# 9/11, In my humble opinion **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 13, 2006, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-in-my-humble-opinion/372490 "2006-09-13T02:03:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-in-my-humble-opinion/372490/81 "2006-09-13T19:50:22Z")
[QUOTE=Leaffan] Either way the removal of a fanatical Muslim dictator and the installment of democracy has to be a good thing. [/QUOTE] I am truly curious. Who is this fanatical Muslim dictator you refer to? ---
**Author:** ![JohnM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/848f3c/32.png) [@JohnM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnM)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-in-my-humble-opinion/372490/82 "2006-09-13T20:19:25Z")
[QUOTE=Leaffan] [Here](http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1531304,00.html) and [here.](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14727720/) [/QUOTE] Dealing with the easy one first, your second link is an MSNBC internet poll, and as such is about as reliable as the paper it’s printed on. Your first link, however, is a Time story that references a [Scripps-Howard](http://www.scrippsnews.com/911poll) poll that does, in fact, find that more than a third of Americans suspect government involvement. > [@](#): > > Thirty-six percent of respondents overall said it is “very likely” or “somewhat likely” that federal officials either participated in the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon or took no action to stop them “because they wanted the United States to go to war in the Middle East.” But read the entire article about the poll and you’ll find that these numbers are a recent development: > [@](#): > > University of Florida law professor Mark Fenster, author of the book “Conspiracy Theories: Secrecy and Power in American Culture,” said the poll’s findings reflect public anger at the unpopular Iraq war, realization that Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction and growing doubts of the veracity of the Bush administration. > > “What has amazed me is not that there are conspiracy theories, but that they didn’t seem to be getting any purchase among the American public until the last year or so,” Fenster said. “Although the Iraq war was not directly related to the 9/11 attacks, people are now looking back at 9/11 with much more skepticism than they used to.” Now, without any corroborating information about why and when people started believing the conspiracists, this sounds like it is just Prof. Fenster’s interpretation. I think that it sounds like a perfectly valid analysis, though, in that it just makes sense psychologically. If you become convinced that the administration lies about everything, why not believe they lied about 9/11 as well? There would be a certain karmic justice if the TPTB were eventually brought down because people believed they were lying about one of the few things they actually told the truth about. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-in-my-humble-opinion/372490/83 "2006-09-13T20:24:15Z")
[QUOTE=Gary Kumquat] I am truly curious. Who is this fanatical Muslim dictator you refer to? [/QUOTE] Half a bunch of other posteres allready figured this out themselves, aswell as Leaffan spelling it out. You may disagree to your hearts content, but there’s really no need to play stupid and pretend you don’t know what he’s talking about. “truly curious” …bah …playing stupid more like it. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-in-my-humble-opinion/372490/84 "2006-09-13T20:33:49Z")
**Leaffan** : you think you’re humble? Pardon me while I crap with laughter. You couldn’t be humble if you were restricted to a diet consisting solely of humble pie, combined with a strict regimen of humility-enhancing steroids. You wouldn’t know humble if it came up behind you, stuck a flagpole between your ass cheeks and claimed you for the King of Humblevania. You and humble are so far removed from each other that you can’t even be properly described as antonyms. Conceptually, humble is east and you’re blue. You want to know who’s really humble? ME. My humility is the stuff of legend. I am the fucking Elder God of humble, dreaming away the dead eons in my ancient tomb at Humbl’eh. Scientists have identified several unique organ systems within my body which have the sole function of making me more humble. My opinions are so humble that, when introduced into foreign environments, they immediately displace all native humble opinions from their respective niches, driving them to extinction. _My humility is an ecological holocaust_. You get one warning. Don’t try to be humble, _because you will lose._ [QUOTE=Rune] ahh yes. You know you’re on the SDMB, when a slightly pro-Bush post is BBQ material. [/QUOTE] Say, that’s a good point. Let’s edit the OP to remove all pro-Bush content and see what happens: > [@](#): > > 9/11, In my humble opinion > > * * * > > In my humble opinion, there is no conspiracy regarding the US government involvement in 9/11. > > In my humble opinion, the attacks on 9/11 were carried out by a group of fundamentalist Muslim extremists under the direction of Osama bin Laden. > > In my humble opinion, Afghanistan was a breeding ground for terrorists and required our intervention. > > In my humble opinion, Iraq refused to comply with UN WMD inspections on a number of occasions. > > In my humble opinion, Saddam Hussein sanctioned the