# 9/11 Suits **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 9, 2003, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-suits/200611 "2003-09-09T21:29:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-suits/200611/1 "2003-09-09T21:29:52Z")
[http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20030909\_1028.html](http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20030909_1028.html) ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-suits/200611/2 "2003-09-09T21:33:18Z")
Whoops wrong button. Anyhoo, is bringing the airlines to their knees financially the answer? Who the hell could have forseen what happened 2 years ago? This is yet another example of what will destroy this country. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-suits/200611/3 "2003-09-09T22:17:41Z")
This is bullshit, and lots of it. They’re suing the Port Authority because… what, they didn’t make their buildings utterly invincible? Find a code violation, and then we’ll talk. And why the fuck are they suing Boeing? “How dare you make planes that can fly!” What possible blame could Boeing have? Because they didn’t install anti-hijack devices in their planes? I’ve seen cow pies that make more legitimate lawsuits. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-suits/200611/4 "2003-09-09T22:20:52Z")
What next? Will the airlines sue the dead passengers for not killing the hijackers? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-suits/200611/5 "2003-09-09T22:50:34Z")
Well, apparently the allegation is that Boeing should have made it impossible to get into the cockpit from the cabin. Anyway, i agree with everyone else–ridiculous lawsuit. This is the bit that really gets me: > [@](#): > > The plaintiffs had also argued that American and United Airlines and the Port Authority were legally responsible to protect people on the ground when the hijacked aircraft smashed into the twin towers, causing them to collapse. How the fuck were they supposed to do that? I think this is simply the result of the frustration at having no-one to punish. The hijackers are already dead, no-one’s manages to find Bin Laden, and people still want someone to blame. I’m not going to rag on the judge for allowing the suit to go forward, becuase i don’t know all the arguments or what legal constraints bound his decision. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-suits/200611/6 "2003-09-09T23:11:07Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, apparently the allegation is that Boeing should have made it impossible to get into the cockpit from the cabin. Sheesh. Stupid fucking people. There was NO code and NO regulation that required this. We do NOT design our buildings, planes, trains, or automobiles (no pun intended) to take into account every single possible set of extenuating or extreme circumstances that might come down the pike. The 9/11 hijackings were an _unforeseeable act_. Why should designers take into account possibilities that they couldn’t possibly predict? Morons. Maybe if we should try to get a “user pays” law instituted before this suit goes to trial… ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-suits/200611/7 "2003-09-09T23:11:29Z")
It’s not like these people weren’t offered compensation. These stupid fucking lawsuits divert badly needed resources and are a total waste of _our_ money. Fucking pieces of shit. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-suits/200611/8 "2003-09-09T23:13:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > \*\*Morons. Maybe if we should try to get a “user pays” law instituted before this suit goes to trial… \*\* Yes, please. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-suits/200611/9 "2003-09-09T23:16:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tapioca Dextrin \* > \*\*What next? Will the airlines sue the dead passengers for not killing the hijackers? \*\* Sue the people who made jet fuel flamable. ---
**Author:** ![Slainte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a698b9/32.png) [@Slainte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slainte)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-suits/200611/10 "2003-09-09T23:55:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mhendo \* > \*\*I think this is simply the result of the frustration at having no-one to punish. The hijackers are already dead, no-one’s manages to find Bin Laden, and people still want someone to blame. > \*\* Nah, I think it’s about **money**. [From here](http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=519&u=/ap/20030909/ap_on_re_us/attacks_lawsuits_4&printer=1): > [@](#): > > Dec. 22 is the last day families may apply for the fund, created by Congress to provide financial aid to the families of those killed or injured in the attacks and to protect the commercial aviation industry from crippling litigation. > As of late August, 2,275 claims had been filed. But roughly 1,700 families had yet to decide whether to enroll with the fund or sue the airlines, security companies and government agencies. > The average payout has been about $1.5 million, with the highest award $6.8 million. The minimum payout is $250,000. > The fund has made offers averaging $1.41 million to 398 families thus far. About 1,600 families have filed papers stating an interest in applying for the fund. While I feel sympathy for the family & friends of the victims, _no amount of money is going to bring their loved ones back_. This will only cripple an already struggling aviation industry. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-suits/200611/11 "2003-09-10T00:02:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > \*\*Sheesh. Stupid fucking people. There was NO code and NO regulation that required this. We do NOT design our buildings, planes, trains, or automobiles (no pun intended) to take into account every single possible set of extenuating or extreme circumstances that might come down the pike. The 9/11 hijackings were an _unforeseeable act_. Why should designers take into account possibilities that they couldn’t possibly predict? > \*\* The hijackings were _not_ an unforeseeable act, and substantial debate occurred prior to 9-11 whether to make it more difficult to gain access to cockpits, for example. As it happens, the NTSB _opposed_ those who would have made cockpits more difficult to get into – there was an incident where a locked cockpit door hampered flight attendants’ efforts to make the cabin crew aware of a smoke condition. And I would say that prior to 9-11, the NTSB was correct – the balance of risks fell in favor of making cockpits more accessible. But that sounds to me like a not insane question of fact for a jury to decide. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-suits/200611/12 "2003-09-10T02:41:20Z")
There is a disturbing trend in our society to assume that if something bad happens, **someone** must be to blame. There are times, like this one, when that is sadly not true. I assume the lawsuits will not be successful. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-suits/200611/13 "2003-09-10T02:42:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Mace \* > \*\*I assume the lawsuits will not be successful. \*\* Unfortunely the money used to defend them will be all too real. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-suits/200611/14 "2003-09-10T03:42:13Z")
Happy anniversary. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-suits/200611/15 "2003-09-10T08:21:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Mace \* > \*\* I assume the lawsuits will not be successful. \*\* You, sir, are more optomistic than I. But this should serve as a reason for us to answer our jury summons’. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-suits/200611/16 "2003-09-10T10:02:27Z")
Actually, I can see the rationale for dragging the airlines into court. For one thing, various parties (including pilots) have been asking for about _thirty years_ to improve cockpit security. This was not done largely because of price. Since 9/11, however, the airlines have decided it is cheaper to replace doors rather than entire airplanes, flight crews, and passenger lists. Second, the Federal Aviation Regulations make it very clear that the pilot(s) (and, in legal cases, the owner of an airline) is entirely fiscally liable for damage caused by an accident, even if the accident is out of his/her/their control. This was explained to me in ground school “if you land in farmer Jones’ field and damage his corn crop, you must compensate him for the cost of the lost crop”. It’s why whenever a plane of any size crashes the pilot (or his/her estate) is sued. I think, however, at a certain point this line of reasoning becomes ridiculous. What good does suing the airlines, Port Authority, etc., do? As pointed out, it won’t bring anyone back. There are other means of obtaining compensation (which is unique to this situation - usually crime victims are shit out of luck). It’s ridiculous to hold these parties responsible for the actions of terrorists intent on causing mayhem. You can’t build and plan for EVERY emergency, and there will always be something unforeseen or unlikely that just may, in fact, happen. I think this is being done at the urging of lawyers who will be the only ones to profit from this. IF they win the case they will… what? Get money from already bankrupt airlines? The Port Authority? How big an award? It’s crazy. Although there is a right to sue anybody in this country, I’m still hoping that, after this sees a day in court, the greedy bastards will lose. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-suits/200611/17 "2003-09-10T13:00:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Broomstick \* > **Second, the Federal Aviation Regulations make it very clear that the pilot(s) (and, in legal cases, the owner of an airline) is entirely fiscally liable for damage caused by an accident, even if the accident is out of his/her/their control. This was explained to me in ground school “if you land in farmer Jones’ field and damage his corn crop, you must compensate him for the cost of the lost crop”. It’s why whenever a plane of any size crashes the pilot (or his/her estate) is sued.** The pilot’s estate is sued? Wow. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-suits/200611/18 "2003-09-10T13:32:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > \*\*The pilot’s estate is sued? Wow. \*\* Can you imagine being the family? Your loved one has just died, possibly (nay, probably) due to a situation entirely beyond his or her control, and suddenly you find yourself fighting bankruptcy because the estate is being sued. That’s some seriously fucked-up shit. **Broomstick** , do you have any links where we can read about this happening, or the rules governing pilot liability? ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-suits/200611/19 "2003-09-10T13:52:34Z")
Are the pilots’ estates actually being sued in _these_ cases? Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-suits/200611/20 "2003-09-10T13:55:21Z")
Like a center tank pump spark igniting the fuel vapors is the pilot’s fault. I think \*_Mace_ summed it up nicely, it seems like _someone_ always has to be at fault. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-suits/200611.md?page=2)