# 9/11 explosions **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 11, 2009, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-explosions/509738 "2009-09-11T21:46:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-explosions/509738/21 "2009-09-13T18:14:07Z")
Anything that happens suddenly and with force looks like an explosion at first glance. I remember seeing the towers come down and noticing puffs of smoke from some floors. Exactly what I would expect given a pancake effect – the air and debris is being forcefully ejected. Hearing loud noises? Ditto. Try pushing down on a vertical column with enough force to eventually make it fail. It will probably buckle and break suddenly in the middle. That’s what happened. No, I’m not a structural engineer, but everything I saw seemed to follow what I would expect from playing around with toys and stuff as a kid, and the engineers seemed to agree with that. Nothing mysterious or unusual for someone who built models and then crushed them for fun. ---
**Author:** ![jakesteele](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed8c4c/32.png) [@jakesteele](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jakesteele)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-explosions/509738/22 "2009-09-13T18:23:12Z")
> [@rowrrbazzle](#): > > It’s not for someone to debunk this. The mere fact that the explosions can’t be explained to their satisfaction is not evidence supporting any conspiracy theory. If they do contend it’s a conspiracy, they have to prove their point: explosions were from the WTC, what exactly was exploding, that the explosions caused the collapse, and that the explosions were deliberate. > > The info on the video claims debunkers say these were gas explosions, but that’s impossible because there was no gas in the WTC. But any number of things can explode under the right conditions, such as boilers and transformers. What exactly is the 911 Commission’s and Popular Mechanics explanation for those? I couldn’t find anything that specifically addressed them. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-explosions/509738/23 "2009-09-13T19:22:20Z")
> [@](#): > > “Analysis of the WTC steel for the elements in thermite/thermate would not necessarily have been conclusive. The metal compounds also would have been present in the construction materials making up the WTC towers, and sulfur is present in the gypsum wallboard that was prevalent in the interior partitions.” You do know what thermite is, right? Because I’d have been pretty suspicious if they _didn’t_ find traces of iron in the debris. A lot more than traces, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-explosions/509738/24 "2009-09-13T19:31:34Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > You do know what thermite is, right? Because I’d have been pretty suspicious if they _didn’t_ find traces of iron in the debris. A lot more than traces, actually. But to some Truthers, thermite is a nearly magical substance that can do just about anything needed to make 9/11 an ‘Inside Jobby-Job’. Especially if it’s nanothermite shaped charges. (Think about that for a second.) My favorite, though, is still the guy who thinks the USPS did 9/11 with explosive office furniture. **Magiver** : Ah, fascinating. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-explosions/509738/25 "2009-09-13T20:07:36Z")
I’m generally of the opinion that the Ignoratti should be ignored and oastracized, not engaged in debate. But I suppose I will do so anyway. [QUOTE=Alex\_Dubinsky] True. Well, the collapse did have a very surreal effect on me when I first learned of it, and I think it intensified the event, but I do agree it wasn’t necessary. My wag on this, and regarding the fall of WTC7 (which I find to be far more obvious as a non-collapse but which seems to have even less strategic value), is that there were a number of plans. In one plan you take out WTC7 with a truck bomb. In another the towers. Using airplanes may have been a long-shot plan (or stroke of luck), but all the explosives were already planted… [/QUOTE] While I suppose it is fun to speculate on bizzare theories, let me provide you with some actual facts. [I will be referencing this map of the World Trade Center complex from 2001.](http://www.wirednewyork.com/wtc/wtc_map.htm) While 1 and 2 WTC collapsed straight down, they also sprayed heavy chunks of flaming debris in all directions as they collapsed. My office at the time was in the World Financial Center (14 and 15) about 300 feet west of Tower 1. That office was so heavily damaged from debris (including fires and about a 30 foot or so long piece of floor joist embeded in the building) that it was rendered unusable for over 6 months. 7 WTC is about the same distance away to the north so it is entirely conceivable that it would have been struck by enough flaming debris to cause a catastrophic failure of the structure. In fact, in the weeks following the attack, I was at a client on the 30 something floor of the Woolworth building (Broadway just N of the Federal Building) where I had a pretty good vantage point of the site. All the buildings for about 2-3 blocks around the WTC had debris on their rooftops. Basically people who think WTC 7 collapsed from some sort of explosive have no idea how much energy a million tons of flaming concrete and steel have falling from over 1000 feet. Also, it takes weeks to prep a large building for a controlled implosion. It’s asinine to think that any building could have secretly been wired with hundreds of lbs of explosives with no one knowing. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-explosions/509738/26 "2009-09-13T22:52:15Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > You do know what thermite is, right? Because I’d have been pretty suspicious if they _didn’t_ find traces of iron in the debris. A lot more than traces, actually. Yeah, but what about those traces of Aluminum… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![dogbutler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dogbutler/32/428_2.png) [@dogbutler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dogbutler)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2009, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-explosions/509738/27 "2009-09-14T04:13:51Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Also, it takes weeks to prep a large building for a controlled implosion. It’s asinine to think that any building could have secretly been wired with hundreds of lbs of explosives with no one knowing. [tinfoil hat on]It would be easy, if it was wired with tons of explosives when it was built![/tinfoil hat off] ---