mass murder of Kurds under his regime. > > In my humble opinion, Iraq was a breeding ground for terrorists. > > In my humble opinion, the world will be a better place in years to come because of the proactive US stance on terrorism. > > In my humble opinion, an earlier intervention in 1930’s Germany would have resulted in hundreds of thousands fewer casualties, > > In my humble opinion, all of us were extremely upset on Sept. 11/2001, and were willing to use nuclear weapons to retaliate. Now we’re upset because it’s taking a wee bit longer than anticipated. > > In my humble opinion, you can’t molly-coddle terrorists. > > In my humble opinion, things are proceeding as they must, after 3,000 innocent lives were lost on one fine September 11 morning. > > In my humble opinion, someone’s going to come back at me and tell me I’m wrong. > > In my humble opinion, I wish he or she were right. But the world is a scary place and I thank the United States of America for having the fortitude to stand up to it. > > In my humble opinion, I’m willing to stand by the allied forces in Afghanistan and Iraq and understand they’re fighting for our freedom, or lack of terrorism. > > In my humble opinion, I’m willing to bet this post won’t be popular. > > In my humble opinion, I don’t give a shit. > > In my humble opinion, I think I’m in the majority. Yeah, that’s much less inflammatory. Clearly, the pro-Bush comments were only possible reason the OP was moved. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-in-my-humble-opinion/372490/85 "2006-09-13T20:55:04Z")
[QUOTE=JohnM] If you become convinced that the administration lies about everything, why not believe they lied about 9/11 as well? [/QUOTE] I never really thought about this before, but let’s say that Bushco was behind 9/11, and did it to justify invading Iraq. Why would their investigation lead them to 15 Saudis and 4 Egyptians operating out of Afghanistan? Wouldn’t it make more sense to manufacture villains from Iraq? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-in-my-humble-opinion/372490/86 "2006-09-13T21:12:37Z")
[QUOTE=Rune] Half a bunch of other posteres allready figured this out themselves, aswell as Leaffan spelling it out. You may disagree to your hearts content, but there’s really no need to play stupid and pretend you don’t know what he’s talking about. “truly curious” …bah …playing stupid more like it. [/QUOTE] Oh lordy, can it be. Accused of playing stupid by the town idiot. Rune, I’m going to be nice here because we’ve never met before and you deserve as much slack as you can get. If I want to ask the OP a question, then I will. If you feel you can answer on the OP’s behalf on just who the fanatical muslim dictator is, then step up to the crease and play. Failing that, stay quiet and let the adults talk. Do not, however, presume for one second to accuse me of playing stupid, as believe me I would not dare encroach on the expertise of people such as yourself in that field. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-in-my-humble-opinion/372490/87 "2006-09-13T21:54:09Z")
[QUOTE=Leaffan] In In my humble opinion, all of us were extremely upset on Sept. 11/2001, and were willing to use nuclear weapons to retaliate. [/QUOTE] I was? Are you fucking insane? Use nuclear weapons, huh? Aside from the fact that you don’t even live in a nuclear power, what kind of fucking nut wanted to nuke anyone? All we needed was a good, solid invasion of Afghanistan, and things were going swimmingly until the powers that be decided to forget about that war so they could conquer some oil fields. > [@](#): > > In my humble opinion, I’m willing to stand by the allied forces in Afghanistan and Iraq and understand they’re fighting for our freedom, or lack of terrorism. Allied forces in Afganistan are indeed fighting for freedom. Allied forces in Iraq are fighting for sheer imperialism. There is nothing honorable about their mission. It’s not the fault of the soldier on the ground by any means, but they are not engaged in an ethical, moral, or constructive enterprise. In my opinion, 20 years from now you’ll deny having supported the Iraq war. ---
**Author:** ![JohnM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/848f3c/32.png) [@JohnM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnM)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-in-my-humble-opinion/372490/88 "2006-09-13T22:10:20Z")
[QUOTE=tdn] I never really thought about this before, but let’s say that Bushco was behind 9/11, and did it to justify invading Iraq. Why would their investigation lead them to 15 Saudis and 4 Egyptians operating out of Afghanistan? Wouldn’t it make more sense to manufacture villains from Iraq? [/QUOTE] Absolutely, but how many of the people who have doubt about the reality-based version of 9/11 believe that the Administration actually did it, and how many think they just looked the other way and let it happen to further their aims? The latter case aligns with reality much better, and the fact that it was an al-Qaeda and not Iraqi plot is just an inconvenient detail which the Administration can spin around (which is what they did anyway.) Part of my reasoning here is to rationalize to myself how so many of my fellow citizens can entertain an idea which I find thoroughly repugnant, almost in the class of Holocaust Denial. Besides being at odds with physical reality on almost every point, the 9/11 conspiracy theories posit that not just the President but hundreds if not thousands of other federal officials engineered a mass murder of our own citizens. As much as I dislike the policies of this Administration, that is beyond the pale. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-in-my-humble-opinion/372490/89 "2006-09-13T23:28:45Z")
