# 9/11 Conspiracy Theories! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 26, 2006, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948 "2006-03-26T10:02:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/342 "2006-04-07T14:28:14Z")
> [@Greenback](#): > > WHA? Cite! > Sorry. This thread is become too painful to read. Keep up the good fight all. Many believe that OBL knew of the plan based on videos of him presumably taken during the attacks. But he, too, is just a tool of the Washingtonian cabal really running things. They’re the ones who planted the idea, funded OBL cells, and provided the tools, access, and knowledge necessary to plant explosives high up in a building, have them survive a fully fueled jet impact, and then detonate them (wirelessly, of course) to cause a controlled fall beginning 70 floors above ground level. Now if we could just determine the roles Bill Gates and Rupert Murdoch played, all the pieces will fall into place and the whole conspiracy will be blown W I D E open. The American people, freed from the clouding of our perceptions, will march on Washington, overthrow the regime, and a new American government will rise from the ashes. What will be the first orders of business for this new regime? To admit to the faking of the moon landing, the true reasons for flouridating water, and the government conspiracy to put DHMO in _every_ American household. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/343 "2006-04-07T14:49:29Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > It’s becoming unclear to me what role you think the U.S. military played in all of this? Were they planning the attack, or prevented from defending against it? The Cheney memo you cite clearly puts control of “law enforcement activity” concerning hijacked aircraft (military and civil) under the FAA, with the military directed to provide assistance. Is senior military authority involved in this at all? It’s not even a Cheney memo. It’s a Rumsfeld memo from the Joint Chiefs. ---
**Author:** ![Dob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Dob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dob)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/344 "2006-04-07T15:01:40Z")
Everything else aside, you have to give **Sent** a nod for passion. He hasnt backed down and contuies the debate…such as it is. He seems to truly believe what he is saying. As a slight hi-jack, I wonder if there are any CT that you dont believe in Sent? JFK? Pearl Harbor? Area51? Moon Landings? Lincoln? AIDS? Clinton killing some 58 close associates during his Presidency? MLK? Govt. shiping drugs/guns into black neighborhoods? I have heard CT on all of these topics. Where do you stand? ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/345 "2006-04-07T15:26:59Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Look, you can’t have it both ways. It takes **trained** people to wire a building to implode. Actually, on another forum (JREF), I’ve seen one CT advocate get around the need to wire the building to implode in the weeks/months before 9/11. He said that the buildings could have been rigged with explosives _at the time they were built_. I’m not joking - I’m not creative enough to make this stuff up. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/346 "2006-04-07T16:18:46Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > Actually, on another forum (JREF), I’ve seen one CT advocate get around the need to wire the building to implode in the weeks/months before 9/11. He said that the buildings could have been rigged with explosives _at the time they were built_. I’m not joking - I’m not creative enough to make this stuff up. :smack: Why didn’t I see that? Now all the pieces are coming together! Now I’m involved, as Mrs. D\_Odds works for a Larry Silverstein company. Mr. Silverstein, as any CT can tell you, was the lease holder, and he stands to make out well from the insurance. Of course, he and all other Jewish people working downtown were not present that day, having been told to avoid the WTC. Now I know. I can’t go home tonight…_they_ might be waiting. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/347 "2006-04-07T18:03:23Z")
> [@Sent](#): > > Well that’s the beauty of it, for someone who actually does want to carry out a real attack. Under various innocent pretexts, including preparing for possible terrorists attacks, you can actually plan and refine plans for your own terrorist attacks. Who even among those in relatively high positions would be the wiser? You can even plan drills for the very thing you are planning to do on the very day you are planning to do it to confuse your people to the extent they are unable to defend against it. I have a much higher regard for U.S. military personnel than the rest of you apparently do, I don’t think they are at all incompetent in what they do, and they would have done the very thing they are trained to do that day had they not been intentionally prevented from doing it. > > Another good way to help things work smoothly if you are planning to assist and direct