# 88 = Heil Hitler? Eh? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 6, 2002, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/88-heil-hitler-eh/127298 "2002-09-06T15:33:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RiverRunner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/977dab/32.png) [@RiverRunner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RiverRunner)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/88-heil-hitler-eh/127298/1 "2002-09-06T15:33:09Z")
IIRC, there was a story a couple of weeks ago about a department store – **Target** , I think – pulling a line of clothing because of a logo that looked like the number 88. Presumably, the number stands for “Heil Hitler,” the letter H being the eighth in the alphabet. My first thought was that it was one of the stupidest things I’d ever heard (88 being a neo-Nazi-type symbol, that is), but apparently it is true. Can anyone corroborate it? Even if it’s true, it has to be one of the most lame-brained symbols I’ve ever heard of. Sounds like an Oldsmobile. RR ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/88-heil-hitler-eh/127298/2 "2002-09-06T15:35:34Z")
“88” was the nickname for the ubiquitous 88mm anti-tank/anti-aircraft gun put to fearsome use by the German military in World War II. Maybe it’s the association with that? It does sound a little silly though, particularly in comparison with the current ‘Zyklon’ furore. FWIW, Adolf Hitler’s initials are the basis for the British neo-Nazi group Combat 18. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/88-heil-hitler-eh/127298/3 "2002-09-06T15:35:49Z")
Here’s one link I found: [http://www.student.uit.no/~paalde/nazismexposed/Scripts/faq.html](http://www.student.uit.no/~paalde/nazismexposed/Scripts/faq.html) ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/88-heil-hitler-eh/127298/4 "2002-09-06T15:53:55Z")
…of course, I could be complete wrong with my theory. Oops. ---
**Author:** ![Opengrave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/919ad9/32.png) [@Opengrave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Opengrave)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/88-heil-hitler-eh/127298/5 "2002-09-06T16:15:19Z")
I think it is pretty well known that ‘88’ is a neo-nazi slogan. I’m not going to look up any refereces but it has been mentioned on several documentaries I have seen on TV. **RiverRunner** ’s explanation is the one I have always heard. H=8 so 88=HH or Heil Hitler. NP: **Lacuna Coil** - _Unleashed Memories_ ---
**Author:** ![RiverRunner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/977dab/32.png) [@RiverRunner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RiverRunner)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/88-heil-hitler-eh/127298/6 "2002-09-06T16:20:20Z")
> [@](#): > > It does sound a little silly though, particularly in comparison with the current ‘Zyklon’ furore. Que? Have I missed something else? Obviously, I haven’t been keeping up with the news lately. RR ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/88-heil-hitler-eh/127298/7 "2002-09-06T16:29:00Z")
2, 21, 12, 12, 19, 8, 9, 20 ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/88-heil-hitler-eh/127298/8 "2002-09-06T16:30:54Z")
Note: This post contains a link to a white power record label’s website. I hate the bastards, but I figured what better evidence than from the neo-nazis themselves? [Search results for ‘88’ in the Resistance Records catalog](http://www.resistance.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=88&x=13&y=11). Note how they also sell “\_\_\_elry.” Cute. ---
**Author:** ![starfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@starfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/starfish)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/88-heil-hitler-eh/127298/9 "2002-09-06T17:03:46Z")
Think about how the clothes got there. Did clerk say to the manager “I had two more people ask for some shirts with 88 on them.” Eventually the manager would call corporate and say “We had 100 people this year ask for 88 clothes. Why don’t you print some up.”😛 More likely it is a normal brand of clothes that some professional complainer decided to get offended by. What next, complain to the moderator about all the 88s in this topic and get it moved to the Pit. :smack: Which Nazi inspired the 33 on Rolling Rock? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/88-heil-hitler-eh/127298/10 "2002-09-06T17:20:10Z")
Hm. I always thought “88” was a secret code for “Howard Hughes”. Unless… Wait! Howard Hughes was a _Nazi_!!?? :eek: And what about Harry Houdini? And all of those people who wore letter jackets in high school, who graduated in 1988? :eek: :eek: 😉 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/88-heil-hitler-eh/127298/11 "2002-09-06T17:29:02Z")
It’s fairly simple to see how they got into the store. The buyers get people in all the time pushing “the next big thing” – if one of these merchandise guys has a client who makes this neo-nazi crap, he will tell the buyer that “it’s a youth symbol.” The merchandiser may know (or not) what it really is. Target won’t say who manufactured them. The clothing in question features an “88” with skulls, and what appears to be a little human figure. The pictures I found aren’t very good. ---