Count me in with the “Why the hell did Samclem move the poor schmuck’s thread here?” crowd. Do all pro-administration sentiments belong here, or is it more of a punishment for expressing them? “Thou hast supported the war, by my powers I cast thee in to the pit so that the slavering minions of liberaldom, may gnaw your flesh and work thy bones cunningly into musical instruments and when they play on them your conservative soul will dance in torment for all eternity!” Was it something like that? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-in-my-humble-opinion/372490/90 "2006-09-13T23:30:45Z")
> [@](#): > > The road to hell is paved with good intentions. > > Late sixteenth century proverb. Americans who support what is being done in their names by their government today are supporting evil, even though they probably do not know it yet. Americans a couple of generations from now will see it clearly and will be ashamed of what their ancestors did just like today everybody knows slavery was wrong and yet half the country went to war to defend it. You cannot fight for human rights by destroying them. You cannot promote civil rights by eroding them. You cannot promote the rule of law by evading it. You cannot promote peace by invading other countries. What is going on is just surreal. America is destroying itself in a frenzy of fear and rage and in the foolish belief that it can rule the world when they cannot even rule themselves any better than other countries. > [@](#): > > Men, said the Devil, > are good to their brothers: > they don’t want to mend > their own ways, but each other’s. > > Piet Hein (December 16, 1905 - April 18, 1996) If anyone a few years ago would have told me that the American government would be attacking other countries, torturing people, running secret prisons, etc. I would have told them they were crazy. And yet, here we are. The American people have allowed all this and more to happen. They succumbed to fear peddled by politicians who gain from that fear. America, in its fear, has lost all reason and all sense. Americans, who pride themselves with being brave, have succumbed to fear like nobody else. Americans often cite cases of Muslim opinions to show how crazy and different they are. These Muslims have what we consider crazy opinions because they live immersed in such culture where they seem normal. What Americans do not realize is that their own views are often perceived as just as strange and weird by most of the rest of the world. Americans are just as isolated from the rest of the world and have this belief in the superiority of their own culture which is very dangerous. This ignorance and feeling of superiority has led to the present situation. America arrogantly insulted the rest of the world and rushed in where angels fear to tread. > [@](#): > > “Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad with power.” > > Historian Charles A. Beard, when asked what major lessons he had learned from history. In a fit of arrogance the USA embarked in a criminal war of aggression believing it could prevail without difficulty but now finding out the tough reality that it is costing treasure and lives and it has not achieved anything useful. On the contrary, it has made things worse for the USA and better for its rivals Iran, China etc. And, having the tiger by the tail, it fears letting go. Living by the sword, they are dying by the sword. > [@](#): > > “You think you’re big time…you’re going to fucking die… big time” > > Carlito Brigante. (Al Pacino) Now the rest of the world is sitting on their collective hands watching the spectacle of the arrogant bully being bled to death by a thousand paper cuts. A little humility would have gone a long way but the arrogant bully will still not admit mistake but rather charges on ever more enraged. Like the bull uses its head to charge rather than think so is America reacting in the most foolish way. Every barb makes it more determined to continue, not realizing that it is just playing the game the others want. They will not let go lest they appear as cowards (cut-n-run and all that) to the world when they are not appearing any braver but a lot stupider. Discretion is the better part of valor. Not to mention that intelligent and respectable people admit their mistakes. And that this fixation with not admitting to be wrong is just a tad childish. But America today would rather keep sending their men to die than admit they were wrong. They would rather keep killing than admit they were wrong. They do not have the guts to admit thousands have died for a mistake. America believed their own propaganda that everybody wants to live like Americans and that Iraqis would love to have an American-controlled puppet government. They were baffled when it turned out otherwise and the Iraqis are fighting the Americans fiercely. The lack of perspective of American is just astonishing. I am reminded of the old story where a man says to a friend “I worry because I am attracted to all women except my wife” and the friend replies “don’t worry; I am also attracted to all women except your wife”. > [@](#): > > Cet animal est très mechant, > Quand