# 9/11 Conspiracy Theories! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 26, 2006, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948 "2006-03-26T10:02:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Dob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Dob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dob)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/282 "2006-04-06T22:11:42Z")
**Sent** , i still want you to answer my question from page 1! Putting all this evidence aside, estimate for me how many people you think it would take to pull this off. Then, please, please, explain to me how they are now all being kept quiet about it, and will continue to be kept quiet about it. I want you to think on every US Govt program that has been made public, that the Govt didnt want to make public, and explain how the Govt…OUR US Govt…lead by GWB…who cannot even pronunce nuclear correctly…is keeping any shred of real proof from coming out. I really want your thoughts on this. ---
**Author:** ![Sent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Sent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sent)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/283 "2006-04-06T22:18:48Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I’m unsure whether these, er, guys have even bothered reading the myriad cites provide to them. I have read numerous detailed engineering reports attempting to prove the pancake theory, all of them ignored the manner of collapse. I read everything that everyone in this thread linked to…did you read everything I linked to? Most of my relevant information was ignored as well. It’s you who should do a little more reading. > [@](#): > > without a critical thought in their bodies. Ha! This video alone should result in an uproar due to conspiracy involving one Richard Cheney, Vice President of the United States of America. [http://www.911truthmovement.org/video/hamilton\_win.wmv](http://www.911truthmovement.org/video/hamilton_win.wmv) The 9/11 Omission Commission decided this wasn’t appropriate to their “investigation”. I would like to know- DO WHAT ORDERS STILL STAND?! ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/284 "2006-04-06T22:28:10Z")
(just can’t help myself) One (serious) question I have for either of the two CT’s still in this thread is…from your own sites and based on the theory that the towers were brought down via explosives, how much explosive do you estimate it would take to cause the kind of damage you are claiming happened? In your theory, aproximately how many load bearing members would have needed to be taken out with your thermite, how much thermite per load bearing member? If thermite is your theories explosive of choice then a theory on how it was used without exposing the load bearing members would be nice too. It seems to me that your theory also has explosions (well, unless you are using thermite) on multiple floors as well. Exactly how many floors are we talking about, based on your theory. PLEASE…no photo’s, no blurry video. I want a straight answer…even if the straight answer is ‘um, well our theory really doesn’t go into all that pesky detail stuff’. If your theory DOES have an answer (even if its an estimate), try and focus on just answering the question directly. i.e. ‘You’d need to take out X number of load bearing supports, with an estimate of Y lbs/kgs of explosive needed. Our theory estimates that a minimum of Z floors had explosive devices on them in order to bring the buildings down’. Something like that please. And I don’t want YOUR estimate…I want the estimate from the, er, ‘experts’ pushing the theory you are defending. -XT ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/285 "2006-04-06T22:30:08Z")
> [@Sent](#): > > Explain the bombs found in the A.P. Murrah building…you can’t wiggle your way out of that. > [@](#): > > As I watch local news video footage of the BATF going into the Murrah building to retrieve the bombs, see the news reporter speaking of a delay in reaching the survivors because we have to wait until they get the other bombs out, see discussions later that day on the local news of the type of bombs that were found, the admissions by federal officials that these were in their posession and had been diffused, do you really expect me to believe that this was all a mistake “as we often find with initial reports”? Basically, yes. There was an incident at Cleveland State University a couple of years back in which some nut walked in to a building and shot some people. During the crisis, the building and many blocks around it were shut down, but the media saturated the area. Before the end of the incident, we were told (with video along with claims that the information had originated with the police to support the claims) that there were multiple shooters, that there were sniper attacks from the building at the people outside, and that the shooter(s) was(were) roaming the building shooting people. When the dust settled, it was discovered that a single shooter, armed only with a handgun, shot a few people against whom he had grudges, and then went and sat in a classroom or restroom until he was discovered by police