# 9/11 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 13, 2012, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099 "2012-07-13T12:46:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/301 "2012-07-20T01:59:01Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I thought he was calling it “your 9/11 religion.” 😕 I was going back to post 268: > [@split\_p\_j](#): > > I can look at the evidence sorrounding 9/11 and see at least some of it is a lie, therefore the whole offical story is a lie. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/302 "2012-07-20T01:59:44Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > Of course I think explosives were palced in the bottoms of the buildings, I believe that the buildings were rigged top to floor,and I think the links I posted explain why. Wait, what? “rigged top to floor”??? How the heck was this accomplished without anyone knowing? Where did it all go after the collapse? It vanished into thin air? > [@split\_p\_j](#): > > The point, as I see it, was not to have textbook contolled demolition, so it really did not matter where the planes hit, as long as they hit. If the planes don’t hit, thats when you have the problem.If the planes hit here, detonate the explosives from here down. If the plane hits there, same thing. All baseses are covered. A building demolition is not accomplished by having explosives just go off willy-nilly in a building. Or are you thinking that “they” had a whole series of potential floors rigged, and then simply pressed button 56, rather than button 55, or 15, or 62? Again, how the heck was this put in place with nobody in the whole building suspecting a thing? This defies common sense. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/303 "2012-07-20T02:01:48Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > Good questions, and like I said I don’t really have an answer to all that. From what it looks like to me, part of the one tower was going to come down, but not a total collaspe. As I said upthread, the cores remained standing after the outer walls fell. Therefore there was no total collapse. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/304 "2012-07-20T02:02:27Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > Then you really are a simpleton idiot, and quite obviously a troll. You’re not allowed to insult other posters in this forum and you can’t accuse them of trolling. Don’t do it again. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/305 "2012-07-20T02:02:39Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > Good questions, and like I said I don’t really have an answer to all that. From what it looks like to me, part of the one tower was going to come down, but not a total collaspe. I have some very simple questions for _you_: It seems as if you’ve thought about this situation for years-Is this the first time you’ve asked any of these questions online? If not, is this the first time you have received any of the answers we’ve given you? ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/306 "2012-07-20T02:03:20Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > The collapse of both towers, AND WTC7 clearly and unquestionably correspond to the lack of structural strength of their supporting structures. > > Again, their structures failed. > > They collapsed due to that failure. > > That failure was brought on by the weakening of structural steel by intense fires. > > They did not melt. > > They were not brought down by explosives. :rolleyes: > > They were brought down because the structural strength of their supporting structure was compromised by heat. > > Structural steel and intense heat do not do well together. > > And again, I really don’t believe that you care about facts. You have a CT that you want to advocate to all you can. So you believe it was all due to fire. I don’t think anyone here, even the ones who disagree with me think that. Again with the intense heat. It was, regardless of what you think, a regular fire. There is nothing special about kerosene. The fires I linked to in my OP burned just as hot, and for as long as and much longer than the WTC fires. NONE of them totally collasped. Fire is just not good enough. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/307 "2012-07-20T02:05:54Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > NONE of them totally collasped. Please fix this. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/308 "2012-07-20T02:06:50Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > So you believe it was all due to fire. I don’t think anyone here, even the ones who disagree with me think that. Nice strawman. > [@](#): > > Again with the intense heat. It was, regardless of what you think, a regular fire. There is nothing special about kerosene. The fires I linked to in my OP burned just as hot, and for as long as and much longer than the WTC fires. > > NONE of them totally collasped. Fire is just not good enough. None of them were hit by objects traveling at some 500 MPH nor portions of another building, either. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/309 "2012-07-20T02:08:01Z")
[QUOTE=split p&j] Of course I think explosives were palced in the bottoms of the buildings, I believe that the buildings were rigged top to floor,and I think the links I posted explain why. [/QUOTE] They wired every part of the building with explosives (let’s just leave the reality of what that would actually entail aside for now), so that anywhere the plane hit they could start the demolition from that location…is that your theory? Leaving aside how this would be impossible for a variety of reasons, where is the evidence that ANY explosives were used? I mean, I’m assuming these weren’t magical explosives, and needed stuff like detonators, fuses and, you know, explosives of some kind. Where is there evidence that ANY of this exists outside of the heads of Truthers? Can you show me one piece of det-cord, one explosives wire cage, one piece of shaped charge copper…one anything? Because, when people destroy buildings in