# 9/11/2001 established "Dubya" as a leader. How? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 26, 2005, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-2001-established-dubya-as-a-leader-how/318656 "2005-08-26T00:33:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-2001-established-dubya-as-a-leader-how/318656/41 "2005-08-26T15:23:39Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Yes, but he was on the air long before his official address. A good 7 hours before…snip… I don’t count his few sentences at 1pm as an address to the public. I still think he did wrong by us that day. He recovered in the following weeks. He did well with Afghanistan. He had other nations & UN aboard for it. I obviously have a large problem with his handling of Iraq. I hate him as a President for his environmental policies. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-2001-established-dubya-as-a-leader-how/318656/42 "2005-08-26T15:24:33Z")
> [@av8rmike](#): > > [This one.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=331717) But **Turek** mentioned that people were complaining of Bush’s gas use in _this_ thread. It’s a little disingenuous to post a link to a different thread where almost no one complained about the gas use in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-2001-established-dubya-as-a-leader-how/318656/43 "2005-08-26T15:26:22Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > I don’t count his few sentences at 1pm as an address to the public. Well, no. It wasn’t an address. He was saving that for when a) he had more information, and b) when his address would reach more people. If you were president on that day, what would you have done? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-2001-established-dubya-as-a-leader-how/318656/44 "2005-08-26T15:29:16Z")
**TDN** I think we need to agree to disagree on Dubya’s reactions on that day. I know I am in the minority on my view, but to me he really was running and hiding that day for way to long and should have cancelled the school event first thing. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-2001-established-dubya-as-a-leader-how/318656/45 "2005-08-26T15:37:04Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Well, no. It wasn’t an address. He was saving that for when a) he had more information, and b) when his address would reach more people. > > If you were president on that day, what would you have done? What would I have done. I would have scrambled every available fighter. I would have immediately and temporarily put out orders to escort all remaining jets in air back to nearest airport they could land at. I would have addressed the people and said I do not know what, but then I will never be president nor would I want to be. Rudy updated us hourly from early on. Pataki did the same. I expected more from the Executive branch. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-2001-established-dubya-as-a-leader-how/318656/46 "2005-08-26T16:02:41Z")
Just a note for those in the DC area who want to avoid the 4[sup]th[/sup] Anniversary stuff. I believe [Ziegfeld’s](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziegfeld's) is having one of their drag pageants that day. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-2001-established-dubya-as-a-leader-how/318656/47 "2005-08-26T16:06:43Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > What would I have done. I would have scrambled every available fighter. > I would have immediately and temporarily put out orders to escort all remaining jets in air back to nearest airport they could land at. > I would have addressed the people and said I do not know what, but then I will never be president nor would I want to be. I believe that fighters were already scrambled. And I think the logistics of escorting every single plane in the air at the time would have been pretty much impossible. Not to defend Bush, but if I were president I wouldn’t have done much different, other than panicking a whole lot more. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-2001-established-dubya-as-a-leader-how/318656/48 "2005-08-26T16:12:43Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > But if just calling my statement stupid is easier for you, have fun. Now you’re just being bitchy. A professional knows what they’re doing. A President, typically, is a layman compared to all the people around him at their very own specialties. The Secret Service knows security. Did he ignore their expertise? It doesn’t look like it. Dubya didn’t pretend to know better than them. The CIA knows intelligence. Did he ignore their expertise? Yup. Dubya pretended to know better then. I agree with you that after the attacks were over having him run and cower was cowardly - but that’s what I’d expect from the likes of him and Cheney. But at the time of the attacks? That’s a moment of Immediate Danger\* - and the SS should, rightly, be calling the shots regarding where the President goes. -Joe \*ID to me meaning a few hours, tops ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-2001-established-dubya-as-a-leader-how/318656/49 "2005-08-26T16:17:30Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > I believe that fighters were already scrambled. And I think the logistics of escorting every single plane in the air at the time would have been pretty much impossible. > > Not to defend Bush, but if I were president I wouldn’t have done much different, other than panicking a whole lot more. I completely agree with your last statement, I would have been panicking a whole lot more also. As to the First, it took a long time to scramble the fighters, I don’t know if this was Dubya’s fault or just Air Force not being prepared. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-2001-established-dubya-as-a-leader-how/318656/50 "2005-08-26T16:24:22Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > As to the First, it took a long time to scramble the fighters, I don’t know if this was Dubya’s fault or just Air Force not being prepared. If someone can check my facts here, I’d appreciate it. I admit to ignorance on this. But I thought I heard that fighter jets were in the air pretty quickly, but they couldn’t get to where they had to be fast enough. And I’m sure there was a good window of lost opportunity where they had no idea what was going on. At the time it was inconceivable that terrorists would use planes in that way. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-2001-established-dubya-as-a-leader-how/318656/51 "2005-08-26T16:27:40Z")
I remember feeling incredibly inspired by Giuliani and incredibly disappointed by Bush. He stayed away, out of touch with the American people, for too long, and when he did speak, to me he sounded confused, incoherent, and veangeful. He made a lot of angry, defiant noise, instead of finding depths within himself (which I now think he utterly lacks) to also bring solace and confidence to the American people. “Forceful, decisive leader.” Bah. A dog barking is comparably “forceful and decisive.” I didn’t expect much from him at Sept. 11, but I had hoped for more. In vain. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-2001-established-dubya-as-a-leader-how/318656/52 "2005-08-26T17:18:47Z")