doing a room-to-room search. He had never had or used a rifle and had never pointed a gun out a window. If you go back to the threads that were posted on this site during the morning and afternoon of September 11, 2001, you will find many people re-posting information from Washington, D.C. about attacks on bridges over the Potomac, buildings other than the Pentagon in flames, and reports of other sabotage efforts that either occurred or were thwarted. None of those events turned out to be true, even though the sources were often film crews talking to people that were supposedly directly involved. I was in a taxi going to O’Hare in Chicago about a year prior to the WTC/Pentagon attacks. As we pulled up in front of the concourse, we found dozens of police cars and hundreds of people lining the sidewalk outside the terminal building. That is exactly the whole of what the taxi driver and I knew–lots of cop cars and lots of pedestrians. The taxi guy called in to his dispatcher to report a problem at O’Hare and gave a quite detailed description of the fact that there had been a shooting at the airport and the police had locked it down and were examining people for weapons. The reality (it later turned out) was that some fool in a hurry had gone around the metal detectors and ducked into a service passageway. No guns, no bloodshed, no search for a non-existent gunman. Just an excitable idiot with a radio inventing tales in his ignorance. In the chaos of a disaster, a lot of things get said that turn out to be false. The “bomb” reports from the Murrah building could have been the results of “typical” confusion, efforts by news reporters to “report” what was, basically, their own (groundless) speculation, reports by police that were either careless speculation (_there is a reason police departments hire professional spokespersons; cops are not actually trained in choosing their words in public_) or even a smart-assed comment to get a reporter to go away when the cop did not realize that the reporter would believe a bad joke. The bomb squads probably were at Murrah and probably did pick stuff up. However, they were as likely to be handling suspicious looking but ultimately innocuous containers prudently as actually removing bombs. (And NOT ONE of those bomb squad guys has raised their voice in outrage that the government “denied” what they were doing.) ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/286 "2006-04-06T22:33:27Z")
Another stunning example of incompetence it was left to the VP to give the orders to shoot down hijacked planes, and these orders were not passed on correctly: > [@](#): > > Within minutes, Cheney would use his authority. Told – erroneously, as it turned out – that a presumably hijacked aircraft was 80 miles from Washington, Cheney decided “in about the time it takes a batter to swing” to authorize fighter jets scrambled from Langley Air Force Base in Hampton, Va., to engage it, the commission reported. > > Only later did White House Deputy Chief of Staff Joshua B. Bolten suggest that Cheney call Bush once more to confirm the engagement order, according to the commission. Logs in Cheney’s bunker and on Air Force One confirm conversations at 10:18 and 10:20, respectively. > > Later, Cheney spoke to Rumsfeld via videoconference. When the vice president said the orders had been relayed to the jets and “a couple of aircraft” had been downed, Rumsfeld replied: “We can’t confirm that. We’re told that one aircraft is down but we do not have a pilot report that they did it.” > > But the commission determined that the Langley fighter jets sent to circle Washington never received the shoot-down order. It was passed down the chain of command, but commanders of the North American Aerospace Defense Command’s northeast sector did not give it to the pilots. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50745-2004Jun17.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50745-2004Jun17.html) If the reaction had been flawless and the executive branch had come out looking masterful and efficent, they this would support your theory. They don’t, they come out looking like the bunch of incompetent half wits they are. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/287 "2006-04-06T22:35:05Z")
In a follow up to my own post on trying to get the CT’s to actually engage in the debate, if anyone from the theory you are defending actually has a floor plan of WHICH load bearing members were (or could have been) taken out per floor, that would be quite helpful as well. Thanks in advance…I’m certain you guys will rush right out to gather the info so we can proceed. 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![Sent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Sent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sent)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/288 "2006-04-06T22:40:41Z")