a large-scale terrorist attack against your own nation is to prepare a memo directing unprecendented transfer of control of air defenses over to yourself in the event of a hijacking like [Dick Cheney did in this June 1, 2001 Document.](http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/cjcsd/cjcsi/3610_01a.pdf) Ah, now we come to the “hide-in-plain-sight” method of conspiracy favored by the Illuminati and Tri-Lateral Commission. No need for elaborate planning – just dust off a contingency study from 25 years earlier, wait until we can get a clueless boob elected as President, install our people in a few key positions, hire some disaffected Middle Easterners to pin the blame on and we’re in business. And when a few FBI agents who aren’t in on the plot start to figure out something is up, we’ll simply ignore their warnings. So what if the lame, post-tragedy investigation makes us look incompetent, it’s all part of the master plan of _misdirection._ We will have achieved our ultimate goal of… I’m sorry, what was the ultimate goal again? No matter, we stole enough votes in Ohio in 2004 to get the boob re-elected, which means we have a couple more years to solidify our power. The best thing is, we didn’t even need to come up with the _idea_ of hide-in-plain-sight. That was all spelled out in 1959 by a man named [Richard Condon](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Condon). He wrote _The Manchurian Candidate._ ---
**Author:** ![bigpappadiaz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a698b9/32.png) [@bigpappadiaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bigpappadiaz)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/348 "2006-04-07T18:58:36Z")
> [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Can you find a reputable source that states there was no molten steel? > > Can you find a reputable source that states there were no ice caves beneath the WTC? You tried but couldn’t, right? Anybody else care to try, and then come up with a better excuse than “Well you can’t prove unicorns don’t exist can you?” Maybe one of your 9/11 debunking sites has something on this? > [@](#): > > 1. No one would have dared to float such a plan even for discussion purposes. You get fired for stuff like that. Look what happened to the Northwoods guys, and those were going to be feigned attacks. Wow, you got no clue how the world goes round, do you? This first reason is bunk just because of itself. “No one would have dared suggest blowing up the world trade center! They would have gotten fired.” Unless they were already discussing what they would have to do to get Americans to hate Muslims, and Vice Versa. > [@](#): > > Think what you will of Bush/Cheney, and I don’t like them one little bit, to suggest they ordered the murder of thousands of civilians for something as trivial as an oil pipeline is ludicrous and outrageous. And becomes no less so by infinite repetition. Whereas the terrorists’ motives are perfectly clear. Yeah, that is pretty ludicrous. Crap like that is thrown out there so people like you can read it and think _any_ conspiracy theory concerning the WTC is crazy. The problem here is that you can’t understand why something like this would be carried out, and you think that we all think it was about the money. It’s easier for you to understand why some terrorists would want to carry the plan out, however. You’re lacking foresight, and one only has to look at where the world is headed to fit this demolition into the “big picture.” > [@](#): > > There’s no way the military and/or CIA could have pulled off an operation of this complexity. Name any similarly-sized undertaking in the last thirty years that worked. Doesn’t have to be a secret one. Yes there’s a way, and they did. The Oklahoma City bombing was pulled off pretty damn well, and there’s all sorts of things that went on there that would make you scratch your head. That was a full-on government building, too. We also helped Saddam rise to power, trained Osama, and did all sorts of other things around the world. Anything really spectacular, though, you won’t find a US name tag on. We got to keep that under the table. > [@](#): > > 1. There’s no way an undercover operation of this scope hasn’t been blown. You don’t understand what’s going on, so there’s no way you can judge the importance of these events or understand why it had to happen, why there has to be so much secrecy. Something big’s going down worldwide, you’re not in on it, so you can’t understand why it’s so easy for these guys to keep their mouth shut. What would compell a team of men to blow up a building full of people? Use a little foresight, look around the world, and read between the lines. Shit’s gonna hit the fan soon. > [@](#): > > 1. If such a plan had been developed, it would have been directed at Saddam, not bin Laden. We invaded both countries, right? Didn’t they say Bin Laden was hiding in Iraq, and all sorts of other dribble? We can chase this guy all over the middle east, pissing off all the Muslims we can all the way over that place. > [@](#): > > 1. The