Are gun range accidents that unusual? I’m guessing we don’t know, because guns are regulated differently than other potentially dangerous objects, due to the fanaticism, lunacy and gullibility of the modern American NRA-encrusted gunnut.
At this nutcase website the attitude is “Eh accidents happen now and then. Maybe 3 per decade in a jack-shit shooting range. Nobody collects statistics on this and the Feds shouldn’t because Freedom”. Nor should these bozos have mandatory training by those without conflict of interest, insanity or buggle eyed fanaticism: again, freedom fries.
Here’s an “Hilarious” compilation of gun accidents: Best of 2011!!!111!! from military.com. Guffaw!
I’m not sure what it actually is. Like the instructor, it blows my mind that you can just hand a 9 year old, or 8 year old, a loaded fully automatic Uzi. And tell them to fire it on auto.
Maybe this happens all the time, and most 8 year old kids adjust to the gun instantly, and this sort of batspit insane behavior is unusual.
To be more nitpicky, muzzle climb is recoil, it’s just recoil where the bottom side is unable to recoil fully.
The instructor was terminally stupid. This was pretty much the worst possible gun to put in the hands of a child - a light weight, automatic weapon with no stock. Any other gun would have been more controllable, and he’d still be alive today.
[QUOTE=Measure for Measure]
Are gun range accidents that unusual? I’m guessing we don’t know, because guns are regulated differently than other potentially dangerous objects, due to the fanaticism, lunacy and gullibility of the modern American NRA-encrusted gunnut.
[/QUOTE]
Or, maybe it’s not all that common after all and it’s loony lefty gun grabbers that are the issue? Hard to say when the hyperbolic horseshit starts to fly.
So, a bunch of bozos post on a loony web site and this proves…what, exactly? What do you think that this link demonstrates? If I post a link to a nutty lefty site ranting about evil guns, will that prove something or act as a balance? I’m fairly sure I can find such a site with leftwinger and gun grabber types going nuts over this.
You see the top comment there saying most of it was staged? No idea, as I’m not going to wade through a drive by link to try and get whatever point you think you are making here. Do you have any fucking DATA? Or just going to basically go with “Nobody collects statistics on this and the Feds shouldn’t because Freedom” and act as if that is meaningful? Just curious…it’s the Pit after all (thus the gratuitous ‘fucking’…doesn’t feel right without at least one curse word :p), so you don’t have to back your bullshit up, but I’d like to see something indicating that range accidents are ‘common’…and what that means in comparison to the literally millions of people who go to the range every year. I mean, are we talking ‘common’ as 10 accidents a year? A month? A day? A minute? Every second? An order of magnitude more? Less? What exactly is the risk here? Do you know? I don’t, except anecdotally where I can tell you the only accident at a range I’ve ever seen involved hot brass down the shirt or a slide locking on some poor bastards thumb.
How do you know it was ‘untabulated’? There isn’t a lot of detail in that link, and it doesn’t say whether it was tabulated or not, just that the reporter who wrote the article didn’t have a lot of detail.
Instead of drive by links that demonstrate jack all…assuming you want to demonstrate anything and not just rant…try backing up whatever it is you are asserting with something solid. And for the record, your ‘Nobody collects statistics on this and the Feds shouldn’t because Freedom’, though I know it was a parody, sounds vaguely CTish to me and doesn’t pass the smell test. I’m pretty sure that if you get shot, on or off the range, and you go to one of those doctor or hospital thingies, it gets logged as a ‘gun shot’ and thus is reported to someone. Maybe I’m wrong about that, and gun shots happen all the time, millions of times a day, and no one reports them because of FREEDOM…or something.
Yup, but the instructor should have known that it would happen, especially with a smaller person, and taken precautions. I had it happen with a grown man on a range with an M-16 on full auto. He was a skinny little git, and I told him to make sure he had a firm grip on the fore stock and to fire in bursts. He lit off a full mag and the muzzle climb took him right over onto his ass. Everybody behind him tried to dig a hole and pull the dirt in behind them.
Some valid points here. Some Dopers may decry these deaths, statistically they have no meaning and are of no value. They are, to quote a beloved military phrase," acceptible losses." Maybe I should just stop being outraged and embrace the beauty of Collateral Damage.
Once I accept the apparently popular concept that one human life has zero value, the outrage kinda evaporates !
