal move at this time would be a combination of tax increases and spending cuts. But I wouldn’t support them or a candidate who called for them. Because as a practical matter what would happen is that with the deficit lowered, pressure to increase spending for all sorts of things would increase, and the spending cuts would be reversed and then some, with the tax increases in place. The the deficit would return, and with it new calls for a new combination of spending cuts and tax increases. And so on and on. Which frankly is exactly what Obama is doing. He increased spending enormously and is now calling for the combination of spending cuts etc. Is he planning to undo all his spending increases? I don’t think so. But he is certainly planning to increase taxes. (In fact he already has, but he’s going for more.) ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/80-ceos-agree-tax-increases-are-needed/638836/9 "2012-10-25T17:46:07Z")
> [@Intense\_Porpoise](#): > > They should send a letter to their employees explaining why it would benefit the company if Obama is re-elected. The Right will surely speak up for these CEOs’ right to free speech, etc. They definitely wouldn’t accuse the CEO’s of benefitting from cronyism, nor would they accuse them of being part of the liberal socialist elite. ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/80-ceos-agree-tax-increases-are-needed/638836/10 "2012-10-25T17:46:50Z")
Also, if you want to learn more about this group, the following is their website. [Fix the Debt](http://www.fixthedebt.org/) ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/80-ceos-agree-tax-increases-are-needed/638836/11 "2012-10-25T20:46:59Z")
> [@LonghornDave](#): > > No offense, but how is “include comprehensive and pro-growth tax reform, which broadens the base, lowers rates, raises revenues and reduces the deficit” in line with Obama’s approach? Say whatever you want about the merits of their plans, but increasing taxes on the \>$250,000 payers narrows the tax base. > > The fact of the matter is that if you read the actual letter, it is essentially an endorsement of the Bowles Simpson plan. The Bowles Simpson plan should have been Obama’s signature achievement, and he essentially ignored it, which is the biggest failure of his Presidency. Bullshit. Here’s a good question: > **[When Do We Get to the Revenue Half of Bowles-Simpson?](https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/10/when-do-we-get-revenue-half-bowles-simpson/)** > >   We’ve already done 2/3 of the SB spending cuts, and 0% of the revenue increases. When do we get to the revenue part? ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/80-ceos-agree-tax-increases-are-needed/638836/12 "2012-10-25T22:39:48Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Bullshit. > > Here’s a good question: > > [When Do We Get to the Revenue Half of Bowles-Simpson? – Mother Jones](http://m.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/10/when-do-we-get-revenue-half-bowles-simpson) > > We’ve already done 2/3 of the SB spending cuts, and 0% of the revenue increases. When do we get to the revenue part? Might help if you said which part was bullshit. I assume it isn’t the part that this group is asking for tax changes nothing like Obama has proposed (which is what everyone else in this thread seems to be mistaken about), and I also assume you aren’t calling the claim that these CEOs are essentially endorsing the Bowles Simpson plan with their letter bullshit. Right on both of those, correct? So instead you are saying that it is bullshit that not enacting the plan was a failure. Well, don’t you think Obama would have initially had a better chance of getting the tax increases done that were a part of the plan if he didn’t waste all of his political capital on the PPACA passing and wrapped it with long-term entitlement reform? Further, that Mother Jones question is absurd, and you’re characterization of what they are even saying is worse. They aren’t saying that 2/3rds of the Bowles Simpson cuts have been made. They are saying that 2/3rds of the **discretionary cuts** have been made. Bowles Simpson also includes Social Security and Medicare reforms in addition to hard caps on government spending. How much progress has been made on those fronts? Further, did I miss something or didn’t Obama not only push to increase taxes on the wealthy but to also make the tax code even more complicated (for example, the existing AMT isn’t enough, he proposed Version 2 with the Buffett rule)? Isn’t one of the huge parts of Bowles Simpson the simplification of the tax code? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/80-ceos-agree-tax-increases-are-needed/638836/13 "2012-10-26T00:46:57Z")
> [@LonghornDave](#): > > No offense, but how is “include comprehensive and pro-growth tax reform, which broadens the base, lowers rates, raises revenues and reduces the deficit” in line with Obama’s approach? Say whatever you want about the merits of their plans, but increasing taxes on the \>$250,000 payers narrows the tax base. > > The fact of the matter is that if you read the actual letter, it is essentially an endorsement of the Bowles Simpson plan. The Bowles Simpson plan should have been Obama’s signature achievement, and he essentially ignored it, which is the biggest failure of his Presidency. Thats like saying failure to achieve peace in the middle east is Obama’s biggest foreign policy failure. NOONE on either side of the aisle was ready to wipe the board clean. Republicans like their tax deductions and Democrats like their progressivity. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/80-ceos-agree-tax-increases-are-needed/638836/14 "2012-10-27T20:05:26Z")