alleged plan is stupid. What if the Taliban had turned bin Laden over? Or arranged for asylum in some other country? The whole thing would have been for nothing. The Taliban _didn’t_ turn bin Laden over, in fact nobody even found him there. So who’s to say bin Laden was even in Afghanistan? This situation never happened, so I guess they’d already thought of that, huh? He’s probably getting his nails done somewhere in the Netherlands, or Saudi Arabia. > [@](#): > > 1. If there were a plot, the President wouldn’t have been caught flat-footed in a Florida classroom. Wow, with you thinking the way you are, I guess the President getting caught flat-footed in a classroom was the best approach! Make it seem casual, business as usual. Where else would he be, his top secret command center in the middle of some mountain directing the planes? > [@](#): > > 1. Barbara Olson, wife of Bush’s Solicitor General (who argued the election case to the Supreme Court), was on United Flight #77. OoOOOo, how convenient. An official’s wife was on board, therefore it couldn’t have been conspiracy! I think they’d enjoy something like this, as it adds credibility to the official story. I wonder how the Solicitor General thinks about this? I think the passenger list was pretty suspect, too. > [@](#): > > 1. How did we manage to lure so many al Qaeda operatives onto just four flights, all on the same morning? We didn’t. We blamed a bunch of already-dead Arabs for these attacks, some of whom may actually even be alive in other countries. > [@](#): > > 1. Why bother with WTC 7 at all? (In which, remember, the CIA, etc. had offices.) Who knows? Maybe somebody had a grudge against some CIA operatives, that seems to be going around these days. You know, like the outing of Valerie Plame which subsequently outed the CIA front company she worked for Brewster Jennings & Associates and all the CIA operatives who also worked for this front company, but you never thought that far into it did you? > [@](#): > > 11, Why four planes and why hit anything? Recruit one cell of Iraqis; have them hijack one jet; fly around for a while, implicating Saddam with demands; next, threaten to fly into the WTC. Prez reluctantly authorizes taking it down. Then angrily demands a declaration of war, which he receives in hours. That wouldn’t be good enough. You heard the reactions of people as those towers went crashing down. They went from casual talk and surpise to OH MY GOD!!! OOOOHH MY GOD!!! OH NOOO, OOOHH GOD NOOO!!! That really stirred up the hatred. It’s the symbol of one of our greatest accomplishments, and a few terrorists knocked it down. We’ll never be safe again. > [@](#): > > 1. Why waste a plane on the Pentagon? To al Qaeda, it’s an important symbol of their principal point of contact with the U.S. (the military). Not nearly so compelling, from a domestic propaganda standpoint, as dozens of other targets which could be named. Why not crash into the White House? That seems like more of a blow than any Pentagon hit would. The plane crashed into ONI’s headquarters, or at least their section of the Pentagon. > [@](#): > > 1. Taking down the towers with both planes and explosives would have been stupid. Greatly increased risk of failure and/or breach of security for very little additional propaganda value. They couldn’t of taken down the towers with just the planes, which is why they also used explosives. How would it have increased their risk of failure? There are smart people who can use their brains to figure out how to make this work, especially if they know where the plane is going to hit. Don’t put explosives there, you see? Problem solved. They also wanted people to believe Arab terrorists did it, so they used the planes. > [@](#): > > 1. Where did all the thousands of pieces of evidence implicating al Qaeda come from? How was it successfully planted in so many locations? Over what period of time? How many people are in on this? Thousands of piece of evidence? Wow! I had no idea there was that much evidence. The car with the back pack and stuff? Planted. The passport that flew out of the guy’s pocket as he was crashing into the building, that flew through the fireball that destroyed all the black boxes and flew onto the street below? Planted. The passport they found at the Pentagon in the wreckage that completely destroyed the plane and its black boxes? Planted. Bin Laden Confession tape? Seriously planted, dude doesn’t even look like Osama. Anything else was probably planted, too. Except the guys at the flight school, they were probably set up, the poor bastards. > [@](#): > > 1. Al Qaeda admits it orchestrated the attacks, permitted itself to be turned into an outlaw organization and precipitated the invasion of two Arab nations. All to facilitate the Neocon agenda? Planted. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/349 "2006-04-07T18:59:08Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Ah, now we come to the “hide-in-plain-sight” method of conspiracy favored by the Illuminati and Tri-Lateral Commission. Of course, the fact that They are known to use this insidious “hide-in-plain-sight” method of disguising Their nefarious operations leads one to the logical conclusion that anyone who posts details of Their assorted plots and schemes on a public message board must actually be one of _Their_ agents. I tell ya…Wheels within wheels, man, wheels with within wheels. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/350 "2006-04-07T19:09:48Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > I tell ya…Wheels within wheels, man, wheels with within wheels. That explains why my head is spinning so much. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/351 "2006-04-07T19:10:49Z")
