# 9/11 wreckage **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 16, 2009, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567 "2009-01-16T05:42:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/181 "2009-01-17T17:31:53Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > **GIGO** , what makes you think I was contesting that? A simple way to determine the veracity of that video, is to ask if any of the other people appearing are affiliated with OBL. If nobody recognises any of these accomplices, there may be a case. Ok, I was willing to give the benefit of the doubt to you but all here can see that you did not check the links. **Others recognized the OBL accomplices in the tape.** That is a certifiable pathetic position to have, if you do not mention an specific item fom Tarpley’s book to investigate, it is irrelevant to point out no one here has bothered to rip him a deserved new one. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/182 "2009-01-17T17:51:11Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Ok, I was willing to give the benefit of the doubt to you but all here can see that you did not check the links. > > **Others recognized the OBL accomplices in the tape.** And as I mentioned, I wasn’t interested in that tape. There were 12 pages + to look at, and I wasn’t going to peruse them all. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > That is a certifiable pathetic position to have, if you do not mention an specific item fom Tarpley’s book to investigate, it is irrelevant to point out no one here has bothered to rip him a deserved new one. Again, I haven’t read it. I was hoping it might have already been critiqued on here, but apparently not. Using the search facility, this is the only thread that has mentioned him. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/183 "2009-01-17T18:05:49Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > And as I mentioned, I wasn’t interested in that tape. There were 12 pages + to look at, and I wasn’t going to peruse them all. > Again, I haven’t read it. I was hoping it might have already been critiqued on here, but apparently not. Using the search facility, this is the only thread that has mentioned him. :rolleyes: As mentioned before, it is irrelevant. First, if you check what I replied to **jessesheeran** that reply was only related to the October surprise and the points she brought, I clearly avoided refuting anything from the book since I did not mention it, I did not read it and you also did not. The replies are also directed to the latest posts by\*\* reef shark\*\* Second, you need to realize that \*\*jessesheeran \*\*was banned, so only she could had explained if any points mentioned came from the book, because she is out then you or someone else then need to mention a point from the book to continue this “engrossing” discussion, but looking at the posts so far I have to conclude that dealing with the items in that book would be also like shooting fish in a barrel. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/184 "2009-01-17T18:25:08Z")
> [@jessesheeran](#): > > i disagree, there are plausible alternate theories out there, namely Steve E. Jones discovery that thermite was used to cut the steel, “Why Indeed did the WTC buildings Completely Collapse” > –but whater the case-- there is absolutely nothing wrong **just pointing out anomalies** in the official theory > **one could even go on to say** > from: [Scholars for 9/11 Truth & Justice](http://stj911.org/hypotheses/alternative.html) (also the place to find a .pdf of the Steve E Jones paper) You also have millions of ceiling tiles (this alone would account for much of the cloud), hundreds of tons of dry wall (again, very dusty when broken), partially incinerated material of all sorts and concrete with re-bar in it (concrete gets ripped apart as the re-bar bends and twists). Pipe and ductwork insulation and carpet and furniture fibers. Not to mention probably thousands of plants (potted with soil) and porcelain fixtures, millions of tiles (don’t forget the leveling cement and grout) and pipes filled with water (water vaporized when pipes burst). Any and all of these materials create an incredible amount of dust. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/185 "2009-01-17T20:22:09Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > interesting, does anyone know what exactly the pentagon walls are made of? if you look at any pictures of the inside damage, there are wooden planks everywhere. im pretty sure the outside is concrete. The outside is primarily reinforced masonry (see below). > [@](#): > > _what perplexes me is that there isnt even an outline of where the wings wouldve been._ Here, damage caused by the starboard wing: [![](https://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/photos/docs/blue6.jpg) ](https://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/photos/docs/blue6.jpg) > **[Sign in - Google Accounts](https://accounts.google.com/v3/signin/identifier?continue=https%3A%2F%2Fsites.google.com%2Fsite%2Fwtc7lies%2FPentWingHole.jpg%2FPentWingHole-full.jpg&dsh=S924808158%3A1775261502913368&followup=https%3A%2F%2Fsites.google.com%2Fsite%2Fwtc7lies%2FPentWingHole.jpg%2FPentWingHole-full.jpg&osid=1&passive=1209600&flowName=GlifWebSignIn&flowEntry=ServiceLogin&ifkv=AT1y2_XYPcyk91T-QvaTMmVX5uX-aJacW_-77J5BU5sVain6fkFQzhW3t7Fk7hNsCp4c_imD1Zbk)** [![](http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/4.jpg) ](http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/4.jpg) [![](http://www.gamelogos.com/temp/starboard-wing.jpg) ](http://www.gamelogos.com/temp/starboard-wing.jpg) [http://www.questionsquestions.net/pentagon/pentagonimages/pentagonjpgs](http://www.questionsquestions.net/pentagon/pentagonimages/pentagonjpgs) /right-wing-gash2.jpg The last one can be accessed via [Questions Questions](http://www.questionsquestions.net/pentagon/sfdpentagon.html) if it doesn’t work directly. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/186 "2009-01-17T23:53:09Z")
