# 9/11 - simple questions **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 4, 2011, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-simple-questions/584287 "2011-06-04T04:25:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![blood63](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@blood63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blood63)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-simple-questions/584287/1 "2011-06-04T04:25:56Z")
I just finished watching _World Trade Center_, the movie by Oliver Stone. Don’t waste your time with it but here are a few questions. 1. How many people died in the disaster? 2. How many bodies were recovered? 3. What other notable valuables were lost? (jewels, paintings, gold bars, cash, artwork, intellectual property) Thanks ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-simple-questions/584287/2 "2011-06-04T04:46:42Z")
> [@blood63](#): > > 1. How many people died in the disaster? The whole day or just the WTC complex and the planes that flew into them? Approximately 3,000 is the figure given for the entirety of deaths due to terrorism on 9/11, inclusive of the WTC, the Pentagon, and Shanksville. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-simple-questions/584287/3 "2011-06-04T15:19:32Z")
“Pawn Stars” recently taught me that a large amount of Helen Keller memorabilia was lost when the towers came down. mmm ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-simple-questions/584287/4 "2011-06-04T15:27:55Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > “Pawn Stars” recently taught me that a large amount of Helen Keller memorabilia was lost when the towers came down. No cite? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-simple-questions/584287/5 "2011-06-04T16:45:49Z")
> [@sh1bu1](#): > > No cite? No hearing, either. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-simple-questions/584287/6 "2011-06-04T16:51:33Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > No hearing, either. Now that’s just dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Jake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jake)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-simple-questions/584287/7 "2011-06-04T17:20:54Z")
Dumb, but FUNNY! ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-simple-questions/584287/8 "2011-06-04T19:02:21Z")
Anyway, are we actually interested in answering these questions? Every single piece of information could be found with Google and less time than it takes to sit through a commercial. Anyway, [from a cited Wikipedia article](http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Casualties_of_the_September_11_attacks&oldid=432443172#Forensic_identification): > [@](#): > > Ultimately, 2,752 death certificates were filed relating to the 9/11 attacks[clarification needed],[53] as of February 2005. Of these, 1,588 (58%) were forensically identified from recovered physical remains.[54][55] (One thing about Wikipedia is that if a topic draws the loonies, the loony-fighting brigades will show up and clean the articles to a fair gloss as part of destroying the vandalism.) From a [markedly less-sourced source](http://nymag.com/news/articles/wtc/1year/numbers.htm): > [@](#): > > Bodies found “intact”: 289 > > Body parts found: 19,858 > > Number of families who got no remains: 1,717 [Here is a PDF about the art lost on 9/11](http://ifar.org/upload/pdffile18470e62bc7ceb5ifar_911residency.pdf), in specific items in the WTC: > [@](#): > > The value of the work that the artists lost in the studios on the 92nd floor is approximately $500,000, with equipment valued at around $50,000, and materials totaling approximately $20,000. On the 91st floor, we lost art work valued at $150,000, and equipment and materials valued at about $10,000. Also destroyed were works at the LMCC’s offices. We are still assessing what exactly was lost, but we estimate over 150 art works—paintings, drawings, sculptures, and photography, including pieces by Komar & Melamid, Tim Hailand, Daniel Kohn, Taylor Spence, and Takashi Murakami. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-simple-questions/584287/9 "2011-06-04T19:14:46Z")
> [@blood63](#): > > I just finished watching _World Trade Center_, the movie by Oliver Stone. > Don’t waste your time with it but here are a few questions. > > 1. How many people died in the disaster? > 2. How many bodies were recovered? > 3. What other notable valuables were lost? (jewels, paintings, gold bars, cash, artwork, intellectual property) > > Thanks Here’s some breakdowns: (Source: [Guardian.Co.Uk](http://Guardian.Co.Uk)) World Trade Center - **2,606** American 11 - **87** United 175 - **60** Arlington Pentagon - **125** American 77 - **59** Shanksville PA - United 93 - **40** Total - **2,977** (Note: includes the 19 hijackers) Currently only 1,401 have been identified. Only 12 bodies could be identified by sight. Another 673 bodies were identified by DNA alone. The other 716 were identified by other means and partial use of DNA. Over 90% of those died in the WTC were located above the site of impact in each tower. In addition an estimated 200 other people were killed directly when the jets crashed into each tower. The official investigation into ID’ing bodies ended in 2005. Since then remains of human bodies have been found, notably at the Deutsche Bank, when it was due to be demolished. Con-Ed also reported finding remains as have NYC road crews. The remains of nearly 100 people have been found in the are of the former WTC, though not all have been linked to WTC vitcims. In 2010 CBS News reported the sifting of the dumping site of the rubbish from the WTC located remains of 72 people. I also located a NY Times articles that says an additional two people have died from ailments they received at working at the WTC site clean up. As for the contents I found this from the NY Times: Comex was storing precious metals in vaults below the towers [ul] [li]Comex metals trading - 3,800 gold bars weighing 12 tonnes and worth more than $100 million[/li][li]Comex clients - 800,000 ounces of gold with a value of about $220 million[/li][li]Comex clients - 102 million ounces of silver, worth $430 million[/li][li]Bank of Nova Scotia - $200 million of gold[/li][/ul] However I can’t tell by the article if the 200 million from the Bank of Nova Scotia was part of Comex clients or separate. The problem comes from the fact, then Mayor Giuliani announced that $230 million dollars of gold and silver were recovered. This leaves a large margin unaccounted for. There are also huge errors for instance, I found another NY Times article estimating the value at a billion dollars. I found a NY Times article indicating the gold and silver was already mostly carried away by Sept 13th, a mere 2 days after the attacks. Obviously somebody is wrong about something. Theories range from most of the gold being carted off in abandoned subway tunnels that lead to the WTC before they collapsed, to outright theft or misrepresentation of the true value of what was in there. I’ve seen articles saying anywhere from 200 million to a billion dollars worth of gold and silver, which is a huge margin of error. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-simple-questions/584287/10 "2011-06-05T03:29:35Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > “Pawn Stars” recently taught me that a large amount of Helen Keller memorabilia was lost when the towers came down. > [@sh1bu1](#): > > No cite? Uh, Pawn Stars. mmm ---