> [@bigpappadiaz](#): > > The problem here is that you can’t understand why something like this would be carried out, and you think that we all think it was about the money. It’s easier for you to understand why some terrorists would want to carry the plan out, however. You’re lacking foresight, and one only has to look at where the world is headed to fit this demolition into the “big picture.” At this point, I’m less concerned with the “why” than with the (hopefully simpler) “how”. But just out of curiosity, where do you think the world _is_ headed, assuming the WTC conspiracy is exactly as you describe and was a huge step in that direction? Can you give an approximate timetable of events? ---
**Author:** ![bigpappadiaz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a698b9/32.png) [@bigpappadiaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bigpappadiaz)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/352 "2006-04-07T19:36:37Z")
The force is strong with you Bryan, you may see the light yet. As I’m at work and getting ready to get off early and go skip around the sun, I can’t get to typing a post that could thoroughly answer your question. Trust me though, I will get to answering it because the “why” is every bit as important as the “how,” which is why I’m not going to half-ass it. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/353 "2006-04-07T20:07:30Z")
> [@bigpappadiaz](#): > > You tried but couldn’t, right? Anybody else care to try, and then come up with a better excuse than “Well you can’t prove unicorns don’t exist can you?” Maybe one of your 9/11 debunking sites has something on this? You still don’t get it (why am I not surprised?). Its impossible to prove a negative. YOU (and the other CT’s) are the ones asserting this. Its up to YOU to prove it. I’m not going to get into the rest, as with all due respect to the poster who asked you that I think its silly to talk about the actual conspiracy from that perspective…its too subjective, too open to exactly the kind of answers you gave. I’m more interested in the how than the why. Since you took the time to answer those questions, how about answering mine about how many load bearing members per floor your ‘theory’ claims would need to be targetted, how much explosive (or thermite) per member, how many floors, etc etc. What does your theory state it would have actually physically taken to bring the towers down wrt explosives, detonators and wiring. For example, if the CT states that it would take a Z separate LBM’s per floor to cause a collapse, with X lbs per LBM, and that Y floors were effected, then we can figure first off figure out if the theory is sound as to what it would take to bring it down. If its plausable that it COULD bring them down, then we can look at the details and determine how plausable it would be to actually get it in place in the real world. If THAT is plausable then we can take the figures given and determine how much evidence should remain and start looking for what physical evidence there is for these remains of the explosives. IF you ever answer this we can then look at how plausable it would actually be to rig an occupided building up to get the effect based on the CT people who are pushing this thing…and talk about where the evidence is for any of that (wiring, explosive residue, detonators, etc). See, THIS way you can actually give a logical set of evidence, from exactly what it would take to bring the buildings down to what work and materials would have been needed to do the job to finally what actual physical evidence there exists to back up the theory. You don’t need to rely on subjective photos or blurry videos if you do this…and it keeps things out of the realm of ‘why’ this happened (which is the realm of pure speculation) and instead focused on ‘how’ it could have been done and what evidence supports that. As you are always saying, do some research into your own theory and see if they have anything to say about the above. If they do, then bring it back here and let see where it goes. If they don’t (as I suspect they don’t) then that should tell you something…at the very least it should make you look a bit more critically at the chain of ‘reasoning’ the CT is using. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/354 "2006-04-07T20:11:37Z")
