# 9 year old girl accidentally kills gun range instructor with Uzi. (RO) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 27, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-year-old-girl-accidentally-kills-gun-range-instructor-with-uzi-ro/696660 "2014-08-27T18:12:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-year-old-girl-accidentally-kills-gun-range-instructor-with-uzi-ro/696660/101 "2014-08-29T20:26:56Z")
> [@Kimballkid](#): > > Sounds like a place where you go out a shoot your own cow and they butcher it and cook it for you. Reminds me of that old SNL skit with Dan Aykroyd. " YOU stun it, YOU kill it, YOU skin it !!! " ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-year-old-girl-accidentally-kills-gun-range-instructor-with-uzi-ro/696660/102 "2014-08-29T20:47:29Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > They said nothing like that. It wasn’t a polite inquiry. The Tec-9 was famous for being easily convertible into a fully automatic pistol. I didn’t know whether that sort of circumvention of the law was permitted in Finland. I also didn’t know whether easily concealable weapons like handguns were permitted. > > And note that neither poster was interested in my cross-country comparison, which was the point of my post. They just glommed on to a tangent. It was basically that. Don’t you knew how to spel Teck-9 har har? I wasn’t here 12 years ago so I can’t really comment on the sort of shitstorms that nomenclature brought up but you are referring to two posters that I have NEVER seen before that posted these things 12 years ago. Heck 50 years ago Republicans were the good guys. A decade is a long time in internet years. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-year-old-girl-accidentally-kills-gun-range-instructor-with-uzi-ro/696660/103 "2014-08-29T20:50:45Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Yes, indeed. People who can’t tell handguns from shotguns from assault rifles from SMGs from machineguns have no business sitting around saying what a fucking stupid idea it is to let a 9-year-old play with an automatic weapon. I don’t think anyone is saying that. The nomenclature argument arose when people wanted to ban assault weapons. And these people who wanted to ban assault weapons thought assault weapons were machine guns, in fact they had no clue what an assault weapon was. Its like wanting to ban Plan B because you think it induces an abortion but you would be OK with birth control pills. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-year-old-girl-accidentally-kills-gun-range-instructor-with-uzi-ro/696660/104 "2014-08-29T23:59:37Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > I’m not sure what it actually is. Like the instructor, it blows my mind that you can just hand a 9 year old, or 8 year old, a loaded fully automatic Uzi. And tell them to fire it on auto. > > Maybe this happens all the time, and most 8 year old kids adjust to the gun instantly, and this sort of batspit insane behavior is unusual. I grew up spending time on gun ranges (late 1970s, early '80s), and I never saw any of this kind of shit happen. I saw people who understood how to safely handle firearms. My dad was (and still is) a raving gun nut, but gun _safety_ was always a huge part of his love of shooting. [Caveat: he grew up with guns, was a US Marine, and then a police officer]. Gun nut that he is, my dad would _never_ support the idea of a 9-year-old girl firing an Uzi on full-auto (or, frankly, firing an Uzi at all). Hell, he didn’t even let me shoot a shotgun until I was 12. And even as a 12-year-old boy, firing from a kneeling position, the recoil from that first shot knocked me on my ass, because I was unprepared for it. And Dad _knew_ I was unprepared for it, so that first time with the shotgun was in a controlled environment, firing in a safe direction. _And only one shot_. With a weapon and cartridge that would not have long-range damage potential. My dad’s definition of “gun control” was “proper handling and respect for your weapon”. When I was a child, my dad had a freaking arsenal of guns. I knew where they were kept, I knew where the ammunition was. And I was _never_ tempted to “play” with the guns. Because he taught me from an early age that they were deadly _weapons_, not toys. I wasn’t allowed to play with toy guns, because he believed that toy guns would teach me that _real_ guns were toys. He showed me how they could kill, by shooting the rabbits that infested our rural neighborhood. I saw the dead animals he would bring home from hunting trips. He taught me _respect_ for a gun’s potential, and taught me how to safely handle a gun. Hell, when that whole Columbine thing went down, I related to those boys’ perspective, because I went through the same crap they did in school. And when I was a teenager, I had easy access to a crapload of guns. But, thanks to the effort my dad made to educate me about guns, it never once crossed my mind to take those guns to school. You just don’t do that. All that being said, while I support the NRA and the 2nd Amendment, I have never owned a firearm of any kind as an adult. I didn’t enjoy hunting as a youth (I saw no reason to shoot something I wasn’t going to eat — I just don’t like venison and pheasant), and while I somewhat enjoyed target shooting (I was actually a pretty fair shot with a rifle - at age 13 I put three shots from my dad’s .270 hunting rifle into a 3/4" group, in the black, at 300 yards), it wasn’t something that engaged me enough to turn it into a hobby. I’ve been an “adult” for 30 years now, and I’ve gotten along fine without a gun. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-year-old-girl-accidentally-kills-gun-range-instructor-with-uzi-ro/696660/105 "2014-08-30T00:25:54Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I know. Don’t you hate it when there’s this big circle jerk where everyone is propping each other up and making even more outlandish statements and throwing bombs at even more ridiculous straw men, when someone actually shows up and points that out? > > How ridiculous. I should leave you guys to your ignorant mocking in peace. I might even deprived someone of that delicious cracker. And my mission here is accomplished. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lucky\_Mike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Lucky\_Mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucky_Mike)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-year-old-girl-accidentally-kills-gun-range-instructor-with-uzi-ro/696660/106 "2014-08-30T00:50:35Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > And my mission here is accomplished. 🙂 So you trolled. Ok. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-year-old-girl-accidentally-kills-gun-range-instructor-with-uzi-ro/696660/107 "2014-08-30T02:46:02Z")
> [@Lucky\_Mike](#): > > So you trolled. Ok. Nope. I just forsaw the direction this thread would take. > [@cochrane](#): > > I’m putting this in the Pit because I have a feeling this is where it’s going to go anyway. > [@cochrane](#): > > I made this thread so that people can post some _Recreational Outrage_[sup]TM[/sup] without hijacking the MPSIMS thread. I’m not saying nor do I believe this incident indicates any general failure of our society, just the actions of a few “adults” who should have had more common sense. But, this is the Straight Dope, where hyperbole runs rampant, I suppose. I clearly stated that i expected any thread made in IMHO or MPSIMS to likely derail into RO and be moved to the Pit, so i decided to head off that possibility and make this one for people to circle-jerk and set their strawmen on fire. I didn’t mislead anybody in the slightest. But if you want to call me a troll, go for it. It’s the Pit and you’re allowed. But your word doesn’t make it so. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-year-old-girl-accidentally-kills-gun-range-instructor-with-uzi-ro/696660/108 "2014-08-30T03:41:29Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > I still want to know under what interpretation of the NFA you can hand off an NFA weapon to someone who is NOT a licensee and have it be legal. > > I’m quite certain if I loaned someone who was a convicted felon my handgun to use at the range and it was discovered, the police would be taking me downtown to have a long and unpleasant talk with me and my attorney. I believe “possession” has been defined as using a loaned gun, and that’s just what happened in this case. > > I think this practice of loaning NFA weapons to unlicensed people to shoot is irresponsible and under our current laws I’m baffled as to why it’s legal. I have no problem with the NFA licensing scheme (other then the 1986 ban on new weapons) but there is no way I can justify someone who is not licensed using these weapons. The NFA regulates the registration and transfer of NFA weapons, I don’t think it says much about possession and you don’t get an NFA license or anything when you buy a NFA gun. ---
**Author:** ![Lucky\_Mike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Lucky\_Mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucky_Mike)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-year-old-girl-accidentally-kills-gun-range-instructor-with-uzi-ro/696660/109 "2014-08-30T04:14:36Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Nope. I just forsaw the direction this thread would take. > > I clearly stated that i expected any thread made in IMHO or MPSIMS to likely derail into RO and be moved to the Pit, so i decided to head off that possibility and make this one for people to circle-jerk and set their strawmen on fire. I didn’t mislead anybody in the slightest. But if you want to call me a troll, go for it. It’s the Pit and you’re allowed. But your word doesn’t make it so. :rolleyes: You said “mission”. That implies intent to deliver a particular outcome with a specified goal. You sir, said it was “mission accomplished” when you got a circle jerk and strawmen. That means you intended to create a circle jerk and posted the thread for that purpose. Troll label is appropriately applied. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-year-old-girl-accidentally-kills-gun-range-instructor-with-uzi-ro/696660/110 "2014-08-30T04:40:04Z")
> [@Lucky\_Mike](#): > > You said “mission”. > > That implies intent to deliver a particular outcome with a specified goal. > > You sir, said it was “mission accomplished” when you got a circle jerk and strawmen. That means you intended to create a circle jerk and posted the thread for that purpose. Troll label is appropriately applied. And what was your contribution to this thread again? Oh, wait. You didn’t make one. I said I was sincere in making this a serious discussion. See my OP. But I also foresaw people frothing at the mouth so I put this in the Pit where people could be free to do both. But like I said, you’re allowed to call me a troll if you want. But unless you’ve read the entire thread, you’re fucking mischaracterizing me. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-year-old-girl-accidentally-kills-gun-range-instructor-with-uzi-ro/696660/111 "2014-08-30T04:40:34Z")
