# 9% support Israel, while 44% support the palestinians **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 5, 2002, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-support-israel-while-44-support-the-palestinians/102031 "2002-04-05T17:36:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![POWER\_station](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@POWER\_station](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/POWER_station)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-support-israel-while-44-support-the-palestinians/102031/1 "2002-04-05T17:36:11Z")
This is from a recent poll made in Norway: 9% have most sympathy for Israel 44% have most sympathy for the Palestinians 9% was unsure or not interested 38% feelt that both parts was equally wrong A similar poll made last summer also showed that only 9% of the population had most sympathy for Israel, while 19% had most sypmathy for the palestinians. The palestinians have increased their support since that time. I don’t know how representative this poll are for other countries in Europe, but the opinion among Europeans are a lot closer to this poll than the opinion in USA. There is also been serious talks about boycotting Israeli goods, and marking goods from Israel with a david star have already been introduced by many stores. Europe and USA seams to live is two different worlds in the Middle-East question. I mean than US media are too biased when it comes to the Middle-East What do you think ? ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-support-israel-while-44-support-the-palestinians/102031/2 "2002-04-05T17:45:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by POWER\_station \* > Europe and USA seams to live is two different worlds in the Middle-East question. > I mean than US media are too biased when it comes to the Middle-East > What do you think ? I think your OP is premised on the theory that European attitudes are correct, and American attitudes are incorrect. You need to support that premise. Sua ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-support-israel-while-44-support-the-palestinians/102031/3 "2002-04-05T17:45:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by POWER\_station \* > \*\*There is also been serious talks about boycotting Israeli goods, and marking goods from Israel with a david star have already been introduced by many stores. > \*\* Oooh. Classy. Perhaps the items so marked can have yellow Stars of David painted on them. :rolleyes: And gosh! Maybe any Israeli nationals that happen to be living there can ALSO be marked with Stars of David. :rolleyes: (Not directed at **POWER\_station** , necessarily, but at the plan he’s mentioned) Fenris ---
**Author:** ![sdimbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sdimbert/32/20204_2.png) [@sdimbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sdimbert)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-support-israel-while-44-support-the-palestinians/102031/4 "2002-04-05T17:49:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by POWER\_station \* > \*\*This is from a recent poll made in Norway: > > 9% have most sympathy for Israel > 44% have most sympathy for the Palestinians > 9% was unsure or not interested > 38% feelt that both parts was equally wrong \*\* As a professional opinon researcher, I have a driving _need_ to see that survey instrument. I would also love to know what percentage of respondents feel that they are “well-educated” in the history of the Mid-East. Ditto on **Fenris** ’ remarks regarding stars on Israeli products. That sort of thing is illegal in the states… is it not in Norway? ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-support-israel-while-44-support-the-palestinians/102031/5 "2002-04-05T18:04:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by POWER\_station \*Europe and USA seams to live is two different worlds in the Middle-East question. > I mean than US media are too biased when it comes to the Middle-East > What do you think ? \*\* I agree that the US and Europe have remarkably different perceptions. E.g., here’s an article [\*\* Nobel panel regrets peace prize for Shimon Peres\*\*](http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Articleshow.asp?art_id=5962723) The Nobel panel have no comment on the bombing of Israeli citizens. They seem not to have contemplated that Arafat, whose brigades murdered many civilians, might not be such a great poster boy for a Peace Prize. OTOH the American [http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/](http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/) mocks Arafat’s Nobel Peace Prize on a daily basis. I suspect that the European POV is influenced by their media, who may be under-reporting Palestinian and Arab wrong-doing. You can get lots of info from [http://www.honestreporting.com/a/friend.asp](http://www.honestreporting.com/a/friend.asp) If you are European, **POWER\_station** , here are some questions to test how news is being reported to you: [list=1] [li]Are you aware that Arafat’s headquarters were found to have a large abount of counterfeit Israeli money and also equipment for counterfeiting American money?