**Author:** ![HardlySanguine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HardlySanguine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HardlySanguine)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-simple-questions/584287/11 "2011-06-05T03:42:14Z")
> [@Jake](#): > > > [@kayaker](#): > > > > Now that’s just dumb. > > Dumb, but FUNNY! Whoosh. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-simple-questions/584287/12 "2011-06-05T08:10:43Z")
> [@HardlySanguine](#): > > Whoosh. And what’s what you heard when Helen threw her voice. ---
**Author:** ![Uber\_the\_Goober](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/58956e/32.png) [@Uber\_the\_Goober](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uber_the_Goober)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-simple-questions/584287/13 "2011-06-05T14:39:38Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > [ul] > [li]Comex metals trading - 3,800 gold bars weighing 12 tonnes and worth more than $100 million[/li][li]Comex clients - 800,000 ounces of gold with a value of about $220 million[/li][li]Comex clients - 102 million ounces of silver, worth $430 million[/li][li]Bank of Nova Scotia - $200 million of gold[/li][/ul] > > However I can’t tell by the article if the 200 million from the Bank of Nova Scotia was part of Comex clients or separate. > > The problem comes from the fact, then Mayor Giuliani announced that $230 million dollars of gold and silver were recovered. This leaves a large margin unaccounted for. > > There are also huge errors for instance, I found another NY Times article estimating the value at a billion dollars. I found a NY Times article indicating the gold and silver was already mostly carried away by Sept 13th, a mere 2 days after the attacks. > > Obviously somebody is wrong about something. Theories range from most of the gold being carted off in abandoned subway tunnels that lead to the WTC before they collapsed, to outright theft or misrepresentation of the true value of what was in there. > > I’ve seen articles saying anywhere from 200 million to a billion dollars worth of gold and silver, which is a huge margin of error. So you’re telling me that the precious metals just _vaporized_? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-simple-questions/584287/14 "2011-06-05T16:30:04Z")
> [@echo6160](#): > > So you’re telling me that the precious metals just _vaporized_? I think what he’s saying is that the documentation is incomplete and/or contradictory. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2011, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-simple-questions/584287/15 "2011-06-05T20:18:37Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > Uh, Pawn Stars. > mmm [Helen Keller Archive lost in WTC](http://www.pw.org/content/helen_keller_archive_lost_world_trade_center_attack?cmnt_all=1) ---
**Author:** ![Uber\_the\_Goober](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/58956e/32.png) [@Uber\_the\_Goober](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uber_the_Goober)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-simple-questions/584287/16 "2011-06-06T02:32:09Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I think what he’s saying is that the documentation is incomplete and/or contradictory. On second read…that seems to make more sense. And I guess this is turning into a hijack…feel free to ignore 😛 However.. this does raise the question of just how easy it would be to say your highly insured gold (or whatever you have insured) was lost underneath the towers, or destroyed in a nearby building during the collapse. Talk about a perfect situation where the records would be unreliable…in case the records were contained entirely within the towers. So I’m really curious as to whether the gold or silver ever made it back to it’s proper owners, or if the insurance companies just paid out for it. It would be a little awkward to deal with a lot of gold being recovered and not really having anyone claim it because they were already paid for it’s value. I’m sure there was plenty of it that was mangled or damaged, enough so that any identifying marks would be unrecognizable. Perhaps there were some lucky first responders 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-simple-questions/584287/17 "2011-06-06T13:11:22Z")
> [@HardlySanguine](#): > > Whoosh. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-simple-questions/584287/18 "2011-06-06T13:24:29Z")
A few years ago I was researching an essay on the New York City Draft Riots of 1863, and learned that several hundred Civil War-era artifacts that had been excavated from the Five Points area (as seen in _The Gangs of New York_), in what is now Foley Square, were lost when the WTC fell. They had been in an archival vault in one of the outlying buildings - 5 WTC, maybe? They had no particular monetary value, but were historically priceless. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-simple-questions/584287/19 "2011-06-08T01:31:47Z")
> [@echo6160](#): > > On second read…that seems to make more sense. And I guess this is turning into a hijack…feel free to ignore 😛 > > However.. this does raise the question of just how easy it would be to say your highly insured gold (or whatever you have insured) was lost underneath the towers, or destroyed in a nearby building during the collapse. Talk about a perfect situation where the records would be unreliable…in case the records were contained entirely within the towers. > > So I’m really curious as to whether the gold or silver ever made it back to it’s proper owners, or if the insurance companies just paid out for it. It would be a little awkward to deal with a lot of gold being recovered and not really having anyone claim it because they were already paid for it’s value. I’m sure there was plenty of it that was mangled or damaged, enough so that any identifying marks would be unrecognizable. Perhaps there were some lucky first responders 🙂 Wasn’t there an outfit selling gold & silver from WTC under the “finders keepers” legal doctrine. There’s a thread on here about that somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![postcards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e8cbc/32.png) [@postcards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postcards)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-simple-questions/584287/20 "2011-06-08T11:49:28Z")
The Port Authority also lost a sizable [art collection](http://www.rense.com/general14/fineart.htm) in their offices at the WTC, among them copies of several Rodin sculptures. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-simple-questions/584287.md?page=2)