# 9/11 wreckage **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 16, 2009, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567 "2009-01-16T05:42:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/161 "2009-01-17T07:56:33Z")
OK, I’ll take you through the thinking step by step. I know this whole cognitive process is not for the faint hearted, and may frighten at first. - You claim there never were any attacks, it’s all the government. - Said government hypnotise the whole of NYC to make them believe they saw planes (seriously. You’re an idiot.). - They then topple the towers to make the American public really really angry, so they can move in on Iraq. - During the fake investigation-slash-cover up, they unearth the identities of the hijackers of the planes that didn’t exist. In other words, their own, preassigned patsies. - These patsies come from Saudi Arabia. Is there something that doesn’t fit ? See if you can spot it in one. I admit, I helped you there. By underlining what doesn’t fit. ---
**Author:** ![jessesheeran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ccd318/32.png) [@jessesheeran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jessesheeran)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/162 "2009-01-17T08:35:45Z")
i’m really done with this thread personally, like I said, I do not understand physics enough to contribute here, but… one more thing. > [@](#): > > Now, if you’re a shadow mastermind organisation… don’t you have the means to edit the footage from the security cams to show a plane ? Wouldn’t releasing said edited footage be further proof, and silence the disbelievers i doubt it. i’m sure the best minds in **this** particular field earn their paychecks in hollywood. and if they got even one definitive pixel wrong it would all be over. way too risky to use anything computer generated and attempt to pass it off as real. will this change in the next five years or so?? probably it **does** remind me of a close friend’s parents (who were gun-toting conservative types) who said that the Fahrenheit 911 scene of Bush in the classroom looking like a scared moron when he learned of the attacks - was - yes- computer generated. I mean, **now** in **2009** , we are at the point where _ **maybe** _ there are photoshop fakes out there that are good enough that the forgery **could possibly** go undected by the internet public, but if Michael Moore created a 10 minute short film that was computer generated, and did it so well that many people beleived it to be real, well then he really **would** deserve an oscar ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/163 "2009-01-17T09:06:10Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > well besides my veering off the wreckage into the cause of the tragedy, ( i admit i did) > > #116 > > shady at best Let’s assume for a minute that it really is an actor, playing Ben Laden, to pin the conspiracy on him. It’s a great idea, right ? He’s known for not really liking the US, and threatening to blow shit up. Except all the \*real \*Ben Laden has to do to fuck up your little masterplan is send a tape of his own, to any news agency in the world (or does the shadow conspiracy control every single bit of news, everywhere ? Even Al Jazeera ?), saying “nope, wasn’t me. It’s an actor etc… (underlining the same shit that makes you believe it’s not really him)”. And then your whole conspiracy is blown to shit. What’s that ? Why would he do that instead of going along with it and taking the cred ? Why, maybe to fuck with the American people and make it justifiably afraid of its own government, which would be more effective than a few diss tapes ? Maybe he’s in on it too :eek: ! Is he in the same secret retreat buried under area 51 as the allegedly dead passengers of the airplanes that didn’t exist ?! @jesse : you mean, more risky than a huge conspiracy involving thousand of investigators, secret agents, secret bomb planters and all the extravagant crap necessary to pull a controlled demolition cum plane crash ? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/164 "2009-01-17T09:17:46Z")
(hell, they wouldn’t even need to CGI anything. Just film a nondescript strip of highway, or a parking lot or whatever, and fly a real plane over it. Film it through grainy, lowdef securicams, and who’s gonna know ? Every single man who had his footage taken away from him will think “this ain’t mine, probably some other dude’s”. Case closed.) ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/165 "2009-01-17T11:50:11Z")
Has anyone ripped [Webster Griffin Tarpley](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webster_Tarpley) a new arsehole yet? This doesn’t seem to be the type of man to get taken in by foolishness. Or is he believed to have an ulterior motive, like selling books? > [@](#): > > In 2005, Tarpley’s 9/11 Synthetic Terror: Made in USA gained a following. On October 7, 2006, [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com)’s top non-fiction book reviewer, Robert David Steele, called it “the strongest of the 770+ books I have reviewed here at Amazon.” ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/166 "2009-01-17T13:14:15Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > . . . stupidity. > [@Kobal2](#): > > (seriously. You’re an idiot.). Guys, I know this is getting frustrating, but back off the personal insults. [/Modding] ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/167 "2009-01-17T14:12:26Z")
