# 800 Years Later **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 7, 2003, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/800-years-later/200124 "2003-09-07T17:49:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![paulberserker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@paulberserker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulberserker)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/800-years-later/200124/21 "2003-09-08T12:10:48Z")
mmm, theres a disused road just up the road from me in North London that got bypassed about 7-8 years ago (i can find out) and thats full of cracks where vegetation is growing up through the tarmac. metal fencing there has rusted up, twisted away and fallen, and all other parts are overgrown. i walk through there on my way back from the supermarket. its like theres nbobody else on earth around, you cant even hardly hear the traffic. theres only constantly updated graffiti under the motorway bridge there to remind you. pigeons seem to be doing a good job of destroying that as well. I would hold with what Eburacum said. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/800-years-later/200124/22 "2003-09-08T14:46:32Z")
Migh money is on the high arctic region. Stuff does not deteriorate much in the cold. remember the Franklin expedition? Preservation of remnants including tin cans in garbage dumps from that event over 150 years ago are remarkably well preserved. ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/800-years-later/200124/23 "2003-09-08T14:56:18Z")
**Mount Rushmore** will still be recognisable, I imagine. Maybe the huge lock systems on the Great Lakes? ---
**Author:** ![dylan\_73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecccb3/32.png) [@dylan\_73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dylan_73)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/800-years-later/200124/24 "2003-09-08T15:04:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Derleth \* > \*\*Anyway, missile silos will last a long time. Especially the ones in places like Montana and the Dakotas, where there’s little to wear them down. \*\* Missile silos?! Surely you don’t actually believe that these legends of “Spears of Fire” that were thrown hundreds of miles by the ancient giants have any basis in truth! No, these are obviously underground temples dedicated to the worship of a fertility god. We can see this in the plainly phallic symbols drawn on the walls. The fact that these temples were inevitably built in dry areas suggests that this god had some connection with bringing the annual rains. I really don’t think we need to bring in ancient myths as an explanation. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/800-years-later/200124/25 "2003-09-08T15:09:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by engineer\_comp\_geek \* > \*\*A lot of the concrete around here probably wouldn’t last that long either. Seems like the freezing of water in the winters would slowly tear them apart, starting with small cracks and making them bigger until the structure was unsafe. \*\* [Concrete](http://www.deeconcrete.com/concretehistory1.html), while not indestructible, is more durable than you think. The Coliseum in Rome is made largely of brick-faced concrete, and it is nearly 2,000 years old. Granted, it not is pristine condition, but if the population were removed, there would not be any damage from vandals stripping off building materials over the ages. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/800-years-later/200124/26 "2003-09-08T15:12:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ellis Dee \* > \*\*Hoover Dam? \*\* Actually, that’s a good question. I would not want to be downriver when any of the dams go. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/800-years-later/200124/27 "2003-09-08T16:54:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Northern Piper \* > \*\*I wonder about that. 800 winters, where water freezes, expands, then contracts, could crack open the covers, and dust could fill them in? \*\* Maybe 800 freeze-thaw cycles could indeed destroy a missile silo. But they were designed to withstand nuclear blasts and extended human habitation in the event of fallout, so I think they’ll survive 800 years of being ignored. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/800-years-later/200124/28 "2003-09-08T17:33:10Z")
You might find this interesting. Photos from Pripyat, the city that was abandoned when Chernobyl melted down. After only ten years its well on its way to returning to wilderness … . [http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/chernobyl\_poems/ls01.html](http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/chernobyl_poems/ls01.html) ---
**Author:** ![Gunslinger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gunslinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gunslinger)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/800-years-later/200124/29 "2003-09-08T18:21:22Z")
What about skyscrapers? I doubt the new glass boxes would last very long, but the Chrysler and Empire State buildings (and others of that era) were built to be there forever. That was before the architects started thinking that they might have to take them down someday. And on a related note, how well do you think the stainless steel ornamentation on the Chrysler Bldg would hold up? (for a story of my own) ---
**Author:** ![alimarx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@alimarx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alimarx)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/800-years-later/200124/30 "2003-09-08T18:51:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Meurglys \* > **Mount Rushmore will still be recognisable, I imagine.** And New Hampshire’s Old Man of the Mounta… oh, no, wait… ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/800-years-later/200124/31 "2003-09-08T19:14:52Z")
Fie! on your southwest elitism! This [Myster Tower](http://www.ci.cuyahoga-falls.oh.us/about/tower.htm) in central Ohio has been standing _unfinished_ for over 30 years (of all 4 seasons!) and the contractor swears it will last at least 400 more as is. And you know contractors never lie. ---