> [@Dob](#): > > **Sent** , i still want you to answer my question from page 1! > > Putting all this evidence aside, estimate for me how many people you think it would take to pull this off. Then, please, please, explain to me how they are now all being kept quiet about it, and will continue to be kept quiet about it. > > I want you to think on every US Govt program that has been made public, that the Govt didnt want to make public, and explain how the Govt…OUR US Govt…lead by GWB…who cannot even pronunce nuclear correctly…is keeping any shred of real proof from coming out. > > I really want your thoughts on this. You still do not understand compartmentalization, this is why you subscribe to “too many conspirators”. There is no way for me to know of all the people who had direct foreknowledge, and it is likely that very, very few knew all the complete details of the plan. It would only take 5-10 men to plant the explosives, and a few to plan it. Innocent pretexts can be devised to do most of the work. To ensure the failure of our air defenses, Cheney had all authority transferred to him that had never before been in the hands of a non-military official, there is a memo proving this. The rules regarding who had authority to scramble fighters were changed. Only a few individuals needed to be involved in ordering the apparently innocent war games of planes being hijacked and being flown into buildings…the NORAD and FAA and other Air Force people just did their normal jobs and didn’t know what was going on. There are indications false blips were inserted onto the radar screens with software tampering to add to the confusion. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/289 "2006-04-06T22:47:38Z")
> [@Sent](#): > > I have read numerous detailed engineering reports attempting to prove the pancake theory, all of them ignored the manner of collapse. I read everything that everyone in this thread linked to…did you read everything I linked to? Most of my relevant information was ignored as well. It’s you who should do a little more reading. In fact I HAVE read (and looked at and watched) nearly every link EVERYONE has posted in this thread…I’ve at least skimmed them. If you will give me the post number of what you felt was important and a brief description of what I should be looking for, or if you will repost the link with a quote of the part you find the most critical I’d be more than happy to look at it again. To return the favor, I’d like you to review the link in my post #113 and tell me how this in any way ‘ignored the manner of collapse’. Also, if you would, comment on what you find hard to believe about the fire explaination. I’m looking for specifics. I will give YOU specifics if you will point me back to the post number and link you wish me to comment about. Oh, and if you could russle up that data I’m asking for in posts 283 and 286 I think it would be helpful to the discussion. Thanks! 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/290 "2006-04-06T23:04:40Z")
> [@Sent](#): > > There is no way for me to know of all the people who had direct foreknowledge, and it is likely that very, very few knew all the complete details of the plan. It would only take 5-10 men to plant the explosives, and a few to plan it. And who were reponsible for getting 19 men into this country, training them to not only fly but fly a large plane into a specific spot so precicely as not to set off any planted explosives, getting them onto flights out of New York and Boston prior to 9/11 so they could workout their details, etc.? > [@](#): > > _Innocent pretexts can be devised to do most of the work. To ensure the failure of our air defenses, Cheney had all authority transferred to him that had never before been in the hands of a non-military official, there is a memo proving this._ What memo? Where? > [@](#): > > _The rules regarding who had authority to scramble fighters were changed._ How’d Flight 93 get shot down? Where’d the missile come from that impacted the Pentagon? > [@](#): > > _Only a few individuals needed to be involved in ordering the apparently innocent war games of planes being hijacked and being flown into buildings…_ _A_ building in Chantilly, VA. Virginia isn’t near New York; MD, PA, DE, & NJ are all inbetween. > [@](#): > > _There are indications false blips were inserted onto the radar screens with software tampering to add to the confusion._ Who tampered with the software? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/291 "2006-04-06T23:08:23Z")
> [@Sent](#): > > > [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > > > Failing that, all you have is a bunch of stuff that may or may not be what you claim, leaving both sides at an impass. > > Well then, with respect to you in this matter Skywatcher I rest my case and I see no reason to respond to anything further by someone foolish enough to refuse even the possibility of conspiracy without a detailed, thorough admission on the part of the conspirators! The “bunch of stuff” you refuse to see is what is called a prima facie case leading to full-blown investigation of conspiracy. I’ve seen “prima facie” cases made, with merit equal to the cases demonstrated by **Sent** and **bigpappadiaz** , proving the existence of a Bigfoot/Yeti clan, the Loch Ness Monster, and the Moon Landing Hoax. Not surprising, all the supporters of these _undisputable_ proofs think those who fail to see are ignoramuses (ignoramii? - help me out here, Dopers). Is there some CT handbook on how to treat non-believers? Some secret Illuminati handshake we’re all missing? Jeez, you’d think we would have learned from so much sparring with **lekatt**. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/292 "2006-04-06T23:09:28Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Basically, yes. There was an incident at Cleveland State University a couple of years back in which some nut walked in to a building and shot some people. During the crisis, the building and many blocks around it were shut down, but the media saturated the area. Before the end of the incident, we were told (with video along with claims that the information had originated with the police to support the claims) that there were multiple shooters, that there were sniper attacks from the building at the people outside, and that the shooter(s) was(were) roaming the building shooting people. When the dust settled, it was discovered that a single shooter, armed only with a handgun, shot a few people against whom he had grudges, and then went and sat in a classroom or restroom until he was discovered by police doing a room-to-room search. He had never had or used a rifle and had never pointed a gun out a window. And reports of the DC snipers had everyone running around being suspicious of white vans. What were the suspects finally found in? A maroon sedan! ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/293 "2006-04-06T23:16:23Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Is there some CT handbook on how to treat non-believers? Some secret Illuminati handshake we’re all missing? Certainly looks that way. They all use some variation of: “You have to work hard to put the pieces together yourself, and think for yourself.” Never mind that _they_ don’t bother with thinking for themselves. All they can do is repeat the same lines spouted by their fellow theorists. Do any of them have one iota of solid evidence (_not_ opinion, conjecture, or hypotheses)? Of course not, but that doesn’t stop them from repeating those lines. They’re all in the same reality tunnel and, to them, anyone not in that tunnel is a fool. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/294 "2006-04-06T23:20:26Z")
> [@Sent](#): > > It would only take 5-10 men to plant the explosives, and a few to plan it. Innocent pretexts can be devised to do most of the work. To ensure the failure of our air defenses, Cheney had all authority transferred to him that had never before been in the hands of a non-military official, there is a memo proving this. The rules regarding who had authority to scramble fighters were changed. Only a few individuals needed to be involved in ordering the apparently innocent war games of planes being hijacked and being flown into buildings…the NORAD and FAA and other Air Force people just did their normal jobs and didn’t know what was going on. There are indications false blips were inserted onto the radar screens with software tampering to add to the confusion. I’m sorry…you obtained your expertise on demolition Government military authority and chain of command radar software NORAD the FAA from…where exactly? It’s like the guys in my office arguing both sides of the “controlled demolition” theory. Hey dumbtards!\* I’m the only person in this office who has a degree in structural engineering and is even remotely qualified to offer an educated opinion on how a skyscrapper should or should not collapse…and I barely know! \*speaking to my coworkers, not you folks ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/295 "2006-04-06T23:26:15Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > It’s like the guys in my office arguing both sides of the “controlled demolition” theory. Hey dumbtards!\* I’m the only person in this office who has a degree in structural engineering and is even remotely qualified to offer an educated opinion on how a skyscrapper should or should not collapse…and I barely know! You mean that hour special on the Discovery Channel doesn’t qualify me? Oh man, I thought I was an expert on so many subjects. Heck, I enjoyed _The Deadliest Catch_ so much and watched so intently, I was going to hire out as an experienced hand next season! (I also really like _24_ - be afraid…be very afraid). ---
**Author:** ![bigpappadiaz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a698b9/32.png) [@bigpappadiaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bigpappadiaz)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/296 "2006-04-07T00:10:04Z")
Oh yes! Please, continue disbelieving. I know the time will come when the truth comes out, but it probably won’t be until each and every American are flat on thier ass broke and their way of comfortable way of life is gone. Until then I’ll keep arguing. > [@](#): > > One more point: I have now reviewed all the links and I find no evidence of “molten” steel–which, as already noted, is irrelevant since there is no claim that the steel “melted” resulting in the collapses. The claims have all been that the steel was weakened and was unable to hold its shape or rigidity. Finding glowing metal (even steel) several weeks after having been placed in the “banked oven” of the rubble