# 9/11 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 13, 2012, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099 "2012-07-13T12:46:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/221 "2012-07-19T21:44:09Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > The last sentence indicates that based on FDNY witnesses, you concluded the building was wired for explosives. > > Did you use the exact word “see” or “saw” or any variant? No, but that’s mere pedantry. Maybe that wasn’t your intent. But that’s on you, not on everybody else for reading the words you put down, rather than reading your mind. > > Engage in semantics arguments if you want, but you’re not making any sort of case for a controlled demolition in any case. Yes based on FDNY on other eyewitnesses hearing explosions on the ground level and below, and the pictures of the squibs and just the whole way the buildings fell. I think it’s a little more than just semantics. My post was clear in the context it was responding to. I did NOT take my links out of context. They were asked point blank what they saw and heard. The fact that you all don’t like the answer is not my problem, so don’t try to make it sound like I said FDNY saw the actual wires for the explosives. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/222 "2012-07-19T21:51:17Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > the pictures of the squibs There aren’t any. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/223 "2012-07-19T21:53:43Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > Yes based on FDNY on other eyewitnesses hearing explosions on the ground level and below, and the pictures of the squibs and just the whole way the buildings fell. All of which don’t add up to a fraction of evidence for CD. > [@](#): > > I think it’s a little more than just semantics. My post was clear in the context it was responding to. > > I did NOT take my links out of context. They were asked point blank what they saw and heard. What they saw and heard was not surprising for the fire in the building. You have twisted that to your own scenario. Firemen heard loud sounds \<\> Building Wired to go BOOM! ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/224 "2012-07-19T21:55:03Z")
> [@AndrewL](#): > > There were not only reports of explosions in the basements, but people injured by those explosions as well. It is instructive to look at the nature of their injuries. Eyewitnesses to the explosions in the basements report people with blackened clothing and skin, and in some cases with skin burned off or hanging off them. > > Demolition explosives are very high speed, but don’t actually generate much heat. Injuries from being too close to that type of explosion are typically due to shrapnel or barotrauma due to the shock wave. The injuries seen on the people in the basements of the towers are consistent with being exposed to burning liquid or vapors. There is evidence that following the airplane impacts burning jet fuel poured down the elevator shafts, which would be consistent with the injuries and eyewitness reports. > > There are, but it is important to note that these happen after the collapse has already begun. Furthermore, the color of the puffs of dust/smoke don’t seem to resemble the explosions from cutting charges, which as already pointed out are very bright, very fast, very loud, and leave a black smoke cloud. > > We have. Why do you assume that the people who disagree with you have not seen all the evidence? You are not the first 9/11 conspiracy theorist to come by here by a long shot, and you have yet to bring anything that hasn’t been brought up and debunked many times before. Here is one, of several in a line above that, I was responding to. There is your context. My links report secondary explosions _after_ the plane impact, backing up the point I was trying to make. I quote myself, and I stand behind my words. It’s damn clear I never said FDNY saw buildings wired for expolsives or had any thing to do with this 9/11 BS ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/225 "2012-07-19T21:56:21Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Thing is, you aren’t talking like ‘just a non-soldier commenting on war’, you’re talking like a wannabee Green Beret who says he would have solved the war Iraq using ninja powers and moves he learned by playing Modern Warfare 3. I, for one, find it ludicrous that we’re told to believe so many soldiers are “killed in action”, or have to have limbs amputated, when there are plenty of health packs lying around every battlefield that can be used to instantly restore one to peak physical condition. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/226 "2012-07-19T21:57:46Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > Here is one, of several in a line above that, I was responding to. There is your context. > > My links report secondary explosions _after_ the plane impact, backing up the point I was trying to make. > > I quote myself, and I stand behind my words. It’s damn clear I never said FDNY saw buildings wired for expolsives or had any thing to do with this 9/11 BS I believe that you meant that you’d drawn your own conclusion that the building was wired after hearing the FDNY account that you posted, even though the FDNY account doesn’t say the building was wired. But I also think the way you initially worded your statement was confusing, not “damn clear”. You knew what you meant, but everyone else didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/227 "2012-07-19T21:58:34Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > the pictures of the squibs [Squibs aren’t used in demolitions](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squib_(explosive)). Squibs are used in Hollywood movies to produce _simulated_ demolitions. The presence of “squibs” in the WTC would be more likely to indicate that the buildings had been secretly infiltrated by Michael Bay than by the Illuminati. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/228 "2012-07-19T21:59:11Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > Yes based on FDNY on other eyewitnesses hearing explosions on the ground level and below, and the pictures of the squibs and just the whole way the buildings fell. You like photos? There are photos of the cores of both towers standing after the outer walls fell. What sort of deliberate demolition does that? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/229 "2012-07-19T22:02:07Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > My links report secondary explosions _after_ the plane impact, backing up the point I was trying to make. “Explosions” \<\> explosive charges. Got any idea what sound a body makes when hitting pavement after falling ~100 floors? Or, in the case of 7, what a BLEVE is? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/230 "2012-07-19T22:07:59Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > It’s damn clear I never said FDNY saw buildings wired for expolsives or had any thing to do with this 9/11 BS It’s obviously not “damn clear”, otherwise this point wouldn’t be debated for so long. Again, it’s on YOU to make your points clear. The available evidence says that your point was not actually clear and still isn’t clear to some of us. From what I can gather, you are trying to build a case for a controlled demolition, based, in part, on eyewitness testimony. Correct, so far? > [@split\_p\_j](#): > > Here is one, of several in a line above that, I was responding to. There is your context. Well, I’m glad you’re no longer claiming other posters “misquoted” you. It’s disheartening, however, that you’ve fallen back to “out of context”. That’s a weaselly argument when you are the one being unclear. ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/231 "2012-07-19T22:08:27Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Thing is, you aren’t talking like ‘just a non-soldier commenting on war’, you’re talking like a wannabee Green Beret who says he would have solved the war Iraq using ninja powers and moves he learned by playing Modern Warfare 3. That is not what I’m saying. We have all seen that one of the few ways you bring a steel framed building down is with explosives or by taking it apart. Earthquakes and all the other things listed can do it too, but _not in the way we saw on 9/11_. I personally don’t have to be an engineer to understand this. Just like I don’t personally have to know how to grow corn to feed myself. By your logic, the Empire State building should have collasped when it was hit by a B-25. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/232 "2012-07-19T22:13:40Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > We have all seen that one of the few ways you bring a steel framed building down is with explosives or by taking it apart. Or with burning foam-filled furniture, and the Towers had 110 floors of foam-filled furniture. ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/233 "2012-07-19T22:25:13Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > It’s obviously not “damn clear”, otherwise this point wouldn’t be debated for so long. > > Again, it’s on YOU to make your points clear. The available evidence says that your point was not actually clear and still isn’t clear to some of us. > > From what I can gather, you are trying to build a case for a controlled demolition, based, in part, on eyewitness testimony. > > Correct, so far? > > Well, I’m glad you’re no longer claiming other posters “misquoted” you. It’s disheartening, however, that you’ve fallen back to “out of context”. That’s a weaselly argument when you are the one being unclear. I’m not understanding the problem here. My dispute is that I’m being quoted as saying FDNY saw that the buildings were wired for expolsives. To me, that is a clear misquote as well as a post taken way out of context. I’m not trying to build a case, I believe, point blank, that the buildings were wired for expolsives. I base _my_ belief on the eyewitness accounts that _include_ FDNY, and I provided those links. My words have, in fact been twisted, and now the thread seems to only be about that. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/234 "2012-07-19T22:26:23Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > Easy answer to that. The planes were mis-direction. Anything that happened after the planes hit didn’t really matter. Easy and dishonest, not to mention disgusting, answer. Actually, it’s not an answer. An answer to how a crime happens is based on scientific evidence. Asserting the planes were misdirection is simply wishful thinking to excuse the incredible lack of understanding that you, along with every single other WONJCT, lack of science, evidence, and even plain courtesy. That last is in there because your touting baseless “arguments” is an insult to the memory of those who were killed in those attacks. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/235 "2012-07-19T22:28:11Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > You can dismiss them, attack them and yes misquote me but they still stand. They still stand, just not as evidence of your claims. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/236 "2012-07-19T22:33:04Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > I think I can say for sure the basements were wired in both buildings, just from eyewitness accounts, including NYFD. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Please provide a cite for your claim that the NYFD saw that the buildings were wired for demolition. > [@split\_p\_j](#): > > I NEVER SAID FDNY SAW THE BUILDINGS WERE WIRED FOR DEMOLITION. > > I said there were reports of explosions like some people said you would hear with a controlled demolition. > > Don’t you try to twist my words to make it seem like I said FDNY had anything to do with this You may have meant something different, but Czarcasm’s challenge to your statment that I have quoted does not appear to twist your words in any way. Feel free to restate your view in a way that is more clear, but recognize that what you actually posted says pretty much what Czarcasm understood it to mean. ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/237 "2012-07-19T22:44:34Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Or with burning foam-filled furniture, and the Towers had 110 floors of foam-filled furniture. I’m sorry, what steel framed building like WTC 1,2 &7 ever _totally collasped_ due to foam-filled furniture, prior to 9/11. Even more to the point, why was the crime scene cleaned up so fast? I know you’re going to say “the nation need to move on and heal the damage” or some nonsense like that. Fine, they had to clean up NYC, but they could of stored the debris elsewhere.. They did you say. Yeah some of it, they did. Almost allof it was quickly hauled off, some melted down, some in ships in BS monuments. I think one is going up near my hometown. Why was there no one saying, hold on lets study all of this. All of our great buildings can be in danger. Let’s really understand why they collasped. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/238 "2012-07-19T22:46:51Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > Let’s really understand why they collasped. Could you please fix this? ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/239 "2012-07-19T22:56:38Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > Why was there no one saying, hold on lets study all of this. All of our great buildings can be in danger. Let’s really understand why they collasped. If only a group of scientists, perhaps banding together in some kind of national institute of standards and technology, had collected an amount of material they deemed sufficient for study and stored it in Maryland. [Oh, they did](http://www.nist.gov/el/disasterstudies/wtc/wtc_recovered_steel.cfm). ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/240 "2012-07-19T23:00:41Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > I’m sorry, what steel framed building like WTC 1,2 &7 ever _totally collasped_ due to foam-filled furniture, prior to 9/11. Just pointing out that is it possible, as you previously noted and apparently forgot. > [@](#): > > Even more to the point, why was the crime scene cleaned up so fast? I’m sorry, nearly six months is “fast”? > [@](#): > > Fine, they had to clean up NYC, but they could of stored the debris elsewhere.. > > They did you say. Yeah some of it, they did. Yeah, approximately two million tons, which was sorted through. > [@](#): > > Almost allof it was quickly hauled off, some melted down, some in ships in BS monuments. I think one is going up near my hometown. You are aware that there are monuments which contain debris as was found in situ? > [@](#): > > Why was there no one saying, hold on lets study all of this. All of our great buildings can be in danger. Let’s really understand why they collasped. Finding out how to prevent the same thing from happening again was the point of the Commission. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099.md?page=13)