> [@jessesheeran](#): > > …wonder why he would do that? do what? lose his microphone and then find it again? i don’t know… I know you are banned, but why do you think it odd that OBL doesn’t bring his microphone to what is just a gathering? This was basically someone shooting his ‘business’ meeting, not something prepared for the press. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/187 "2009-01-18T02:55:59Z")
**GIGObuster** and **ivan astikov** , your meta-debate over whether you are arguing the correct positions is boring and your hostility is going to get one or both of you in trouble. Stick to the actual issues of the thread or wander off to the **BBQ Pit** , please. [/Modding] ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/188 "2009-01-18T04:17:45Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > **GIGObuster** and **ivan astikov** , your meta-debate over whether you are arguing the correct positions is boring and your hostility is going to get one or both of you in trouble. > > Stick to the actual issues of the thread or wander off to the **BBQ Pit** , please. > > [/Modding] I Apologize for that, I see now that I confused **ivan astikov** with \*\*jessesheeran \*\* in the last reply. I’m still not sure why he jumped at me when I was only replying to \*\*jessesheeran \*\* But, are you saying here that we should reply to all or any of the items in Tarpley’s book? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/189 "2009-01-18T05:12:30Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > But the strategy is the same: ask questions. Never _answer_ questions, just use endless questions to create doubt. Insinuate that the truth is undiscovered but take no steps toward establishing any. Loudly demand the “truth” but never make any statements that can be denied. > > **Reef shark** and **jessesheeran** , this is Great Debates. This is not Great Insinuations. This is worth repeating. Hell, it’s worth more than repeating. It’s worth tattooing on a leg of beef and beating people in the head with it. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/190 "2009-01-18T06:11:09Z")
It amazes me that intellegent people still think a plane flying into a building should leave a hole that is plane shaped. Like it’s a cartoon or something. I guess if I threw myself throw a paper wall, the wall would tear exactly as if it were my sillouette ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/191 "2009-01-18T06:24:01Z")
Is the OP Canadian by any chance? I had the, um, “good fortune” to meet a Canadian here in Bangkok in a Khao San Road bar a couple of years ago who tried his damnedest to sow seeds of doubt in my mind concerning 9/11. There was a clear implication that the US government did the whole thing itself. The OP sounds a lot like him. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/192 "2009-01-18T06:34:08Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > It amazes me that intellegent people still think a plane flying into a building should leave a hole that is plane shaped. I’m amazed that people (anyone that is not an expert in the relevant fields) think they can analyze an incredibly complex phenomenon (building falling) that happens rarely (after getting hit by plane) and concluding anything based on what the concrete or steel looks like in the rubble afterward. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/193 "2009-01-18T07:02:43Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > I’m amazed that people (anyone that is not an expert in the relevant fields) think they can analyze an incredibly complex phenomenon (building falling) that happens rarely (after getting hit by plane) and concluding anything based on what the concrete or steel looks like in the rubble afterward. And it always amazes me that some people automatically assume that the most convoluted and improbable answer is the correct one. Two planes flown into buildings? Of course the third one had to be a missle. Wha??? We see planes hit each tower. The buildings collapse. We see the collapse begin at the exact point where the planes hit. Of course they collapsed because of charges snuck into the building by an army of CIA buttonmen. They knew eactly where the planes would hit. Makes perfect sense. The crazies always try to get past the improbability by always saying “But I’m only asking questions.” Well try listening to the answers. If you don’t like them then come up with some real answers. Otherwise STFU. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/194 "2009-01-18T07:11:11Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > It amazes me that intellegent people still think a plane flying into a building should leave a hole that is plane shaped. Like it’s a cartoon or something. I guess if I threw myself throw a paper wall, the wall would tear exactly as if it were my sillouette To be fair, the planes did make “plane shaped” holes in the WTC. But, of course, the WTC isn’t the Pentagon.. ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/195 "2009-01-18T07:52:07Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > I’m amazed that people (anyone that is not an expert in the relevant fields) think they can analyze an incredibly complex phenomenon (building falling) that happens rarely (after getting hit by plane) and concluding anything based on what the concrete or steel looks like in the rubble afterward. for the previous poster, im not canadien. born and raised in the US i agree that the destruction of the buildings would leave very little to study as evidence in terms of appearances alone. however chemical tests could tell us a great deal im not saying there were bombs in the buildings beforehand, i would rather question the evidence (or lack of) following the tragedies, and also the actions of certain govt officials before, during, and after that day it has been roughly 8 yrs but new things (like ex govt/atc official accounts) turn up all the time, and these people dont write books and seek fame like monica ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/196 "2009-01-18T07:56:52Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > And it always amazes me that some people automatically assume that the most convoluted and improbable answer is the correct one. Two planes flown into buildings? Of course the third one had to be a missle. Wha??? We see planes hit each tower. The buildings collapse. We see the collapse begin at the exact point where the planes hit. Of course they collapsed because of charges snuck into the building by an army of CIA buttonmen. They knew eactly where the planes would hit. Makes perfect sense. > > The crazies always try to get past the improbability by always saying “But I’m only asking questions.” Well try listening to the answers. If you don’t like them then come up with some real answers. Otherwise STFU. fact: we see what the media feeds us fact: much of this is censored fact: at first glance (on the news) someone may be unable to tell if a video or pic is real or has been altered and lastly, it is fact that there are several cameras surrounding the pentagon, not to mention over route 27, on the marriott, and on local gas stations that surveill the area constantly. johnny from LA: not all cameras focus inside their building- what happened to all these tapes? why werent they released? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/197 "2009-01-18T08:03:36Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > im not saying there were bombs in the buildings beforehand, i would rather question the evidence (or lack of) following the tragedies, and also the actions of certain govt officials before, during, and after that day Why? You’re clearly not interested in answers if they’re too straightforward and simple when something preposterous and absurd can more easily hold your interest. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/198 "2009-01-18T08:13:35Z")
The moon is made of cheese. I know this because it is kinda cheese coloured. And round. And it has things that maybe holes if you squint real hard. The astronauts who landed on the moon (did they really ?? - it sure looks like Wisconsin) brought back several pounds of various dairy products to prove this. “The surface is fine and powdery” that sure sounds like what someone might say if they had just stepped on top of a giant wedge of Brie. The fact that the government denies this and is currently holding me in a “lunatic asylum” is proof that there is a secret underground bunker holding millions of tons Moon Cheddar. No one can possibly deny these obviously true facts. Unless they are part of the conspiracy, of course. ---
**Author:** ![reef\_shark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@reef\_shark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reef_shark)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/199 "2009-01-18T08:15:07Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Why? You’re clearly not interested in answers if they’re too straightforward and simple when something preposterous and absurd can more easily hold your interest. are you giving any answers? every one of your posts on this thread has been littered with adjectives. provide some actual facts about what im talking about- specifically the dozens of cameras in the DC area that would have recorded what happened and were in fact confiscated by the feds and never released. im guessing you wont, just stick with insults and adjectives ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2009, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/200 "2009-01-18T08:26:53Z")
Why do we need the cameras’ evidence when we have witnesses and wreckage that say, yes indeed, a plane crashed into the Pentagon? In any case, a plane zipping across the landscape is actually pretty hard to catch on a security camera unless it’s pointed at just the right angle, simply because the plane would go in and out of frame at extreme speed. _Are_ there people actually complaining that their tapes were grabbed and not returned? I know a lot of conspiracy sites claim so, but I’d like an independent opinion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567.md?page=11)