# 9-11 Pentagon missiles no plane ... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 24, 2008, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-pentagon-missiles-no-plane/465009 "2008-09-24T16:24:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-pentagon-missiles-no-plane/465009/1 "2008-09-24T16:24:26Z")
You know the drill. Please link to sources debunking the theory that what hit the Pentagon in 9-11 was a missile and not a plane. Google gets me more pro than against. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-pentagon-missiles-no-plane/465009/2 "2008-09-24T16:31:57Z")
Any argument for a missile hitting the Pentagon needs to answer these questions. Where is American Airlines Flight 77? Where are the 180+ people who were on flight 77? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-pentagon-missiles-no-plane/465009/3 "2008-09-24T16:32:20Z")
Then what happened to that plane, and all the people on it? Calling Rod Serling . . . ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-pentagon-missiles-no-plane/465009/4 "2008-09-24T16:34:49Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Any argument for a missile hitting the Pentagon needs to answer these questions. > Where is American Airlines Flight 77? > Where are the 180+ people who were on flight 77? That assumes you are arguing against rational and intelligent people. I found the Popular Mechanics site that has some pictures of plane wreckage on the lawn of the Pentagon. I would like something more along those lines. Pictures from before the collapse of Ring E, identifiable plane parts, etc. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-pentagon-missiles-no-plane/465009/5 "2008-09-24T16:35:08Z")
But the Pentagon was hit by a missile - from a particular point of view - when the terrorists took over the plane, it ceased being the plane and became the missile. From a particular point of view. ---
**Author:** ![WoodenTaco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/45deac/32.png) [@WoodenTaco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WoodenTaco)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-pentagon-missiles-no-plane/465009/6 "2008-09-24T16:36:38Z")
> [@Sapo](#): > > That assumes you are arguing against rational and intelligent people. > > I found the Popular Mechanics site that has some pictures of plane wreckage on the lawn of the Pentagon. I would like something more along those lines. Pictures from before the collapse of Ring E, identifiable plane parts, etc. If they are irrational and unintelligent, why would that be more persuasive? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-pentagon-missiles-no-plane/465009/7 "2008-09-24T16:40:57Z")
> [@Sapo](#): > > That assumes you are arguing against rational and intelligent people. > > I found the Popular Mechanics site that has some pictures of plane wreckage on the lawn of the Pentagon. I would like something more along those lines. Pictures from before the collapse of Ring E, identifiable plane parts, etc. They would yell, “Photoshopped!” ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-pentagon-missiles-no-plane/465009/8 "2008-09-24T16:41:54Z")
I need to make a correction. The 180+ people includes people in the Pentagon, not just passengers in the plane. The 180 # includes 100+ people in the Pentagon. Sorry. Here is a link with some wreckage pictures. (weak stomachs will be fine here) [http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread79655/pg1](http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread79655/pg1) ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-pentagon-missiles-no-plane/465009/9 "2008-09-24T16:46:57Z")
Snopes has a pretty good overview. > **[Was the 9/11 Pentagon Attack Faked?](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/911-pentagon-attack/)** > > A Boeing 757, and not a cruise missile or anything else, caused damage to the Pentagon on 9/11. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-pentagon-missiles-no-plane/465009/10 "2008-09-24T17:06:43Z")
Why can’t you show them the 10,000 previous threads debunking this nonsense? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-pentagon-missiles-no-plane/465009/11 "2008-09-24T17:56:29Z")
I suppose that the thousands of people who saw the plane hit with their naked eye aren’t good enough? In that case, I don’t know what would be. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-pentagon-missiles-no-plane/465009/12 "2008-09-24T18:28:23Z")
Thanks for the responses. Anything about the surveillance cameras in nearby businesses that were confiscated and never released? > [@WoodenTaco](#): > > If they are irrational and unintelligent, why would that be more persuasive? Graphic evidence is a powerful tool. Asking about a missing plane leaves the doubt of “how do I know there was one in the first place?”