# 9/11 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 13, 2012, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099 "2012-07-13T12:46:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/181 "2012-07-19T20:19:01Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > I think I can say for sure the basements were wired in both buildings, just from eyewitness accounts, including NYFD. Let’s all focus in on this claim until it is answered. Cite, please? ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/182 "2012-07-19T20:24:47Z")
I thought we settled this issue a few pages back with the orbital vaporizing laser announcement? Did you all miss it? ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/183 "2012-07-19T20:26:24Z")
> [@AndrewL](#): > > There were not only reports of explosions in the basements, but people injured by those explosions as well. It is instructive to look at the nature of their injuries. Eyewitnesses to the explosions in the basements report people with blackened clothing and skin, and in some cases with skin burned off or hanging off them. > > Demolition explosives are very high speed, but don’t actually generate much heat. Injuries from being too close to that type of explosion are typically due to shrapnel or barotrauma due to the shock wave. The injuries seen on the people in the basements of the towers are consistent with being exposed to burning liquid or vapors. There is evidence that following the airplane impacts burning jet fuel poured down the elevator shafts, which would be consistent with the injuries and eyewitness reports. > > There are, but it is important to note that these happen after the collapse has already begun. Furthermore, the color of the puffs of dust/smoke don’t seem to resemble the explosions from cutting charges, which as already pointed out are very bright, very fast, very loud, and leave a black smoke cloud. > > We have. Why do you assume that the people who disagree with you have not seen all the evidence? You are not the first 9/11 conspiracy theorist to come by here by a long shot, and you have yet to bring anything that hasn’t been brought up and debunked many times before. I agree with most of your conclusions here, but I do have a hard time believing that the fireball traveled down the elevator shafts when we saw most of it burn outside the building. Add to that the fact that the eyewitnesses on the grround levels don’t really describe anything like a massive fireball coming out of the elevator shafts, and I conclude that they were people burned in the upper floors. I’ll have to rewatch, but I think that was stated in the videos. The way I remmenber the videos is just people talking about a shockwave and a sound. The mantainance man really sticks out. I belive he was in the sub-basment. His account sounds like expolsives to me. I can see there will be a dispute over this, so I will link to the videos i’m seeing. No CT nonsense, just raw video. ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/184 "2012-07-19T20:27:51Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Let’s all focus in on this claim until it is answered. Cite, please? I gave you a cite, eyewitness accounts. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/185 "2012-07-19T20:28:27Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > I gave you a cite, eyewitness accounts. Post a link to the eyewitness accounts. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/186 "2012-07-19T20:28:29Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > I can see there will be a dispute over this, so I will link to the videos i’m seeing. No CT nonsense, just raw video. On what basis are you judging the videos? Have you seen a lot of building collapses that were not controlled demolitions? If not, how can you tell the difference? ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/187 "2012-07-19T20:28:42Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > … when we saw most of it burn outside the building. How do you know most of it burned outside the building? (hint: you don’t) > [@](#): > > No CT nonsense… Too late. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/188 "2012-07-19T20:29:30Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > I agree with most of your conclusions here, but I do have a hard time believing that the fireball traveled down the elevator shafts when we saw most of it burn outside the building. > > Add to that the fact that the eyewitnesses on the grround levels don’t really describe anything like a massive fireball coming out of the elevator shafts, and I conclude that they were people burned in the upper floors. I’ll have to rewatch, but I think that was stated in the videos. > > The way I remmenber the videos is just people talking about a shockwave and a sound. > > The mantainance man really sticks out. I belive he was in the sub-basment. His account sounds like expolsives to me. > > I can see there will be a dispute over this, so I will link to the videos i’m seeing. No CT nonsense, just raw video. _ **No** _-the time for slinging shit at the walls to see what you can get away with is over. Please provide a cite for your claim that the NYFD saw that the buildings were wired for demolition. ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/189 "2012-07-19T20:31:10Z")