> [@bigpappadiaz](#): > > Trust me though, I will get to answering it because the “why” is every bit as important as the “how,” which is why I’m not going to half-ass it. No, I really am solely interested in the “how” at this point. A chain of events starting Jan 20, 2001 (or as far back as you feel necessary) and listing names and actions in the sequence of events that led to the destruction of WTCs 1, 2 and 7 would be just fine. I don’t care about the “why”. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/355 "2006-04-07T20:29:34Z")
> [@](#): > > You tried but couldn’t, right? Anybody else care to try, and then come up with a better excuse than “Well you can’t prove unicorns don’t exist can you?” Maybe one of your 9/11 debunking sites has something on this? I never looked for denials of molten steel. The only “evidence” of molten steel presented, so far, has been poorly attested claims from a guy who has already made inaccurate statements both about what the NIST has said and even about his own peers at his own university. You are the one who needs steel to have been molten in order to pretend that there were thermite charges planted in the building, so you need to present evidence of the melted steel. Third-hand accounts by people who already believe in a conspiracy and photos that do not support your claim for what they show are not evidence that I need to debunk. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/356 "2006-04-07T20:34:49Z")
I don’t see how you can claim that the fires were out in 10-15 minutes. Didn’t you watch the videos you posted? There were flames and huge plumes of black smoke pouring out of the south tower right up to the second it collapsed. Also, temperatures could continue to rise, even if the fires were out. Ever cook a roast and use a meat thermometer? You can cook it until it reaches a certain internal temperature and remove it from the oven to rest. But if you keep testing the temperature the internal temp will continue to rise even outside the oven. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/357 "2006-04-07T20:46:28Z")
> [@bigpappadiaz](#): > > We didn’t. We blamed a bunch of already-dead Arabs for these attacks, some of whom may actually even be alive in other countries. So if the planes weren’t really piloted by the Arab guys we thought, who did pilot the planes? Seems like saying that the 19 guys didn’t really do it adds unnecessary complexity to your already fragile explanation. I would have thought that you would say the terrorists were being “used” by the Globalists, but you’re saying that they didn’t actually fly the planes at all? Then you have a lot more explaining to do. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/358 "2006-04-07T20:54:12Z")
So far we have a vast international conspiracy that only a few people working in cells were aware of that involved the President, who was incompetent and only a figurehead so Dick Cheney could run the whole deal. It dates back to 1976 when detonation charges were planted in the WTC towers while they being built and included the Murrah building in Oklahoma City. The fire was so hot that it melted steel, which wasn’t even necessary because the buildings were imploded, except for the Pentagon, which was hit by a missile because the damage wasn’t enough for it to be hit by a plane. Then we have a 4th airplane which was shot down by a fighter which couldn’t be tracked because someone fooled the radar. And the goal of all this was to build a giant oil pipeline which hasn’t been built yet. Best of all, the evidence of the conspiracy has been left in official documents and memos, but we were too stupid to put the pieces together. I don’t know about anyone else, but the blinders have certainly been lifted from MY eyes. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/359 "2006-04-07T21:01:38Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > I don’t see how you can claim that the fires were out in 10-15 minutes. In fairness, the claim is that the jet fuel had burned off in 10-15 minutes, not that the fires went out. (It is a pretty silly point, and mostly a straw man. No one but CT folks claim that it was the jet fuel (or “fireballs”) that caused the fires to be so hot. Jet fuel is pretty low grade kerosene and those of us who actually read news stories know that the amount of plastic and other materials used in modern construction will burn both hotter and longer than kerosene, but they need to focus on “jet fuel fireballs” to pretend that they have an argument.) However, it is true that the jet fuel probably had burned itself out within 20 minutes (leaving the building and its furnishing to burn for much longer and hotter). ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/360 "2006-04-07T21:01:48Z")