on l’attaque il se défend. > (La Ménagerie, Theodore P.K.) > > This animal is very wicked, > When attacked it will defend itself. Iraqis are very wicked and have nowhere to go so I am quite certain America will be defeated in Iraq even if many Americans still want to believe victory, however it may be defined, is possible. It is wishful thinking. I think it is obvious by now to all except the most fanatical that there is no way America can win in Iraq. [QUOTE=Sir Winston Churchill] Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The statesman who yields to war fever must realize that once the signal is given, he is no longer the master of policy but the slave of unforeseeable and uncontrollable events. [/quote] America used brute force when it needed to use intelligence. It needed friends in the remote corners where the bad guys plot but, instead, it has made enemies everywhere. It used a hammer when it should have used a scalpel. > [@](#): > > “Dumb move man…dumb move, but it’s like them old reflexes coming back” > > Carlito Brigante. (Al Pacino) Maybe satisfying initially for the chest thumpers but dumb nevertheless. Intelligence trumps brute force every time. If someone tells me he has a very simple solution to a very complex problem, my first thought is that he is a fool who does not fully understand the problem. Americans preferred to trust the fool who told them “trust me and I’ll fix everything”. America cannot sustain this war indefinitely. Never mind militarily or even politically which it also can’t but even if it could. It will spend itself into bankruptcy. It is spending wildly and irresponsibly beyond its means. Not that this would bother the chest thumpers who cannot even balance their own checkbook but reality finally bites you in the ass. [QUOTE=George Orwell] Every war when it comes, or before it comes, is represented not as a war but as an act of self-defense against a homicidal maniac. [/quote] America today is, in fact, a rogue nation which others have every reason to fear. It has declared in its words and in its actions that is has no respect for anyone or anything and that it will attack when it suits them. International treaties and the given word be damned. The world is right to be fearful. It is painful to see a great country and culture go crazy and lash out at everybody without motive or reason. It is like watching your uncle, whom you know to be decent and intelligent, get drunk at a wedding and make a fool of himself by insulting people and picking fights. He is still your loved uncle and you fervently wish it will all be over as soon as possible. The world is waiting for America’s foolishness to subside but in the meanwhile we are just standing aside in case we might get hurt. I sincerely hope America will come to reason soon even if it is brought by their defeat. It will be better for the world and better for America. Maybe some will not like to hear the uncomfortable truth but I think it is my duty, as a friend, to tell my friends when what they are doing is wrong or foolish. All the best. ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-in-my-humble-opinion/372490/91 "2006-09-13T23:38:19Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] Count me in with the “Why the hell did Samclem move the poor schmuck’s thread here?” crowd. Do all pro-administration sentiments belong here, or is it more of a punishment for expressing them? “Thou hast supported the war, by my powers I cast thee in to the pit so that the slavering minions of liberaldom, may gnaw your flesh and work thy bones cunningly into musical instruments and when they play on them your conservative soul will dance in torment for all eternity!” Was it something like that? [/QUOTE] Question from someone new- What difference does it make if a thread is moved to the pit? It’s not password protected here. Is there something wrong with having a thread moved here? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-in-my-humble-opinion/372490/92 "2006-09-13T23:43:31Z")
[QUOTE=Caridwen] Question from someone new- What difference does it make if a thread is moved to the pit? It’s not password protected here. Is there something wrong with having a thread moved here? [/QUOTE] Come close and listen closer. For of all the forums of the SDMB, the pit stands alone. Everywhere else people must be civil. But here, in the pit, people are allowed to call each other names and be mean. How can you debate civilly when people are calling you a “butt-monkey?” This is where you get abused and where you’re feelings get hurt, and lo, if you are a conservative, or a Republican the liberal sharks of the pit will flock to you like half starved great whites to a wounded seal. So Run! Now! It’s too late for me, but go before they hurt your feelings! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-in-my-humble-opinion/372490/93 "2006-09-13T23:53:11Z")