The incident is already being called a hoax by internet froot loops, apparently based on the evidence that a gun instructor would never do something that stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-year-old-girl-accidentally-kills-gun-range-instructor-with-uzi-ro/696660/112 "2014-08-30T04:44:34Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > The incident is already being called a hoax by internet froot loops, apparently based on the evidence that a gun instructor would never do something that stupid. The crazy people don’t even try anymore. They automatically call anything a hoax if it happens and is on the news. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-year-old-girl-accidentally-kills-gun-range-instructor-with-uzi-ro/696660/113 "2014-08-30T04:50:29Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > The crazy people don’t even try anymore. They automatically call anything a hoax if it happens and is on the news. Oh, so you’ve _[been](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=731618)_ to the Straight Dope Message Board! ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-year-old-girl-accidentally-kills-gun-range-instructor-with-uzi-ro/696660/114 "2014-08-30T04:53:08Z")
Speaking as someone that has actually fired a full auto Uzi I have to say…the recoil is not that strong. The Uzi is a heavy gun and that weight soaks up a lot of the recoil. My .02 worth. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-year-old-girl-accidentally-kills-gun-range-instructor-with-uzi-ro/696660/115 "2014-08-30T04:59:14Z")
> [@River\_Hippie](#): > > Speaking as someone that has actually fired a full auto Uzi I have to say…the recoil is not that strong. The Uzi is a heavy gun and that weight soaks up a lot of the recoil. > > My .02 worth. Clearly it’s too strong for an untrained, unsuspecting kid. :shrug: I found it to be awfully jumpy. Maybe it was firing left-handed, or maybe I was just really used to my Sig. Mileage varies. ---
**Author:** ![Lucky\_Mike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Lucky\_Mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucky_Mike)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-year-old-girl-accidentally-kills-gun-range-instructor-with-uzi-ro/696660/116 "2014-08-30T07:03:10Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > And what was your contribution to this thread again? Oh, wait. You didn’t make one. I said I was sincere in making this a serious discussion. See my OP. But I also foresaw people frothing at the mouth so I put this in the Pit where people could be free to do both. But like I said, you’re allowed to call me a troll if you want. But unless you’ve read the entire thread, you’re fucking mischaracterizing me. I think the entire idea of having a 9 year hold an UZI is absurd. So, now I have contributed to your troll. Will you say “mission accomplished” again? Admit you trolled dude, you even claimed “mission accomplished”. Either admit that was a wrong choice of words or accept the title. ---
**Author:** ![ILikeForeignLanguages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bc8723/32.png) [@ILikeForeignLanguages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ILikeForeignLanguages)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-year-old-girl-accidentally-kills-gun-range-instructor-with-uzi-ro/696660/117 "2014-08-30T07:18:29Z")
Well, fortunately there won’t be any debate about Uzi gun control, since Uzis are already banned from civilian ownership. However, this may be a debate about age limits at this particular attraction. There might have to be some “must be this tall to ride” restrictions on that Uzi. ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-year-old-girl-accidentally-kills-gun-range-instructor-with-uzi-ro/696660/118 "2014-08-30T07:31:46Z")
It is difficult for me to shed more than a single tear for an idiot who puts an Uzi wholly into a 9-year-old girl’s possession and then stands right next to her as he commands her to fire it on full automatic while she predictably loses control. This was no accident. What the fuck is the value of teaching a young person to shoot an Uzi anyway? Is she going to buy one and carry it to defend herself while walking to school? Recreation? Fine, I guess, but at least take proper precaution. But there is no proper precaution. If he moves to a safe area, he leaves a little girl by herself with a fully automatic Uzi in her hand, commanding her to fire. If this guy was getting paid as a munitions expert and trainer, he is…was…stealing money. This girl will be traumatized her entire life, but thankfully, despite recent events, it will be a long one, assuming her idiot parents, who must’ve given consent, don’t endanger her well-being further, psychologically or otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-year-old-girl-accidentally-kills-gun-range-instructor-with-uzi-ro/696660/119 "2014-08-30T07:34:03Z")
> [@Lucky\_Mike](#): > > I think the entire idea of having a 9 year hold an UZI is absurd. So, now I have contributed to your troll. > > Will you say “mission accomplished” again? > > Admit you trolled dude, you even claimed “mission accomplished”. Either admit that was a wrong choice of words or accept the title. Ah, fuck it. You’re baiting me now, so who’s the fucking troll? Why the fuck do I have to defend myself to you? Bite me, asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-year-old-girl-accidentally-kills-gun-range-instructor-with-uzi-ro/696660/120 "2014-08-30T14:03:17Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The NFA regulates the registration and transfer of NFA weapons, I don’t think it says much about possession and you don’t get an NFA license or anything when you buy a NFA gun. Licensee refers to the person who has received the tax stamp etc. for the weapon. I’m pretty sure the NFA covered possession - it clearly indicates what is and isn’t legal with respect to ownership and possession. Again, courts have ruled that loaning a gun to a felon, a person not able to legally have the weapon, is a crime. I see no reason why an NFA weapon would have a special exception carved out for it with respect to possession. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-year-old-girl-accidentally-kills-gun-range-instructor-with-uzi-ro/696660.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9-year-old-girl-accidentally-kills-gun-range-instructor-with-uzi-ro/696660.md?page=7)