> [@bigpappadiaz](#): > > Wow, you got no clue how the world goes round, do you? This first reason is bunk just because of itself. “No one would have dared suggest blowing up the world trade center! They would have gotten fired.” Unless they were already discussing what they would have to do to get Americans to hate Muslims, and Vice Versa. You remember Operation Northwoods? The guys who thought that up were fired. What would prevent anyone behind 9/11 being fired? > [@](#): > > _Yes there’s a way, and they did. The Oklahoma City bombing was pulled off pretty damn well, and there’s all sorts of things that went on there that would make you scratch your head._ OKC was pulled off by two guys with a bunch of AMFO. There is no evidence that anyone else was invovled. > [@](#): > > _You don’t understand what’s going on, so there’s no way you can judge the importance of these events or understand why it had to happen, why there has to be so much secrecy. Something big’s going down worldwide, you’re not in on it, so you can’t understand why it’s so easy for these guys to keep their mouth shut. What would compell a team of men to blow up a building full of people? Use a little foresight, look around the world, and read between the lines._ Look at our own inteligence agcencies–they don’t play well together. Look at all the small stuff that our government _can’t_ keep a lid on. How in the hell are they keeping a lid on 9/11? > [@](#): > > _Shit’s gonna hit the fan soon._ It’s been 4½ years. When is this “soon” you speak of? > [@](#): > > \*Didn’t they say Bin Laden was hiding in Iraq…? \* No, they didn’t. It wasn’t necessary because the American public thought Saddam had ties to al-Qaeda. > [@](#): > > _Wow, with you thinking the way you are, I guess the President getting caught flat-footed in a classroom was the best approach! Make it seem casual, business as usual. Where else would he be, his top secret command center in the middle of some mountain directing the planes?_ He’s supposed to be in charge, right? > [@](#): > > _OoOOOo, how convenient. An official’s wife was on board, therefore it couldn’t have been conspiracy! I think they’d enjoy something like this, as it adds credibility to the official story._ Think about it for a second. Who would _volunteer_ their wife to go to her death? > [@](#): > > _We didn’t. We blamed a bunch of already-dead Arabs for these attacks, some of whom may actually even be alive in other countries._ At least of those two hijackers had doctored IDs. How much you wanna bet that they _all_ did? > [@](#): > > _Who knows? Maybe somebody had a grudge against some CIA operatives, that seems to be going around these days. You know, like the outing of Valerie Plame which subsequently outed the CIA front company she worked for Brewster Jennings & Associates and all the CIA operatives who also worked for this front company, but you never thought that far into it did you?_ I bet _you_ didn’t. What the hell does Plame & Brewster Jennings have to do with WTC 7? > [@](#): > > _That wouldn’t be good enough._ Who are you to judge what would be good enough and what’s not? > [@](#): > > \*Why not crash into the White House? \* You _are_ aware that Flight 77 was circling DC for a good fifteen minutes before aming at the Pentagon, right? Now why would the do that? Could it be they were looking for something not easily spotted from the air? Like _the White House_? > [@](#): > > _They couldn’t of taken down the towers with just the planes, which is why they also used explosives. How would it have increased their risk of failure?_ The planes could have missed their targets. The resulting fire could have prematurely set off the charges. > [@](#): > > There are smart people who can use their brains to figure out how to make this work, especially if they know where the plane is going to hit. \* And just how did the plane hit exactly where it was supposed to? How did the resulting fire not spread further than _it_ was supposed to? > [@](#): > > _They also wanted people to believe Arab terrorists did it, so they used the planes._ Again, why bother with the planes? Why not just use explosives? They already had a ready-made cover story from 1993! > [@](#): > > - > > Thousands of piece of evidence? Wow! I had no idea there was that much evidence. The car with the back pack and stuff? Planted. The passport that flew out of the guy’s pocket as he was crashing into the building, that flew through the fireball that destroyed all the black boxes and flew onto the street below? Planted. The passport they found at the Pentagon in the wreckage that completely destroyed the plane and its black boxes? Planted. Bin Laden Confession tape? Seriously planted, dude doesn’t even look like Osama. Anything else was probably planted, too. > Planted.\* By whom? How is it that will all the people going around planting stuff, all the planning that had to take place, all the demolition charges that had to be set, all the cooperation between governemnt agencies that had to take place (which is virtually impossible), _nobdoy_ has come forward in 4½ years? Nobody except the conspiracy-minded with their opinions, conjecture, and hypotheses? _edited per posters req --G_ ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948/361 "2006-04-07T21:24:51Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Think about it for a second. Who would _volunteer_ their wife to go to her death? Bill Clinton? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-conspiracy-theories/349948.md?page=19)