One dabs at weeping eyes, contemplating the fragile petals of **Scylla’s** feelings, so brutally abused. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-in-my-humble-opinion/372490/94 "2006-09-14T00:04:13Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] Count me in with the “Why the hell did Samclem move the poor schmuck’s thread here?” crowd. [/quote] I saw it as a choice between Great Debates and the Pit. I didn’t think that it would stay in Great Debates, even if I started it there. > [@](#): > > Do all pro-administration sentiments belong here, or is it more of a punishment for expressing them? The thread started life in IMHO. Give the totallity of the opinions expressed in the OP, I didn’t see how it belonged in IMHO. > [@](#): > > “Thou hast supported the war, by my powers I cast thee in to the pit so that the slavering minions of liberaldom, may gnaw your flesh and work thy bones cunningly into musical instruments and when they play on them your conservative soul will dance in torment for all eternity!” > Was it something like that? Nice beat, I could almost dance to it. **samclem** ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-in-my-humble-opinion/372490/95 "2006-09-14T00:11:25Z")
[QUOTE=samclem] The thread started life in IMHO. Give the totallity of the opinions expressed in the OP, I didn’t see how it belonged in IMHO. [/quote] I see. So it was based upon the potential. You saw a grave and gathering threat, and decided to act preemptively in order to protect the forum from the mere possibility of hostile rhetoric. And… did you find any such hostile rhetoric, or did you feel that the OP was simply seeking to acquire some? Or… did you feel that they were on some kind of hostile rhetoric “program.” Shall we call this preemptive Regime change, err, I mean “forum change,” the Samclem doctrine? Nice beat, I could almost dance to it. **samclem** [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-in-my-humble-opinion/372490/96 "2006-09-14T00:20:42Z")
When moderators are criticized, the terrorists have won. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-in-my-humble-opinion/372490/97 "2006-09-14T00:28:24Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] When moderators are criticized, the terrorists have won. [/QUOTE] Why do you hate the SDMB? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-in-my-humble-opinion/372490/98 "2006-09-14T01:31:32Z")
[QUOTE=JohnM] If you become convinced that the administration lies about everything, why not believe they lied about 9/11 as well? [/QUOTE] In my case, because it appears to the international consensus that Al Qaeda really did do it, and that I doubt they could have kept it secret. I’m certain that the Bush Admin would have been willing to, and that they might actually have tried given time; it’s just that Osama beat them to it. [QUOTE=JohnM] Absolutely, but how many of the people who have doubt about the reality-based version of 9/11 believe that the Administration actually did it, and how many think they just looked the other way and let it happen to further their aims? The latter case aligns with reality much better, and the fact that it was an al-Qaeda and not Iraqi plot is just an inconvenient detail which the Administration can spin around (which is what they did anyway.) [/quote] Correct; as I’ve said elsewhere I find it quite possible that they _let_ it happen. After all, all it would take was a few key people at the top to simply not do anything; far more likely than a vast, ongoing conspiracy _with no leaks_. [QUOTE=JohnM] Part of my reasoning here is to rationalize to myself how so many of my fellow citizens can entertain an idea which I find thoroughly repugnant, almost in the class of Holocaust Denial. Besides being at odds with physical reality on almost every point, the 9/11 conspiracy theories posit that not just the President but hundreds if not thousands of other federal officials engineered a mass murder of our own citizens. As much as I dislike the policies of this Administration, that is beyond the pale. [/QUOTE] Why ? Not that I believe it happened that way, but given history what’s so unthinkable about it ? Governments slaughter their own all the time. Doing so without being detected; that would be new, but not the killing. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-in-my-humble-opinion/372490/99 "2006-09-14T03:44:50Z")
Leaffan, you say “Iraq was a breeding ground for terrorists”. As others have stated, the cites you’ve given are twaddle, but even if the allegations your cites make are correct, you and good sense become utter strangers if you justify invading Iraq as a counter terrorism measure on the basis of those allegations. As others have pointed out, at the time of invasion of Iraq, there were several countries known to be as to terrorism as swamps are to mosquitoes (to continue the breeding ground theme). Even assuming your above allegations are true, compared to those countries Iraq was but a saucerful of stagnant water, terrorism wise. Even if the slim connections you can point to between Saddam and AQ were entirely factual, the suggestion that such connections justified invading Iraq, in the context of the wider and well known picture of worldwide terrorism and the limited resources available to combat it, is utter foolishness. If you believe otherwise, you live in cloud cuckoo land. In reality, you are a fellow traveller of the present US administration, and you will believe any nonsense no matter how ridiculous in order to provide after the fact justification for its actions. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-in-my-humble-opinion/372490/100 "2006-09-14T04:18:41Z")
I wonder if **Leaffan** only thinks Bush is “probably the exact right leader” because it’s not **Leaffan** ’s country that Bush is leading right into a ditch. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-in-my-humble-opinion/372490.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-in-my-humble-opinion/372490.md?page=6)