[/li][li]Are you aware that at least on Red Crescent ambulance was found to be transporting explosives?[/li][li]Does your media point out that Arafat agreed to protect Israel in Oslo, but that he done the opposite?[/li][li]Are you aware that Israel is being bombed regularly from the North?[/li][li]Are you aware that a Palestinian gunman shot and killed a UN observer a week or so ago?[/li][li]How many of the murdered Israeli civilians have been featured on TV or in newspapers and magazines, so one could sympathize and identify with them?[/li][/list=1] ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-support-israel-while-44-support-the-palestinians/102031/6 "2002-04-05T18:08:27Z")
\>\> I mean than US media are too biased when it comes to the Middle-East Oh? How do we know it is not the European media which is biased? ---
**Author:** ![Bomkia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5e925/32.png) [@Bomkia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bomkia)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-support-israel-while-44-support-the-palestinians/102031/7 "2002-04-05T18:13:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Ditto on Fenris’ remarks regarding stars on Israeli products. That sort of thing is illegal in the states… is it not in Norway? Do you have any links that show the laws regarding the star of David on goods being illegal in US? And as an answer about the legality of this in Norway, no, afaik it is not illegal in Norway. I would belive the norwegians are using it simply as a way to show people what goods are from Isreal so they can more easily “show their feelings”. ---
**Author:** ![POWER\_station](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@POWER\_station](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/POWER_station)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-support-israel-while-44-support-the-palestinians/102031/8 "2002-04-05T18:19:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*I agree that the US and Europe have remarkably different perceptions. E.g., here’s an article [\*\* Nobel panel regrets peace prize for Shimon Peres\*\*](http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Articleshow.asp?art_id=5962723) The Nobel panel have no comment on the bombing of Israeli citizens. They seem not to have contemplated that Arafat, whose brigades murdered many civilians, might not be such a great poster boy for a Peace Prize. > > OTOH the American [http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/](http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/) mocks Arafat’s Nobel Peace Prize on a daily basis. > > I suspect that the European POV is influenced by their media, who may be under-reporting Palestinian and Arab wrong-doing. You can get lots of info from [http://www.honestreporting.com/a/friend.asp](http://www.honestreporting.com/a/friend.asp) > > If you are European, **POWER\_station** , here are some questions to test how news is being reported to you: > > [list=1] > [li]Are you aware that Arafat’s headquarters were found to have a large abount of counterfeit Israeli money and also equipment for counterfeiting American money?[/li][li]Are you aware that at least on Red Crescent ambulance was found to be transporting explosives?[/li][li]Does your media point out that Arafat agreed to protect Israel in Oslo, but that he done the opposite?[/li][li]Are you aware that Israel is being bombed regularly from the North?[/li][li]Are you aware that a Palestinian gunman shot and killed a UN observer a week or so ago?[/li][li]How many of the murdered Israeli civilians have been featured on TV or in newspapers and magazines, so one could sympathize and identify with them?[/li][/list=1] \*\* 1. Israel couldn’t provide a single evidence of that accusation. Red Cross asked them to provide evidence, but they could not. I could list up many incidents against Israel as you do here against the palestinians if I wanted to. ---
**Author:** ![sdimbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sdimbert/32/20204_2.png) [@sdimbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sdimbert)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-support-israel-while-44-support-the-palestinians/102031/9 "2002-04-05T18:31:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bomkia \* > \*\* > Do you have any links that show the laws regarding the star of David on goods being illegal in US? \*\* No - not what I meant at all. What I meant is that it is illegal (AFAIK), here in the US, for retailers or distributors to place labels on packages to tell consumers things like place of origin. The OP made it sound like store-owners in Norway were placing Stars of David on packages to tell consumers which products to boycott. It would be like animal-rights activists sticking pictures of dead bunny rabits on deodorant packages. And, as far as > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by POWER\_station_ > \*\* > 2. Israel couldn’t provide a single evidence of that accusation [of explosives being transported in a Red Crescent Ambulance].