**Author:** ![RiverRunner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/977dab/32.png) [@RiverRunner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RiverRunner)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/88-heil-hitler-eh/127298/12 "2002-09-06T18:08:55Z")
> [@](#): > > Note: This post contains a link to a white power record label’s website. They have a _record label_? (Thanks for the link, but I’m not about to go there.) You have got to be kidding me. I’m beginning to think I was transported to a different planet sometime recently. This is still Earth, right? This place gets stranger every day. Thanks for the info, RR ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/88-heil-hitler-eh/127298/13 "2002-09-06T18:24:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RiverRunner \* > Que? Have I missed something else? Obviously, I haven’t been keeping up with the news lately. [Come and listen to a story 'bout some morons](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020905/od_uk_nm/oukoe_tech_siemens_zyklon_3) ---
**Author:** ![jk1245](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/49beb7/32.png) [@jk1245](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jk1245)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/88-heil-hitler-eh/127298/14 "2002-09-06T18:50:51Z")
It’s actually a well-known (albeit pretty stupid) Neo-Nazi symbol. It even appeared in [American History X](http://us.imdb.com/Trivia?0120586) (allegedly). Next, be on the lookout for shirts with “13” on them. The 13th letter of the alphabet is “M” which stands for either marijuana or methamphetamine (depending on who you ask) and means the person either uses or deals (depending on who you ask). I’m sure they will be hitting malls near you soon. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/88-heil-hitler-eh/127298/15 "2002-09-06T19:44:22Z")
This whole scenario is stupid. So far, the Nazis and Neo-Nazis have been able to co-opt: [ul] [li]A whole class of variants on the cross, including variants used by Asian religions that have existed into near-prehistory.[/li][li]Anything to do with the runic alphabet used by pre-Roman Celtic and Germanic peoples, including certain Nordic mythologies.[/li][li]A complete fucking subgenre of punk rock, including the _originally nonracist_ skinhead style, something that poisons the whole genre to people who don’t know any better.[/li][li]The number eighty-eight.[/li][/ul] I think it’s time we retake what’s ours. It’s time we stopped letting them decide what the rest of us can and can’t wear. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![brad\_d](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@brad\_d](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brad_d)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/88-heil-hitler-eh/127298/16 "2002-09-06T20:53:00Z")
Well-known it may be, but not in my circles. I’d never heard of the 88 = “Heil Hitler” bit until I read the article. Neither had my wife. As such, I can totally sympathize with the dude who made the buy at Target not being aware, either. ---
**Author:** ![red\_dragon60](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@red\_dragon60](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/red_dragon60)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/88-heil-hitler-eh/127298/17 "2002-09-06T22:15:48Z")
I think it’s a pretty grabasstically long reach, much like the “311=KKK band” theory. Shirts with numbers on them are popular because the preppy look is wearing shirts with numbers and fake teams on them. I know a pod of cheerleaders who have matching shirts with 88 on them, maybe they are a front for neo-nazis… And Derleth, I am also pissed about their co-opting of the anti-racist skinhead movement. ---
**Author:** ![MarkyDeSade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@MarkyDeSade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarkyDeSade)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/88-heil-hitler-eh/127298/18 "2002-09-06T22:22:09Z")
I second that, \*\*brad\_d[/]. I had never heard of any connotation - negative or otherwise - relating to the number 88. Ahh, well, ignorance is bliss. I’m just going to keep on living as if I had never learned of such a thing. Denial? Maybe, but I think it’s a pretty stupid thing to get worked-up over. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/88-heil-hitler-eh/127298/19 "2002-09-06T22:49:55Z")
This is bad news for Lynn Swann! ---
**Author:** ![occ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8c91f0/32.png) [@occ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/occ)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/88-heil-hitler-eh/127298/20 "2002-09-06T23:03:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by starfish \* > \*\*More likely it is a normal brand of clothes that some professional complainer decided to get offended by. > \*\* I think you win the prize, here. I mean, why believe that “88” was used simply because its a very slick looking, symmetrical number when you can dubiously connect it to Hitler and Neo-Nazis? It only takes one uninformed reporter to print that this is an example of a popular Neo-Nazi graffito to stir up some faux-offense. Hell, this thread could easily be used as a “source”, and bingo, instant credibility for this. It’s not _always_ devious, organized racists. In fact, it pretty much never is. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/88-heil-hitler-eh/127298.md?page=2)