> [@reef\_shark](#): > > [The Fake 2001 Osama bin Laden Video Tape](http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/osamatape.html?q=osamatape.html) > > the 4 pics at the bottom show there is an odd man out This is idiocy. First, they are compared prepared statement videos with locations chosen for lighting with the equivalent of a home movie. They then go on to declare: > [@](#): > > The “bin Laden” in video #3 has the wrong beard color, Looks on target to me. > [@](#): > > and his views and health are inconsistent with those of the real bin Laden. These idiots declare Osama’s health to be ‘good’ on the basis of what exactly? I can guess: Osama looks a tad chubby and well fed in the videos. But that is an artifact of the video type more than anything else. [Have a look!](http://www.muckrakerreport.com/id372.html) > [@](#): > > Also, if video #3 was a true bin Laden confession then why didn’t he attribute 9/11 to avenging the suffering of Muslims, especially since America was attacking the country in which he was living? Because again, this was not a prepared video statement. It was just someone shooting video at ‘home’. > [@](#): > > The poor image quality of video #3 stands out when compared to the genuine bin Laden videos. There is also excessive noise on the video’s audio track, making it impossible to really hear what is being said. Given that the tape was recorded in an area supposedly devoid of audio urban signature there should have been little ambient noise, yet the speech is masked with a great deal of noise. This is just beyond idiotic. Anyone who has worked with the microphone built into a camera knows its limitations with regards to ambient noise and acoustics. If they had thought for a single PICOSECOND about this they might have noticed that OBL is using a handheld microphone in the other videos. Gee, wonder why he would do that? This is quite a bit of idiocy you have latched your wagon to. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/168 "2009-01-17T14:46:03Z")
Good find and explanation \*\*Mr. Miskatonic \*\* 9/11 myths has more images and videos. [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=2001+bin+Laden+Video+Tape+evidence+confirmed&start=10&sa=N](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=2001+bin+Laden+Video+Tape+evidence+confirmed&start=10&sa=N) I also did have suspicions when the tape came out, but the evidence here and in other places has convinced me that there is no good reason now to think that the tape was not real. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/169 "2009-01-17T15:06:58Z")
And for good measure, here is the evidence showing why the tapes from the gas station close to the pentagon showed little to no evidence: > **[The Tech Behind the Glow – Exploring the Science of Modern Skincare Devices |...](https://www.debunk911myths.org)** > > Learn how advanced skincare devices use science to transform your skin — from LED therapy to vibration and toning tools. > [@](#): > > In September 2006, the footage was finally released. The quality of the video is rather poor, with the screen showing split views of six cameras. Two are from inside the store, with the people there blurred for privacy reasons. The video doesn’t show anything clearly of the crash of American Airlines Flight 77. The security camera was pointing away from the Pentagon entirely, towards the gas station entrance on South Joyce Street. Though, at 4:43 in the video, a flash is visible in the upper right, which is probably the impact. Although I do prefer to point at a cite before calling something bullshit, \*\*Bryan Ekers \*\*was right, these latest points from the conspiracy theorists are bullshit. (This goes also for all their points so far in this thread.) ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/170 "2009-01-17T15:42:06Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > (This goes also for all their points so far in this thread.) Does that include me? You do realise the OCT is also a “conspiracy theory”, don’t you? Albeit one endorsed by the mainstream media. Has anyone on here read Tarpley’s book to decide if there is enough ‘wrongness’ in it to discount the whole? ---
**Author:** ![jessesheeran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ccd318/32.png) [@jessesheeran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jessesheeran)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/171 "2009-01-17T15:43:08Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > This is just beyond idiotic. Anyone who has worked with the microphone built into a camera knows its limitations with regards to ambient noise and acoustics. If they had thought for a single PICOSECOND about this they might have noticed that OBL is using a handheld microphone in the other videos. Gee, wonder why he would do that? > > This is quite a bit of idiocy you have latched your wagon to. …wonder why he would do that? do what? lose his microphone and then find it again? i don’t know… ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/172 "2009-01-17T15:54:56Z")
> [@jessesheeran](#): > > …wonder why he would do that? do what? lose his microphone and then find it again? i don’t know… I think I’m noticing a pattern here. Have you ever considered posting what you _do_ know? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/173 "2009-01-17T16:13:35Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Does that include me? You do realise the OCT is also a “conspiracy theory”, don’t you? Albeit one endorsed by the mainstream media. Has anyone on here read Tarpley’s book to decide if there is enough ‘wrongness’ in it to discount the whole? If you are referring to the October surprise with Reagan and Iranian hostages, that was bullshit too: [http://www.newsweek.com/id/127304/page/1](http://www.newsweek.com/id/127304/page/1) Evidence for Iran-Contra did not show that Reagan contacted the Iranians regarding the US embassy hostages. And yes, so far your 9/11 points are also bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/174 "2009-01-17T16:28:06Z")
McCarthy had better evidence of Communists than the 9/11 people have of a giant conspiracy. McCarthy, in fact, had confessions; and there _were_ Communists and sympathizers. But the strategy is the same: ask questions. Never _answer_ questions, just use endless questions to create doubt. Insinuate that the truth is undiscovered but take no steps toward establishing any. Loudly demand the “truth” but never make any statements that can be denied. **Reef shark** and **jessesheeran** , this is Great Debates. This is not Great Insinuations. 1. Declare a position. Own that position. Defend that position. 2. Provide _facts_ to support your position. Link to reliable _unbiased_ sources that support your facts. 3. Do not appeal to authority, appeal to doubt, or make _ad hominem_ attacks against Bush or his administration. Prove that there _was_ a conspiracy. Don’t attempt to prove that Bush was evil or stupid enough that there _could_ have been a conspiracy; that proves nothing. You’ll be surprised how well this board can handle the truth, presented in a rational way. There are some extremely intelligent professional people here, and some gifted amateur thinkers as well. If your argument has any merit it will stand on its own. If not, not. ---