\*\* A quick [Google Search](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=explosive+in+ambulance&spell=1) turned up [this article](http://www.adl.org/israel/israel_explosives.asp) at the ADL website and [this one](http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH0ldz0) at the MFA’s website. ---
**Author:** ![POWER\_station](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@POWER\_station](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/POWER_station)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-support-israel-while-44-support-the-palestinians/102031/10 "2002-04-05T18:36:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bomkia \* > \*\* > Do you have any links that show the laws regarding the star of David on goods being illegal in US? > > And as an answer about the legality of this in Norway, no, afaik it is not illegal in Norway. I would belive the norwegians are using it simply as a way to show people what goods are from Isreal so they can more easily “show their feelings”. \*\* It was effected so the customers them selves could boycott the goods if they wanted to. The David star is a symbol that is used in Israels flag. It’s not so strange that they use this, is it ? Besides, they also mark goods from Morocco The EU is also talking about a boycott og Israeli goods ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-support-israel-while-44-support-the-palestinians/102031/11 "2002-04-05T18:39:16Z")
\>\> What I meant is that it is illegal (AFAIK), here in the US, for retailers or distributors to place labels on packages to tell consumers things like place of origin. You cannot be serious. Very much to the contrary, it is _required_. Or have you never read the words “Made in China”? ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-support-israel-while-44-support-the-palestinians/102031/12 "2002-04-05T18:40:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by POWER\_station \* > \*\* > The EU is also talking about a boycott og Israeli goods \*\* OG SMASH!! [sub](sorry, I couldn’t resist)[/sub] Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-support-israel-while-44-support-the-palestinians/102031/13 "2002-04-05T18:45:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by POWER\_station \* > \*\*2. Israel couldn’t provide a single evidence of that accusation. Red Cross asked them to provide evidence, but they could not. > > I could list up many incidents against Israel as you do here against the palestinians if I wanted to. \*\* Apparently I was unclear. I’m trying to ascertain whether US and Euopean media cover this conflict in different ways. After all, most of us don’t go to Israel. Our opinion must be based on on the types of news coverage. You have confirmed one difference. The US media reported #2 a a fact. The media you read, \*\* POWER\_station\*\*, discussed the incident, but said Israel could not provide evidence. OTOH here’s an [article from Reuters](http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/415907)that also discusses the incident as an established fact, although it says an investigation is yet to be conducted. Here’s [another article, with comprehensive details](http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=146300&contrassID=1&subContrassID=0&sbSubContrassID=0). The detailed nature of the information here casts some doubt the version presented to you, that Israel couldn’t provide evidence of the accusation. Can you please share with us your source for your statement and link it if possible? It could be illuminating to compare nature of the coverage. I would appreciate any other insight you’d like to share on how your news coverage may differ from ours. ---
**Author:** ![nswgru1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c4cdca/32.png) [@nswgru1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nswgru1)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-support-israel-while-44-support-the-palestinians/102031/14 "2002-04-05T18:47:49Z")
Quote: 1. Israel couldn’t provide a single evidence of that accusation. Red Cross asked them to provide evidence, but they could not. **CITE PLEASE:** Lets get this media biased accusation cleared up here and now. ---
**Author:** ![POWER\_station](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@POWER\_station](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/POWER_station)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-support-israel-while-44-support-the-palestinians/102031/15 "2002-04-05T18:51:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*Apparently I was unclear. I’m trying to ascertain whether US and Euopean media cover this conflict in different ways. After all, most of us don’t go to Israel. Our opinion must be based on on the types of news coverage. > > You have confirmed one difference. The US media reported #2 a a fact. The media you read, \*\* POWER\_station\*\*, discussed the incident, but said Israel could not provide evidence. > > OTOH here’s an [article from Reuters](http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/415907)that also discusses