should not be a surprise to anyone and does not provide any challenge to the description of the buildings’ collapse. The color of the metal tells you how hot it is. The claim is that the buildings were taken down Demo-style, and that thermite was used to cut through the steel. The fact that the metal is close to yellow glowing hot, when it was only barely exposed to burning jet fuel (NIST officially stated that the jet fuel burned off within minutes) makes it relevant. > [@](#): > > In fact, there’s never been a full-scale model of a 110-story building having a passenger jet loaded with fuel crash into it, so we don’t really know what would happen, would we? Not exactly, but we can use our brains and ponder it. The NIST report even admits that its computer model was tweaked over and over so that they could finally get it to the point of collapse, but that’s it. Not how they actually collapsed. The “loaded with fuel” part sounds more dramatic than it actually is. Most of the fuel was burned off in the initial impact and impressive fireball, the rest burned off in about 10, 15 minutes. They also don’t take into consideration how the buildings fell or anything like that. In the footage of the South Tower’s collapse, you very clearly see it tilting and getting ready to tip over when all of a sudden everything underneath it turns to dust. > [@](#): > > And who were reponsible for getting 19 men into this country, training them to not only fly but fly a large plane into a specific spot so precicely as not to set off any planted explosives, getting them onto flights out of New York and Boston prior to 9/11 so they could workout their details, etc.? I think the number 19 has been lowered, since some of those guys have turned up elsewhere in the world alive and well. They were probably surprised to see themselves on TV. **Besides, can someone show me a reputable site that denies the molten steel existed?** ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/297 "2006-04-07T00:28:43Z")
> [@](#): > > The color of the metal tells you how hot it is. The claim is that the buildings were taken down Demo-style, and that thermite was used to cut through the steel. The fact that the metal is close to yellow glowing hot, when it was only barely exposed to burning jet fuel (NIST officially stated that the jet fuel burned off within minutes) makes it relevant. So, it is your position that a bunch of not-really-identified burning stuff falling from the edge of the building (where there was no structural support) is evidence that someone set a “demolition” of the building? Given the difficulty of setting enough charges to bring down the core, why did they waste time and effort finding ways to set the charges around the perimeter? You are the one who pointed out that the tower appeared to fall from the center, outward which is exactly consistent with the report of the government, yet you want to make a big deal about irrelevant stuff on the fringes of the building and cry “Conspiracy!” You might want to examine your position for “Consistency!”. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/298 "2006-04-07T00:30:45Z")
> [@bigpappadiaz](#): > > I think the number 19 has been lowered, since some of those guys have turned up elsewhere in the world alive and well. Do you actually happen to have any proof that any of those 19 hijackers has turned up elsewhere in the world? A simple ‘yes’ or ‘no’ will suffice. If you care to answer with ‘yes,’ then, no doubt, everyone else in this thread will be delighted to see it. If you care to answer with ‘no,’ then be prepared for the ensuing Pit thread. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/299 "2006-04-07T00:39:19Z")
_Addendum to Post #297_ If you care to answer with ‘yes’ and then post “cites” that are demonstrably untrue, then be prepared for the ensuing Pit thread. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/300 "2006-04-07T00:40:50Z")
> [@](#): > > I think the number 19 has been lowered, since some of those guys have turned up elsewhere in the world alive and well. They were probably surprised to see themselves on TV. No, the number stayed the same. It was, however, discovered that a couple of them had been using stolen identities, so that the original published names included some errors. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/301 "2006-04-07T01:01:57Z")
> [@bigpappadiaz](#): > > I know the time will come when the truth comes out, but it probably won’t be until each and every American are flat on thier ass broke and their way of comfortable way of life is gone. Where is this “truth” you speak of? All you’ve shown is is a bunch of opinion, conjecture, and hypotheses, all of which may or may not be true. I don’t know about you but I prefer to put _my_ faith in what can be deomonstrated by fact whereas your faith is in opinion, conjecture, and hypotheses. > [@](#): > > _Besides, can someone show me a reputable site that denies the molten steel existed?_ Assuming molten steel did exist, there’s no way to know that it came from the collapse or from the oven effect that **tom** mentioned earlier. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948.md?page=16)