I have no dog in this race, as he isn’t my president, but my take on Bush’s reaction to 9/11 is that here was a man used to relying on his advisors to tell him how to react and what to do for anything important, and, absent said advisors, he didn’t know what he should do and finally seized on the Secret Service demands as a rope in a storm. You must recognize that the Secret Service’s number 1 priority in any crisis such as this is keeping the President safe. Letting him actually run the country is a distant second. A President who doesn’t understand this and overrule the SS when warranted is not a leader. (Not that our present PM is any shakes in the Churchill replacement contest :rolleyes: ) ---
**Author:** ![Bob\_Scene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Bob\_Scene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob_Scene)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-2001-established-dubya-as-a-leader-how/318656/53 "2005-08-27T00:27:12Z")
Bush’s longer-term response to the attacks was masterful and truly established him as a leader of the highest quality. As you will remember, Bush **immediately** launched a full-scale congressional investigation into what happened that day, and the intelligence failures that allowed it to happen. Heads ROLLED at the intelligence agencies that knew that there were Al Qaeda terrorists in this country and failed to act, and the INS **immediately** tightened controls on the entry of suspected terrorists into the country. Thanks to Bush’s leadership, the intelligence apparatus in this country was immediately overhauled and a new framework was put into place that allowed for the integration of intelligence from different sources into a comprehensive terrorist-fighting network. This is just what any intelligent taxpayer would expect, and Bush excelled at the task. Huh? What’s that you say? You’re telling me that the above is a delusional hallucination? You’re saying that Bush dragged his feet on a congressional investigation of 9/11? Do you really mean to say that heads NEVER rolled at the intelligence agencies for their negligence in allowing 9/11 to happen? FBI agents that warned of the impending attacks were ignored and Bush didn’t immediately fire everybody involved? And, what? You’re saying that the response to 9/11 was so ineffective that six months AFTER the attacks the INS issued student visas to two of the hijackers to allow them to go to pilot school?! You’re trying to tell me that four years later, the intelligence system in this country STILL hasn’t sufficiently adapted to what happened that day? Well, let me tell you something, Mr. I HATE AMERICA Liberal naysayer: **CLINTON GOT A BLOWJOB!** ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-2001-established-dubya-as-a-leader-how/318656/54 "2005-08-27T03:32:46Z")
Bob, baby, where have you been all my life? ---
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-2001-established-dubya-as-a-leader-how/318656/55 "2005-08-27T04:00:47Z")
> [@Bob Scene](#): > > Well, let me tell you something, Mr. I HATE AMERICA Liberal naysayer: > > **CLINTON GOT A BLOWJOB!** I don’t hate America and The Liberal party just plain sucks… Those bastards robbed the country and are and will get away with it. You did use the Capital L so I’m supposing you are refering to the Liberal paty of Canada. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-2001-established-dubya-as-a-leader-how/318656/56 "2005-08-27T04:49:06Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > At the time it was inconceivable that terrorists would use planes in that way. Inconceivable? **Inconceivable?!?!?** The CIA knew TWO FULL YEARS BEFORE 9/11 that it was one of Al Queda’s plans! [http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/18/attack/main509488.shtml](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/18/attack/main509488.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-2001-established-dubya-as-a-leader-how/318656/57 "2005-08-27T04:55:57Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > At the time it was inconceivable that terrorists would use planes in that way. You keep using that word… ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-2001-established-dubya-as-a-leader-how/318656/58 "2005-08-27T05:33:18Z")
**Bob Scene** Interesting posting you made there. Sure, the USA’s intelligence-gathering abilities have not been improved over the last 4 years but don’t forget (unless you live in Massachusetts), that gay couple down the street from you can’t get married. And _that_ makes the world sleep a little safer each night. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-2001-established-dubya-as-a-leader-how/318656/59 "2005-08-27T05:58:22Z")
> [@wolf\_meister](#): > > **Franklin Roosevelt** (1st inaugural address during the Great Depression) stated that “this great nation _will_ endure as it _has_ endured”. Did someone just say, “Stay the course!” > [@wolf\_meister](#): > > **FDR** in 2nd inaugural address (Great Depression still going strong) “this generation of Americans has a rendezvous with destiny”. Yawn. > [@wolf\_meister](#): > > **Winston Churchil** l stated (when England was getting the Hell bombed out of it by Germany) that “We will fight in the alleyways. We will fight in the streets. We will fight until the battle is won! We will never give up!” > [@](#): > > “I will fight in front of Paris, I will fight in Paris, I will fight behind Paris”? Clemenceau (1914) > [@](#): > > On June 10, 1940 the French Premier, Paul Reynaud,… said that the French would fight in front of Paris; would fight behind Paris; would close themselves in one of their provinces to fight and if driven out of it would establish themselves in North Africa to continue the fight, and if necessary, in French possessions in America. > [@](#): > > On 4 June 1940, after Dunkirk, Churchill gave his famous speech “We shall fight on the beaches…” As the House of Commons cheered, what did Churchill whisper in an aside to a colleague? “…and we’ll fight them with the butt ends of broken beer bottles, because that’s bloody well all we’ve got.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-2001-established-dubya-as-a-leader-how/318656/60 "2005-08-27T05:58:29Z")
> [@kingpengvin](#): > > …You did use the Capital L so I’m supposing you are refering to the Liberal paty of Canada. Canada’s got politics? Who knew? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-2001-established-dubya-as-a-leader-how/318656.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-2001-established-dubya-as-a-leader-how/318656.md?page=4)