the incident as an established fact, although it says an investigation is yet to be conducted. > > Here’s [another article, with comprehensive details](http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=146300&contrassID=1&subContrassID=0&sbSubContrassID=0). The detailed nature of the information here casts some doubt the version presented to you, that Israel couldn’t provide evidence of the accusation. > > Can you please share with us your source for your statement and link it if possible? It could be illuminating to compare nature of the coverage. > > I would appreciate any other insight you’d like to share on how your news coverage may differ from ours. \*\* The leader of the Norwegian red cross in Palestine asked Israel several times to provide proof of this. Israel claimed they had seen this on a satellite. They didn’t gave him anything. ---
**Author:** ![barton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@barton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barton)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-support-israel-while-44-support-the-palestinians/102031/16 "2002-04-05T18:51:58Z")
[http://www.zogby.com/](http://www.zogby.com/) is a good place to get numbers on American support of the two sides - new poll numbers up today. As stated, the Israelis support here is much stronger, but there seems to be a good percentage (72%) in support of a Palestinian state. ---
**Author:** ![sdimbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sdimbert/32/20204_2.png) [@sdimbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sdimbert)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-support-israel-while-44-support-the-palestinians/102031/17 "2002-04-05T18:53:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > \*\*\>\> What I meant is that it is illegal (AFAIK), here in the US, for retailers or distributors to place labels on packages to tell consumers things like place of origin. > > You cannot be serious. Very much to the contrary, it is _required_. Or have you never read the words “Made in China”? \*\* Sorry - again, I was not specific enough. You’re right, of course. It is required for certain products to be labelled in the manner you describe. What is, AFAIK, illegal is for retailers or distributors to decide, on their own, to place labels on packages on their shelves. For example, imgaine that I manufactured widgets and **sailor** did not like me. If he owned a store which sold widgets, he would be free to not carry my brand. But, he would not be free to stock my brand and place a label on every one that said, “ **sdimbert** is a wiener.” At least, that’s what I think the law says. Similarly, while citizens of Norway may want to boycott Israeli goods, I’d imagine it illegal for Norwegian shopkeepers to “helpfully” identify the Israeli products in their stores. Again, I may be wrong… if so, please correct me. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-support-israel-while-44-support-the-palestinians/102031/18 "2002-04-05T18:57:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by POWER\_station \* > \*\*The leader of the Norwegian red cross in Palestine asked Israel several times to provide proof of this. Israel claimed they had seen this on a satellite. They didn’t gave him anything. \*\* Whether this statement is correct or not, it is different from what we’re seeing here in the States. Can you tell us the source from which you learned this information? If it’s on the internet, can you provide a link to the source? That’s the usual practice on this Great Debates message board. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-support-israel-while-44-support-the-palestinians/102031/19 "2002-04-05T19:04:30Z")
Since “Made in Israel” is required by Federal Law the whole issue is moot. At any rate, of course a merchant can legally put a large sign saying “Made in Israel”. You have never seen such things? What I don’t understand is why a merchant would put a sign saying “Don’t buy this” rather than just not carry the product. What is possible is that the manufacturer or distributor may limit contractually what you can do. Thay can require the merchant to expose the product in a certain manner etc. But nothing required by law. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-support-israel-while-44-support-the-palestinians/102031/20 "2002-04-05T19:07:04Z")
> [@](#): > > The leader of the Norwegian red cross in Palestine asked Israel several times to provide proof of this. Israel claimed they had seen this on a satellite. They didn’t gave him anything. So _you_ have said (in various ways) on several occasions. We are now asking that you provide a link to a web site in which this claim was made. Several people have provided evidence _against_ your claim. Do you have any _evidence_ that their information is wrong? If you do not, it would appear that you are simply repeating what you wish to _believe_ and that you are the one judging Israel without having any actual _facts_. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-support-israel-while-44-support-the-palestinians/102031.md?page=2)