. Plus, the case at hand is more of ignorance confused by the conspiracy propaganda, more than obtuse refusal to logic and reason. > [@panache45](#): > > They would yell, “Photoshopped!” Heh! true that. Still, you can always bounce it back to “find me the originals without the inserted parts”, and the fact that I haven’t met any conspiracists claiming that the photos are photoshopped (a la Moon landing) > [@Morgenstern](#): > > I need to make a correction. > The 180+ people includes people in the Pentagon, not just passengers in the plane. The 180 # includes 100+ people in the Pentagon. Sorry. > > Here is a link with some wreckage pictures. (weak stomachs will be fine here) > > [http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread79655/pg1](http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread79655/pg1) That is just perfect. Thanks. Exactly what I was looking for. > [@pravnik](#): > > Snopes has a pretty good overview. > > [Was the 9/11 Pentagon Attack Faked? | Snopes.com](http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.asp) Thanks, that was the first place I went to and for some reason search was giving me all kind of small tangential myths about it, instead of the big one. > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Why can’t you show them the 10,000 previous threads debunking this nonsense? I was hoping for links to those. Although maybe they are not good because they are too full of people saying there are previous threads about it but not linking to them. > [@Chronos](#): > > I suppose that the thousands of people who saw the plane hit with their naked eye aren’t good enough? In that case, I don’t know what would be. Witness accounts are not reliable. Proof of that are the other thousands of people who say they heard something like a missile, that it was a small white plane and that they actually saw a missile. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-pentagon-missiles-no-plane/465009/13 "2008-09-24T18:48:00Z")
One of the most telling arguments against the “spot the airliner” theory is this simple video. Here is a jet hitting a concrete barrier, and I challenge you so see any trace of the jet itself after the collision: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/8QOP4O_8dtc/hqdefault.jpg "JET HITS CONCRETE WALL AT HIGH SPEED") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QOP4O_8dtc) ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-pentagon-missiles-no-plane/465009/14 "2008-09-24T18:54:47Z")
> [@simster](#): > > But the Pentagon was hit by a missile - from a particular point of view - when the terrorists took over the plane, it ceased being the plane and became the missile. > > From a particular point of view. Thanks, Obi-Wan. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-pentagon-missiles-no-plane/465009/15 "2008-09-24T19:01:18Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > One of the most telling arguments against the “spot the airliner” theory is this simple video. Here is a jet hitting a concrete barrier, and I challenge you so see any trace of the jet itself after the collision: > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QOP4O\_8dtc](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QOP4O_8dtc) What’s funny is how that video was posted in support of the CT. Very cool, btw. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-pentagon-missiles-no-plane/465009/16 "2008-09-24T19:02:09Z")
> [@simster](#): > > From a particular point of view. A lie is still a lie, even from a certain point of view. (No, I’m _not_ a Skywalker.) **Sapo** : Ask them why Dylan Avery, Korey Rowe, and Jason Bermas are still alive. If the government was willing to kill 3,000+ Americans on 9/11, what’s a few dozen more in the mop-up actions later? Why haven’t they all had heart attacks or been involved in tragic car accidents? How much Truth is the government going to let slip through its fingers before taking any concrete action against the Truthers? (Try not to say the word ‘Truth’ sarcastically, BTW. They may be dense but they aren’t that stupid.) If you want a running commentary on this whole thing, search through the archives of [Screw Loose Change](http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/). They’ve been into this whole mess for a very long time and have commented on just about every aspect of the Troofer culture and mindset, from the They Let It Happen crowd to the No-Planers to the [utter loons who think the USPS did it](http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2008/07/craziest-theory-yet.html). ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-pentagon-missiles-no-plane/465009/17 "2008-09-24T19:03:13Z")
> [@simster](#): > > But the Pentagon was hit by a missile - from a particular point of view - when the terrorists took over the plane, it ceased being the plane and became the missile. > > From a particular point of view. What I will never understand is how the terrorists managed to commandeer the pentagon to crash it against that plane (or missile) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-pentagon-missiles-no-plane/465009/18 "2008-09-24T19:36:27Z")
> [@simster](#): > > But the Pentagon was hit by a missile - from a particular point of view - when the terrorists took over the plane, it ceased being the plane and became the missile. > > From a particular point of view. It’s not a particular point of view; it’s just a different definition of the word _missile_. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-pentagon-missiles-no-plane/465009/19 "2008-09-24T19:40:19Z")
This [article](http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/conspiracy/q0265.shtml) covers the evidence that it was a 757 and not some other plane that hit the Pentagon. As does [this one](http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/conspiracy/q0290.shtml). And [this one](http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/conspiracy/q0274.shtml) debunks some crackpot “ground effects makes it impossible to fly into the Pentagon” theory. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2008, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-pentagon-missiles-no-plane/465009/20 "2008-09-24T19:41:24Z")
There were thousands of eyewitnesses. If you insist on a missile, obviously a missile was what hit an empty field in Pennsylvania. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-pentagon-missiles-no-plane/465009.md?page=2)