**Author:** ![Alex\_Dubinsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dbc845/32.png) [@Alex\_Dubinsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alex_Dubinsky)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2009, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-explosions/509738/28 "2009-09-15T04:01:44Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > You do know what thermite is, right? Because I’d have been pretty suspicious if they _didn’t_ find traces of iron in the debris. A lot more than traces, actually. So you people are saying anyone can just do arson or insurance fraud using thermite and noone could prove that they did? Wow, cool! In truth, there is obviously more to forensic analysis (or, eg, geologic) than finding what elements something’s made of. The products of a thermite reaction would look a certain way microscopically. Contaminants embedded in them would give clues to the temperatures they sustained. Etc. The answer the NIST gave is as unscientific and anti-intellectual as reasoning can get. Do you think there’d be a truth movement if investigations were done? If there was science, analysis, forensics? Something besides bullshit computer simulations and arguments from “common sense”? May be. But let me tell you, I wouldn’t be arguing shit. Anyone who believes the mainstream explanation must still admit that this is just not the way things should be done. And if anyone is still going to chime in and say, “well, I for one am glad they never did any tests,” then all I gotta say is, it’s good to have you at the SDMB. You fit our thinking perfectly. ---
**Author:** ![Uncertain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Uncertain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncertain)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2009, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-explosions/509738/29 "2009-09-15T05:22:57Z")
Yeah, if they’d just release his long-form birth certificate…oh, sorry, wrong thread. I get confused because the thinking is so similar. The “truth” folks have developed a strong conviction that is refractory to both reason and experimental evidence. They use “reverse reasoning”, in which they try to figure out a way to make anything support their foregone conclusion. They keep on repeating things that have been repeatedly debunked. They quote people out of context, where the context makes it clear that the person was saying exactly the opposite of what they claim he was saying. > [@Alex\_Dubinsky](#): > > There’s a lot of circumstantial evidence, such as the swift trucking away of all debris to be melted in china. None was given to the Commission to examine. Simply [not true](http://www.911myths.com/html/recycled_steel.html). > [@](#): > > One of the most bizarre elements is the FAQ on the NIST website. You know what their answer is for “why didn’t you test for explosives”? It is, “well, if had tested for them, we’d probably have found them.” Come on, that’s not what they said. > [@](#): > > Fucking seriously. After hand-waving about how they didn’t need to test for explosives because they already knew that there were no explosives, [the answer (#12)](http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm) concludes with: “Analysis of the WTC steel for the elements in thermite/thermate would not necessarily have been conclusive. The metal compounds also would have been present in the construction materials making up the WTC towers, and sulfur is present in the gypsum wallboard that was prevalent in the interior partitions.” So no forensic investigator, scientist, etc. can reliably tell thermite-based arson apart from a fire of office cubicles? I suspect they actually did do the testing, found it, and then silenced the results. For everyone’s benefit. Suspect all you want. _I_ suspect that the people feeding you the “truth” nonsense are liars, paranoids, and people with a tenuous grip on reality. If they had done the tests and found no evidence of thermite, you would just say that you believe that they are lying (which would seem to be the more sensible way to “silence the results”). And you would be saying “How can they claim that there was no thermite/thermate? The metal compounds would have been present in the construction materials, and sulfur would have been present in the gypsum wallboard. At best, the tests would have been inconclusive.” No matter what they did, you would interpret it as evidence of a conspiracy. > [@](#): > > Do you think there’d be a truth movement if investigations were done? If there was science, analysis, forensics? Something besides bullshit computer simulations and arguments from “common sense”? May be. But let me tell you, I wouldn’t be arguing shit. Well, investigations _were_ done. Bullshit and arguments from “common sense” are all that the “truth” folks have. There would be a “truth movement”, and you would be arguing shit, whatever they had done. ---
**Author:** ![jakesteele](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed8c4c/32.png) [@jakesteele](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jakesteele)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2009, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-explosions/509738/30 "2009-09-15T10:01:52Z")
> [@](#): > > Quote: > Originally Posted by rowrrbazzle View Post > It’s not for someone to debunk this. The mere fact that the explosions can’t be explained to their satisfaction is not evidence supporting any conspiracy theory. If they do contend it’s a conspiracy, they have to prove their point: explosions were from the WTC, what exactly was exploding, that the explosions caused the collapse, and that the explosions were deliberate. > > The info on the video claims debunkers say these were gas explosions, but that’s impossible because there was no gas in the WTC. But any number of things can explode under the right conditions, such as boilers and transformers. What exactly is the 911 Commission’s and Popular Mechanics explanation for those? I couldn’t find anything that specifically addressed them. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2009, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-explosions/509738/31 "2009-09-15T14:25:38Z")
> [@happywaffle](#): > > I’m still waiting for someone to explain why none of the hundreds of motorists who were driving on Route 27 west of the Pentagon reported that it was a ballistic missile, not a plane, that soared right over their heads and crashed into the Pentagon. Seems like folk would notice a thing like that. Also, where the actual people (including the U.S. Solicitor General’s wife) who were on Flight 77 disappeared to. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-explosions/509738.md?page=1)