the real world using explosives they leave all of that and more behind. Where is your evidence that any of this exists? > [@](#): > > The point, as I see it, was not to have textbook contolled demolition, so it really did not matter where the planes hit, as long as they hit. If the planes don’t hit, thats when you have the problem.If the planes hit here, detonate the explosives from here down. If the plane hits there, same thing. All baseses are covered. Sure. It could have been magical anti-matter bombs fired by rabid space bats too. There is exactly the same evidence in both cases…which is to say that there is none at all. Again, leaving aside how impossible it would be to wire the entire building for explosives, and how unlikely that any of your explosives and detonator system would survive such a crash and be usable, miraculously, right at the impact site, where is your EVIDENCE that there was ANY explosives or detonators in the buildings? I mean, if they were wired from ground to roof there should be something, if we are talking reality and all. So, where is it? > [@](#): > > As I stated before, if some expolsives went off when the planes hit, how does that hurt when you’ve got most all the structural supports rigged to blow. Large sections of the WTC buildings were off limits due to construction in the weeks leading up to 9/11. It wouldn’t have been as hard as you make it out to be. No, large sections of the WTC weren’t off limits. No, it would take more than a couple of stealth ninjas with access to the building to wire it for demolition. You are claiming that the entire building was wired, yet you provide zero evidence that this was the case, aside from your erroneous assertion that ‘Large sections of the WTC buildings were off limits due to construction in the weeks leading up to 9/11’. It takes (in the real world) months to wire smaller buildings for demolition, and they aren’t trying to fake it plus have the complexity of having to have the fake demolition propagate from where ever the plane hit. And, of course, there would be some evidence that they did…which, sadly, you’ve failed to produce thus far. > [@](#): > > I really don’t find this any harder to believe than the offical story. Well, except there is literally a mountain of evidence backing up the ‘offical story’ while on your side…well, you’ve got nuffin, to be honest, except some wild speculation that doesn’t even make any sort of logically sense even internally to the insane CT. Like I said, there is exactly the same amount of evidence that Thor used his mighty hammer mem-mem to bring down the buildings after they failed to collapse when he threw planes at them as your theory. I’d rate the Thor/mem-mem theory as slightly more probable, in fact. -XT ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/310 "2012-07-20T02:11:20Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You’re not allowed to insult other posters in this forum and you can’t accuse them of trolling. Don’t do it again. You have an obvious troll here. The poster (troll) has no interest in knowledge. The poster (troll) has an agenda, which is to bring their idiotic ideas and “facts” to all the misinformed, thus perpetuating the misinformation. The guy is a troll, and I think it’s pretty sad that the SDMB is letting this troll get bandwidth. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/311 "2012-07-20T02:12:10Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > You have an obvious troll here. > > The poster (troll) has no interest in knowledge. > > The poster (troll) has an agenda, which is to bring their idiotic ideas and “facts” to all the misinformed, thus perpetuating the misinformation. > > The guy is a troll, and I think it’s pretty sad that the SDMB is letting this troll get bandwidth. Hey, take it to the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/312 "2012-07-20T02:17:14Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Hey, take it to the Pit. Do you enjoy this rehash of a rehash of a rehash? It is just sad. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/313 "2012-07-20T02:18:25Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > You have an obvious troll here. You’re welcome to your opinion, but the rules still apply. I’m giving you a warning this time: stop now, and don’t call people trolls unless you are in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/314 "2012-07-20T02:18:57Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You’re welcome to your opinion, but the rules still apply. I’m giving you a warning this time: stop now, and don’t call people trolls unless you are in the Pit. Understood. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/315 "2012-07-20T02:19:10Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > So you believe it was all due to fire. That is _not_ what he said > [@](#): > > I don’t think anyone here, even the ones who disagree with me think that. > > Again with the intense heat. It was, regardless of what you think, a regular fire. There is nothing special about kerosene. The fires I linked to in my OP burned just as hot, and for as long as and much longer than the WTC fires. > > NONE of them totally collasped. Fire is just not good enough. a) The buildings you show did not have planes slamming into them, causing damage to the structure and fireproofing. b) The buildings you showed had firefighting efforts on them, that makes a huge difference. c) It was not a regular fire. Regular fires start in one place and move to where there is more flammable material. The kerosene from the planes started fire all over the floors of impact. d) Fire on unprotected steel is plenty enough. Look up Sherman’s bowties (or neckties, whatever the fashion stated) and realize that was done with campfires. ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/316 "2012-07-20T02:32:34Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I have some very simple questions for _you_: It seems as if you’ve thought about this situation for years-Is this the first time you’ve asked any of these questions online? If not, is this the first time you have received any of the answers we’ve given you? I’ll give you a little background. I was 29 on 9/11, about to turn 30 in a few months from then. At first, I believed everything I was told. Really, I was just like you guys, ready to attack any one who thought different. Right from the first day though, I knew people who were asking questions. Just simple little questions that anybody would ask. Like, we spend all this money on miltary to protect us. Where were they that day? Oh yea, um, they scambled all the jets out into the middle of nowhere that day. Oh, and ATC didin’t know what the fuck was going on because there were hijacking drills going on that day. They had no clue that the drill went live. Some say all this, this most basic of things was incompatance. If that’s the case, why was no fired? After some of these seeds were palnted, I started doing my on research. The things I found were ugly, and just lead to more questions. Here I am today, 40 years old. Yes, I’ve been lurking on SDMB for years, trying to stay out of the 9/11 treads that pop up from time to time. The offical 9/11 story, to me, is just straight bullshit. I don’t know what happenend on that day, and now it really does not matter. We are all stuck in the aftermath, and the blood is on all of our hands. All I can do now is ask my questions, the same that were asked of me 11 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/317 "2012-07-20T02:36:28Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > So you believe it was all due to fire. I don’t think anyone here, even the ones who disagree with me think that. > > Again with the intense heat. It was, regardless of what you think, a regular fire. There is nothing special about kerosene. The fires I linked to in my OP burned just as hot, and for as long as and much longer than the WTC fires. > > NONE of them totally collasped. Fire is just not good enough. You have an agenda that does not allow you to accept new information that would challenge that agenda. Therefor, any debate with you is a waste of time. Which really is sad, because I consider myself a very good instructor, and I’d love the chance to educate you on all the science and physics behind the collapse of the towers. However, I know in my gut that you will never abandon your agenda and you will never allow yourself to become educated in the sciences to a degree that will make you realize that that agenda is completely absurd. Maybe I’m wrong about you, though I can’t really see anything from your posts so far to suggest that I am. Education, an open mind and knowledge are the greatest things on earth. You’re wasting your time here by so quickly dismissing every poster who refutes your agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/318 "2012-07-20T02:37:26Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > All I can do now is ask my questions, the same that were asked of me 11 years ago. You’re going to get the same answers today you did then. And in another decade you’ll get the same ones. And so on. Until you die. So you can either realize that you’re wasting your life by “just asking questions” that have already been answered as satisfactorily as they’re going to be or you can go to your grave a bitter person who feels he’s been lied to — and your life will have been a giant waste of time. Your call. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/319 "2012-07-20T02:38:05Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > At first, I believed everything I was told. You realize this is very condescending, right? It’s not the magnanimous admission you might like it to be. > [@](#): > > Right from the first day though, I knew people who were asking questions. Just simple little questions that anybody would ask. None of these questions have anything to do with the collapse of the World Trade Center. The existing evidence (and for that matter common sense) makes it pretty obvious the buildings fell because the planes hit them and they caught on fire. I’m not sure the military could have done anything about the attacks in any event. By the time people realized the planes had been hijacked it was probably too late. On the other hand the CIA and the FBI blew it in a tremendous way. ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099/320 "2012-07-20T02:39:07Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > I’ll give you a little background. I was 29 on 9/11, about to turn 30 in a few months from then. > > At first, I believed everything I was told. Really, I was just like you guys, ready to attack any one who thought different. > > Right from the first day though, I knew people who were asking questions. Just simple little questions that anybody would ask. > > Like, we spend all this money on miltary to protect us. Where were they that day? Oh yea, um, they scambled all the jets out into the middle of nowhere that day. > > Oh, and ATC didin’t know what the fuck was going on because there were hijacking drills going on that day. They had no clue that the drill went live. Some say all this, this most basic of things was incompatance. If that’s the case, why was no fired? > > After some of these seeds were palnted, I started doing my on research. The things I found were ugly, and just lead to more questions. > > Here I am today, 40 years old. Yes, I’ve been lurking on SDMB for years, trying to stay out of the 9/11 treads that pop up from time to time. > > The offical 9/11 story, to me, is just straight bullshit. I don’t know what happenend on that day, and now it really does not matter. We are all stuck in the aftermath, and the blood is on all of our hands. > > All I can do now is ask my questions, the same that were asked of me 11 years ago. That is fine, but science doesn’t lie. There is irrefutable science behind what happened. You can blame the human elements, and refute them and question them, but the science aspects are true, and always will be. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-11/628099.md?page=17)