Here you go [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLt9AYYwliM](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLt9AYYwliM) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/190 "2012-07-19T20:33:52Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > Here you go [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLt9AYYwliM](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLt9AYYwliM) Wrong. Try again. ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/191 "2012-07-19T20:36:01Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > _ **No** _-the time for slinging shit at the walls to see what you can get away with is over. > > Please provide a cite for your claim that the NYFD saw that the buildings were wired for demolition. You are fucking with my words, trying to get an emotional response from people. I NEVER SAID FDNY SAW THE BUILDINGS WERE WIRED FOR DEMOLITION. I said there were reports of explosions like some people said you would hear with a controlled demolition. Don’t you try to twist my words to make it seem like I said FDNY had anything to do with this ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/192 "2012-07-19T20:37:26Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > Don’t you try to twist my words to make it seem like I said FDNY had anything to do with this This is the internet. Your words get recorded: > [@split\_p\_j](#): > > I think I can say for sure the basements were wired in both buildings, just from eyewitness accounts, including NYFD. Try again. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/193 "2012-07-19T20:37:26Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > I think I can say for sure the basements were wired in both buildings, just from eyewitness accounts, including NYFD. > [@split p&j](#): > > I NEVER SAID FDNY SAW THE BUILDINGS WERE WIRED FOR DEMOLITION. We’re done here, right? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/194 "2012-07-19T20:37:42Z")
I don’t have audio, But IIRC this is just a bunch of firefighters saying the word ‘explosion’ or ‘like a bomb’. Have a look at this: [https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/whattheyheard](https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/whattheyheard) I’ll quote a relevant part: > [@](#): > > Following are 16 WTC first responder descriptions of explosive noises well before the towers collapsed: > > “Sounded like bombs” –Keith Murphy > “A huge explosion” –Gerard Gorman > “Sound of popping and exploding” –Alwish Monchery > “Explosions” –William Burns > “Kept hearing these large boom, boom” –Rosario Terranova > “Sounded like explosions.” –Anthony Fitzgerald > “Like a shotgun going off” –Mark Meier > “Sounded like explosions” –Wilfred Barriere > “Sounded like bombs, like blockbusters” –John Murray > “You could hear explosions” –Richard Smiouskas > “Sounded like an M-80, that’s how loud they were” –Tim Pearson > “Sounds like a shotgun” –Eric Ronningen > “Sounded like an explosion” –John Morabito > “There were lots of explosions” –Jeff Birnbaum > “Under the assumption that the sounds were secondary bombs.” –Andrew Rodriguez > “Sounded like bombs. Like a bomb going off. I mean, it was huge.” –FDNY Deputy Chief Peter Hayden > > It would be dishonest of me to represent these accounts as anything but what they are: **descriptions of bodies from the towers hitting the ground.** But members of the 9/11 “truth” movement have no such compunction about misrepresenting dozens of other eyewitness accounts. To date, very, very few members (like maybe one?) of the FDNY think there were bombs in the building. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/195 "2012-07-19T20:37:48Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > We don’t?, I mean other than on 9/11, no building like this has ever totally collasped the way they did on 9/11 Other than on 9/11, no building like this has ever collapsed, period. There has _never_ been any 110-story steel skyscraper to collapse other than the WTC towers. You have absolutely _no_ baseline comparison for this claim. On the issue of “it looked like a controlled demolition…” [This is the controlled demolition of the Aladdin hotel in 1998.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRaNwPGcQcM) [This is the collapse of the WTC towers.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wk9uTjRNdVI) (Mods, feel free to remove this link if posting it is crossing the line.) Please to explain how these two collapses look anything like one another, because I don’t see a single point of comparison other than “There was a building, and then there wasn’t a building.” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/196 "2012-07-19T20:39:57Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > I said there were reports of explosions like some people said you would hear with a controlled demolition. There were also reports of explosions like you would hear in, you know, a building on fire. Either way, sleazy misquoting by truthers does not make the FDNY members agree with you. Feel free to go and ask them if you don’t believe me. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/197 "2012-07-19T20:43:04Z")
> [@Garfield226](#): > > We’re done here, right? We’re at about [this stage](http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/argument_victory.png) of the argument ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/198 "2012-07-19T20:45:14Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > You are fucking with my words, trying to get an emotional response from people. > > I NEVER SAID FDNY SAW THE BUILDINGS WERE WIRED FOR DEMOLITION. > > I said there were reports of explosions like some people said you would hear with a controlled demolition. > > Don’t you try to twist my words to make it seem like I said FDNY had anything to do with this Are you claiming that I deliberately misquoted you? ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/199 "2012-07-19T20:48:47Z")
Ok, I see the game we’re playing here. I said **I** believe the buildings were wired. I believe that because I saw the eyewitness accounts of secondary explosions at ground level and below by people including FDNY. If you all want to twist that into me saying that FDNY saw that the buildings were wired for explosives than so be it. I think that most message board readers can plainly see that is not what I said. ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/200 "2012-07-19T20:53:32Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are you claiming that I deliberately misquoted you? Yes, I am. Nowhere in that quote do I see myself saying that FDNY saw the buildings were wired for explosives. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099.md?page=11)