**Author:** ![Anaxagoras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b77776/32.png) [@Anaxagoras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaxagoras)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/800-years-later/200124/32 "2003-09-08T19:58:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by eburacum45 \* > \*\*The streets would be the first thing to disappear - weeds such as rosebay willowherb and michaelmas daisy would grow in the cracks between the paving stones, and on the unswept rubbish and dust in the corners. > > … gradually the polymer surrounds of double glazing units will fail under the influence of ultraviolet from the sun; the wind will rip a few panes out of the glass walls and once an opening is made the water and wind and frost will pop most of the rest, forming a broken glass layer among the forests below.\*\* Thanks, this is _exactly_ what I was looking for! ---
**Author:** ![Anaxagoras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b77776/32.png) [@Anaxagoras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaxagoras)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/800-years-later/200124/33 "2003-09-08T20:08:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Horseflesh \* > \*\*I’d also say the Southwest, such as New Mexico or Arizona. Deserts don’t seem to change much over the centuries. Ditto with the highest elevations of the Rockies. > > But if you’re looking for a place for a new civilization to settle down, neither of those lend themselves very well. Or if you’re looking for a landscape whose major landmarks wouldn’t change much after 800 years, then both would fit the bill. \*\* This is fairly obvious, now that you’ve pointed it out. No, I’m not looking for a place for a new civilization, rather a place where it is believable that remains of our current civilization would remain after 800 years. I expect that in most parts of the North American continent that most obvious traces of our civilization would be erased within 400 years without human intervention; obvious exceptions include roadway cuts, strip mines, the Hoover Dam, and other _really_ big structures. This is cool; every civilization needs some reminders of the civilizations that came before, such as the Pyramids in Egypt or those _huge_ statues next to the river in LOTR. But the same thing that preserved traces of the Egyptian civilization will also help preserve traces of our civilization when we are gone: nobody goes into the desert if they can help it. The pueblos in Arizona have lasted well over 800 years without human intervention; I should have thought of this myself. Thanks ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/800-years-later/200124/34 "2003-09-08T22:03:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Anaxagoras \* > **But the same thing that preserved traces of the Egyptian civilization will also help preserve traces of our civilization when we are gone: nobody goes into the desert if they can help it.** Similarly, nobody digs in marginal farmland if they can help it. Especially if it’s isolated from the natural routes of travel (assume that people will be using the old highway cuts for a long time to come, however they decide to travel) and lacks any redeeming features (water, for example). Thus, I think the missile silos will last for a good, long time. The Dakotas and eastern Montana aren’t very conducive to the kinds of civilizations that dig massive holes in the ground. The original natives were Plains Indians, nomads who followed the bison herds. Farming wasn’t done, because the land can’t support anything beyond simple grasses without major irrigation and fertilization. Following the game is a natural reaction to largely unappealing land. Plus, silos don’t advertise themselves. Once the dust and dirt has covered over the closed door and the buildings have weathered away, you’d need something along the lines of an aerial survey to even know something was there (disturbed earth looks different from its surroundings for a good while). Someone digging a foundation right over a silo door would hit cement pretty quickly, but as I said, that’s unlikely for numerous reasons. Finally, I think it’s fairly likely that in eight centuries, eastern Montana and the Dakotas could become deserts. We’ve been slowly desertifying for the past five-six years with substandard precipitation, and without humans to maintain irrigation projects, the process will run its course to, I think, its ultimate end. ---
**Author:** ![BaldTaco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/47e85d/32.png) [@BaldTaco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BaldTaco)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/800-years-later/200124/35 "2003-09-08T23:16:45Z")
While it’s true that things are generally well preserved in arctic climes, it’s questionable how cold the continent will remain for the next 800 years. With global warming, Yellowknife could be temperate by then. I seriously doubt if the Hoover Dam will survive 800 years with constant maintenance, let alone if left to deteriorate. The stress it endures is almost beyond comprehension. That being said, when it does finally burst, there will probably be traces left behind. ---
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/800-years-later/200124/36 "2003-09-09T16:34:25Z")
Hoover Danm is going to erode. Without humans to operate the floodgates, eventually water is going ot go over the top, and I’m thinking it won’t take much dirt- and debris-laden water to erode a big channel in it. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/800-years-later/200124/37 "2003-09-09T17:19:40Z")
An old oil well would be pretty mysterious to future generations. The well bore would be long collapsed, but there would be plenty of evidence. Underground strucutures would still be around. [Cheyenne Mountain](https://www.cheyennemountain.af.mil/) should be structurally intact. [Yucca Mountain](http://www.epa.gov/radiation/yucca/faqs.htm#afterclose) is supposed to be safe for 10,000 years. Depending on how you define “our” civilization, the dwellings of the [Pueblo Indians](http://www.indianpueblo.org/intro/index.cfm) should still be going strong. ---
**Author:** ![gluteus\_maximus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f17d59/32.png) [@gluteus\_maximus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gluteus_maximus)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/800-years-later/200124/38 "2003-09-09T19:37:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fear Itself \* > \*\*[Concrete](http://www.deeconcrete.com/concretehistory1.html), while not indestructible, is more durable than you think. The Coliseum in Rome is made largely of brick-faced concrete, and it is nearly 2,000 years old. Granted, it not is pristine condition, but if the population were removed, there would not be any damage from vandals stripping off building materials over the ages. \*\* Not to mention how much longer all of that masonry will last through 800 years free of petro-fuel exhaust-induced acid rain. **Anaxagoras** , are you going to acknowledge all of us in your SF novel? 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/800-years-later/200124.md?page=1)