# 9/11 What If **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 7, 2011, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-what-if/595500 "2011-09-07T14:09:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-what-if/595500/21 "2011-09-07T22:31:03Z")
It seems to me that the biggest problem with crashing a jet into the Capitol building is being sued by Tom Clancy’s lawyers, since he already used that as the climax of Debt of Honor back in 1994. Of course, Clancy did it during a joint session of Congress. BTW we are having a joint session of Congress Thursday. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-what-if/595500/22 "2011-09-07T22:52:02Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > It seems to me that the biggest problem with crashing a jet into the Capitol building is being sued by Tom Clancy’s lawyers, since he already used that as the climax of Debt of Honor back in 1994. > > Of course, Clancy did it during a joint session of Congress. BTW we are having a joint session of Congress Thursday. The big difference between Thursday and Clancy is that Thursday there will be a CAP deployed and more than a few people looking skyward with SAMs. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-what-if/595500/23 "2011-09-07T23:19:09Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Yes, I’ve been inside actually. My assumption (possibly incorrect) is that in such a space it WOULD have caused more wide spread damage due to the impact and fireball. I don’t know how true that is…possibly my conception of how dangerous a plane filled with jet fuel would be in the Capital is a bit overstated. But the plane wouldn’t have been “filled with jet fuel”. Much of it would have mostly been used up in the flight from Boston, had the terrorists used the same planes. So the fireball would have been smaller. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-what-if/595500/24 "2011-09-08T00:34:59Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > The big difference between Thursday and Clancy is that Thursday there will be a CAP deployed and more than a few people looking skyward with SAMs. 😃 Actually they were were in the novel also. In fact one of them hit the hit the plane. Apparently bringing down jumbo jet with 4 engines when Ronald Reagan airport is only a few minutes away is harder than it looks. In the novel, it was the actual pilot that crashed it into the capitol, so there was no warning until he veered off course. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-what-if/595500/25 "2011-09-08T01:40:36Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > taking out the VP and Chief of Staff alone would be pretty big right there. Under that scenario, things would have worked out much better for America right there. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-what-if/595500/26 "2011-09-08T02:06:14Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > It seems to me that the biggest problem with crashing a jet into the Capitol building is being sued by Tom Clancy’s lawyers, since he already used that as the climax of Debt of Honor back in 1994. > > Of course, Clancy did it during a joint session of Congress. BTW we are having a joint session of Congress Thursday. The weird thing is that in Tom Clancy’s world, where terrorists detonated a nuclear bomb at the Superbowl (1991- _The Sum of All Fears_) and crashed an airplane into the capital building killing the entire national government (1996 - _Debt of Honor_), the 9/11 attacks in 2001 are still considered the biggest terrorist attack in our nation’s history. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-what-if/595500/27 "2011-09-08T02:09:48Z")
I don’t think I have read a Clancy book since Debt of Honor…did all of those things, including 9/11 happen in the same ‘universe’? Didn’t his main character become president for a while? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-what-if/595500/28 "2011-09-08T02:13:13Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Why is it that you would expect a hijacker to specifically target the West Wing, where the leaders would be? To be fair the White house is 168 feet long and 85 feet wide. ([cite](http://www.whitehousehistory.org/whha_history/history_facts-01.html)) Flight-93 was a 757-200. It has a wingspan of 124 feet and is 155 feet long. ([cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_757#Specifications)) If such a plane hit the White House dead-on it has a good chance of taking the whole thing out. No need to aim for the West Wing. ---
**Author:** ![sannemoore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@sannemoore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sannemoore)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-what-if/595500/29 "2011-09-08T02:19:11Z")
What if, is a though that will not enter into my mind… What if, does not change anything…What if is not productive… The question should be what now… Wow, I think I am a poet… ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-what-if/595500/30 "2011-09-08T02:43:52Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > If such a plane hit the White House dead-on it has a good chance of taking the whole thing out. > > No need to aim for the West Wing. Good point, but the West Wing isn’t part of the main building. It is more like an annex that’s probably 75 yards from the residence. Take a look at Google maps. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-what-if/595500/31 "2011-09-08T02:57:36Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I don’t think I have read a Clancy book since Debt of Honor…did all of those things, including 9/11 happen in the same ‘universe’? Didn’t his main character become president for a while? > -XT Jack Ryan was president for two books. He fought a war against Iran/Iraq and against China with Russia as an Ally. Robbie Jackson succeeded him as the first black president and was assassinated by a racist. The last two books use Jack Ryan Jr as the main character. The Rainbow 6 book has became a major video game spinoff. I understand that Ubisoft paid Clancy 100 million for his intellectual property rights. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-what-if/595500/32 "2011-09-08T03:25:08Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Good point, but the West Wing isn’t part of the main building. It is more like an annex that’s probably 75 yards from the residence. Take a look at Google maps. Ah…I didn’t know that. (I suppose I once did but last time I was there I was in 7th grade so have had ample time to forget.) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-what-if/595500/33 "2011-09-08T05:10:20Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > Robbie Jackson succeeded him as the first black president and was assassinated by a racist. I was never really clear on the chronology of these events. They happened “off-camera” and it was written after Clancy apparently stopped editing his books. Jack Ryan was President and apparently served a second term (I’m not sure if his partial first term was more or less than two years so I don’t know if he was eligible to be re-elected once or twice). Robbie Jackson, who was Ryan’s VP, is elected President and is assassinated. Former VP Ed Kealty became President at some point. Did Jackson pick Kealty as his running mate? That seems incredibly unlikely. But if not, then somebody else was Jackson’s Vice President and must have become President when Jackson was assassinated. But there’s no mention of anyone else being President during this time. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-what-if/595500/34 "2011-09-08T12:49:36Z")
IIRC, Jackson is assassinated as VP, not Prez. That gives Ryan’s party no incumbent, and Kealty wins the election. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-what-if/595500/35 "2011-09-08T15:26:35Z")
what if they had understood that it would be successful (and thus a one-off attempt) and had the resources to hijack more planes? how many planes were up in the air at the time? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-what-if/595500/36 "2011-09-08T15:45:44Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > IIRC, Jackson is assassinated as VP, not Prez. That gives Ryan’s party no incumbent, and Kealty wins the election. I’m pretty sure there was something Presidential about Jackson when he was killed. He was either President, President-elect, or at least a Presidential candidate. I haven’t read Clancy’s latest books but apparently Ryan is running against Kealty for the Presidency. So it appears that his first term must have been less than two years. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-what-if/595500/37 "2011-09-08T16:19:51Z")
[http://books.google.com/books?id=BdUEOlmPM1wC&printsec=frontcover&dq=teeth+of+the+tiger&hl=en&src=bmrr&ei=mOVoTrvcKNO4tgfXmJSYDQ&sa=X&oi=book\_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=robby%20jackson&f=false](http://books.google.com/books?id=BdUEOlmPM1wC&printsec=frontcover&dq=teeth+of+the+tiger&hl=en&src=bmrr&ei=mOVoTrvcKNO4tgfXmJSYDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=robby%20jackson&f=false) It was pretty clear that Robby Jackson was President. I’m not clear how Kealty became President. It seems unlikely the he was Jackson’s VP. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-what-if/595500.md?page=1)