Are you equally outraged by every instance of society measuring acceptable risk when it will surly cause some non-zero number of deaths, or just those involving guns? I mean, having a pool involves risk…and a non-zero number of people (including kids) die every year from such a frivolous item. Alcohol consumption involves risk that society had deemed to be acceptable, yet causes numerous deaths as well as other ‘Collateral Damage’. Are you equally pissed off about those things? Recently a state decided to legalize the use of the dreaded WEED…and that decision means that some non-zero number of people will die. And society accepts that as the price of doing business. Nearly everything that touches your life involves an acceptance, by society, that some number of people will die. The power coming into your house to power your computer and allow you to vent your spleen, for instance, means that some non-zero number of folks are going to die to give you that.
Hopefully you haven’t burst a blood vessel at this point with all the rage at ‘Collateral Damage’ that impacts each and every thing you do every day of your life.
This is exactly what happened, from what I’ve seen of the video. The muzzle went up and to the left, right where the instructor shouldn’t have been standing. I would think an instructor in the case of a small girl would do what my dad did, and stand behind her, supporting her arms precisely to keep the recoil from getting out of control (regular, normal guns and rifles in my case). He really should not have been standing next to her like that.
To answer your question (if you want to call it that ) I basically googled (Duck Duck Go) Shooting range accidents (or something like that) and that was the best that I had.
Or since we’re at the SDMB… ::stern look:: it is you that made the claim that this is a small problem so it is you that have to back it up. I was just making a few innocent (very innocent… and cool headed) observations.
I’m saying gun owners should support the regulation of firing ranges, just as certifiably sane auto owners support auto safety regs. The websites I linked to were gun friendly, but they seem to imply that accidents at gun ranges were routine if not common. Jokes about Darwin really don’t cut it: there are unnecessary deaths occurring that would justify investigation in any other context. But NRA members are far too loony, gullible and doe eyed to support meaningful and empirically backed attempts to advance gun safety.
I’ll note that the military.com compilation of allegedly hilarious gun accidents of 2011 had shots of kids. It’s not clear how many were set up… actually it’s not clear if any were set up, though that may be the case.
ETA: Regulation would involve reports of gun range accidents and incidents at a national level. If such a process existed, I’m asserting we would know about it.
ETA2: Where’s Der when you need him? Somebody has to apply the scorch.
The very idea that an Uzi is placed into the hands of a 9 year old child is horrific to me. The fact that it caused a death ( and in the last several years has caused at least two deaths cited in this thread ) is a source of great sadness. Those who hold their speedloaders closer to their hearts than their living family members may love the concept of acceptable losses, but I do not. Sorry the sarcasm had to be explained !!!
The whole " swimming pools/ automobiles/ bicycles/ walking down the sidewalk " meme has run its course many a time here on the Dope. No doubt it will run its course in this thread too. See, many societies in the last, oh, 10,000 years have encouraged 9 year old children to enter oceans, lakes, rivers and pools. How many societies place lethal weapons into the hands of 9 year old children and encourage them to fire them off? ( Except for Al Qaeda… of course. )
As the spouse of a [damn skilled] safety professional, it still stuns me sometimes that, in response to a situation so clearly wrong in principle, people who want really badly for that thing to be acceptable will latch on to details of casual mitigation rather than the unsafe and unwise procedure itself as the ‘cause’ of the entirely predictable and utterly preventable accident that ensues.
“If that guy had his gloves on, he wouldn’a cut himself so badly while tracing out a gasket with that box knife…” “Hell, everybody knows you use a stick to clear that brake press, you don’t just walk in past the guard. What the hell you mean ‘light curtain’? We got rid of that time wastin’ shit.” “That instructor was stupid; you gotta warn 9 year olds about recoil before you let 'er go full auto. What a dumfuck.”
Off topic, but can you explain how people will die because of legalized weed? This is an honest question, because I recently visited the Museum of Marijuana & Hemp in Amsterdam and was led to believe that there has not been a single death EVER from marijuana consumption. Do you have evidence to the contrary?
Unless you’re referring to drug deals gone bad, but that only happens when pot is illegal. Of course, the delivery driver bringing legal pot might be killed in a traffic accident on his way to the weed shop, but that doesn’t seem to be what you are referring to. Clarification on this point would be much appreciated. Thanks.