> **[CEOs Launch Campaign To Get Congress To Finally Fix The Deficit](https://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/ceos-launch-campaign-congress-finally-fix-deficit-145817079.html)** > > One of the biggest challenges for the U.S. going forward is the country's massive debt and deficit problem. The U.S. government is currently spending about $1 trillion more every year that it takes in, and we've now piled up $16 trillion of debt. So... **CEOs Launch Campaign To Get Congress To Finally Fix The Deficit** _80 CEOs recommend a balanced approach to balancing the budget._ > [@](#): > > The consensus of non-partisan economists (and reasonable people everywhere) is that the only way to solve our debt and deficit problem is to do it in a balanced way: > > To trim spending AND increase revenue. Currently, government spending is running at about 24% of GDP, and tax revenues are only coming in at about 17% of GDP. The only way to reasonably expect those lines to cross is to reduce spending and increase revenue, perhaps converging at about 20% of GDP. And if we don’t agree on this soon and make the tough decisions necessary to gradually get there, our situation will only get worse. Refusing any and all tax increases has become its own religion in Washington. That needs to be dialed down. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/80-ceos-agree-tax-increases-are-needed/638836/15 "2012-10-27T20:29:00Z")
You did see that they’re calling for a 3:1 ratio of spending cuts to tax increases, right? Are you okay with that? Do you think the Democrats will go along with that? Let’s see… Let Bush’s tax cuts on the rich expire. That’s about 80 billion per year. Toss in 240 billion in spending cuts, and you’ll get a 320 billion reduction in the deficit. Not bad. So, assuming you support ending the Bush tax cuts on the rich, what’s your proposal for cutting 240 billion per year from government spending? Did you notice that they’re also specifically calling for this to be done by broadening the tax base and “include comprehensive and pro-growth tax reform, which broadens the base, lowers rates, raises revenues and reduces the deficit.” That’s Romney’s plan. I think Mitt Romney would sign onto this plan in a second. We already know Obama won’t, since this is essentially the strategy recommended by Simpson-Bowles, and Obama already rejected it. The reason Republicans have rejected tax increases is because history shows that whenever Republicans agree to tax increases in exchange for spending cuts, the tax increases generally happen and the spending cuts don’t. So government just grows bigger and the problem gets worse. So you’d have to have some sort of iron-clad framework that guarantees the spending cuts, and which mandates that all savings be applied to the deficit. If you could get that, a lot of Republicans would get on board. But you’ll never get Democrats to agree to the spending cuts. Oh, they’ll claim to agree, but they’ll pull their usual shenanigans like cancelling planned increases and calling that a ‘cut’, or setting some outrageous ‘baseline’ for current spending and then agree to cut back from that to some number that still causes government to grow but which they’ll tout as a ‘cut’. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/80-ceos-agree-tax-increases-are-needed/638836/16 "2012-10-27T20:34:29Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > You did see that they’re calling for a 3:1 ratio of spending cuts to tax increases, right? Are you okay with that? Do you think the Democrats will go along with that? Why wouldn’t they? That’s exactly the ratio they’ve proposed in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/80-ceos-agree-tax-increases-are-needed/638836/17 "2012-10-27T21:48:59Z")
Yup, 3:1 sounds just about perfect for this Democrat. 2.5:1 might be a bit better, but let’s not haggle over a few billion. Do we get to count the ~$1T in cuts that have already been agreed to? What about the sequestration cuts? ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/80-ceos-agree-tax-increases-are-needed/638836/18 "2012-10-27T21:49:59Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I think Mitt Romney would sign onto this plan in a second. When asked at a debate if he would accept $10 in spending cuts for every $1 in revenue Mitt Romney said no. Do you think he was lying? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/80-ceos-agree-tax-increases-are-needed/638836/19 "2012-10-27T22:19:52Z")
I’m sure he sincerely believed it, that day. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/80-ceos-agree-tax-increases-are-needed/638836/20 "2012-10-27T22:47:31Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > So, assuming you support ending the Bush tax cuts on the rich, what’s your proposal for cutting 240 billion per year from government spending? Death panels? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/80-ceos-agree-tax-increases-are-needed/638836.md?page=2)