**Author:** ![BrandonR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BrandonR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrandonR)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/175 "2009-01-17T16:29:08Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I think I’m noticing a pattern here. Have you ever considered posting what you _do_ know? That’s not going to help his post count any though… ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/176 "2009-01-17T17:13:09Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > If you are referring to the October surprise with Reagan and Iranian hostages, that was bullshit too: > > [http://www.newsweek.com/id/127304/page/1](http://www.newsweek.com/id/127304/page/1) > > Evidence for Iran-Contra did not show that Reagan contacted the Iranians regarding the US embassy hostages. WTF does any of the above have to do with Tarpley’s book, or 9/11? Are you saying discreditting La Rouche invalidates everything Tarpley has wrote? > [@GIGObuster](#): > > And yes, so far your 9/11 points are also bullshit. Pot, kettle, fella. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/177 "2009-01-17T17:15:51Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Good find and explanation \*\*Mr. Miskatonic > \*\* > 9/11 myths has more images and videos. > > [Google Search](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=2001+bin+Laden+Video+Tape+evidence+confirmed&start=10&sa=N) > > I also did have suspicions when the tape came out, but the evidence here and in other places has convinced me that there is no good reason now to think that the tape was not real. Got the wrong link there: > **[911myths](https://web.archive.org/web/20191216033221/http://www.911myths.com/index.php?title=Main_Page)** That is the correct link. > [@](#): > > The reality is that there are plenty of people who say the video is genuine, and not just in the Bush administration. Here’s a conversation between Al Jazeera London bureau chief Yosri Fouda and TBS Publisher and Senior Editor S. Abdallah Schleifer. > > > [@](#): > > > > SAS: …there was the much earlier amateurishly filmed video tape that the American government says they found in Afghanistan… in which a militant Saudi sheikh, visiting with Bin Ladin leads Bin Ladin into an acknowledgement that it was Al-Qa’ida operatives known only to him and a few others, who staged the operation and Bin Ladin re-enacts his great joy when the operation succeeded well beyond his expectations. My intuition as a journalist told me when I watched the tape on CNN that it was authentic and that it was Bin Ladin but my intuition also told me that the Sheikh was an intelligence agent, probably for the Americans and the their taped conversation a sting operation. A few days later a respectable British newspaper confirmed it was a sting but they said it was set up by Saudi intelligence. And certainly the former head of Saudi intelligence has made it clear in no uncertain terms that 9/11 was an Al-Qa’ida operation. Now despite all of this and other documentation, so many Arabs were in a state of denial and many are still in a state of denial, insisting that Al-Qa’ida or any Arabs for that matter could not have had anything to do with this operation, that this was a Mossad or CIA operation. > > > > YF: …Until I got to meet Ramzi and Khalid there was a lot of doubt as to the possibility that that tape might have been fabricated. But I got it on videotape from one of the other people from Al-Qa’ida who were there at the apartment that the tape was legitimate. I asked him whether that tape was genuine and he said it was. And in the end when I went back I put that Saudi Sheikh’s video tape with Bin Ladin on and listened to it for four or five times, and certain bits and pieces that Bin Ladin said on that tape fit in very nicely with what Ramzi and Khalid had said to me. You know like the first time that they knew of the zero hour. > > SAS: I understand what you are saying and I’ve been convinced of that tape’s authenticity since the beginning. And your experience just confirms it. > > [Transnational Broadcasting Fall / Winter 2004](http://www.tbsjournal.com/Archives/Fall02/Fouda.html) > > It’s also worth remembering that this is just one of the tapes in which bin Laden or al Qaeda either explicitly or implicitly accept responsibility for the 9/11 attacks. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/178 "2009-01-17T17:22:01Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > WTF does any of the above have to do with Tarpley’s book, or 9/11? Are you saying discreditting La Rouche invalidates everything Tarpley has wrote? > > Pot, kettle, fella. I was not talking about the book, but replying to the points on the Osama and gas station tapes and the October surprise that the conspiracy minded poster mentioned. Mention an specific point form Tarpley’s book that was not bullshit and then we can see if your pathetic last retort was even valid. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/179 "2009-01-17T17:23:31Z")
**GIGO** , what makes you think I was contesting that? A simple way to determine the veracity of that video, is to ask if any of the other people appearing are affiliated with OBL. If nobody recognises any of these accomplices, there may be a case. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2009, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567/180 "2009-01-17T17:27:27Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I was not talking about the book, but replying to the points on the Osama and gas station tapes and the October surprise that the conspiracy minded poster mentioned. > > Mention an specific point form Tarpley’s book that was not bullshit and then we can see if your pathetic last retort was even valid. I haven’t even read Tarpley’s book; that’s how much of a truther I am. I was hoping more intelligent people here might have read it, and be able to rip it apart methodically. I doubt if you are up to the task, with your pathetic resorts to insulting behaviour. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11-wreckage/481567.md?page=10)