# 911 orders caller to give victim CPR, caller refuses: caller faces legal consequences? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 29, 2011, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/911-orders-caller-to-give-victim-cpr-caller-refuses-caller-faces-legal-consequences/580146 "2011-04-29T11:54:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/911-orders-caller-to-give-victim-cpr-caller-refuses-caller-faces-legal-consequences/580146/1 "2011-04-29T11:54:12Z")
Not going to go too much into detail of who or when, but a guy I know was in kind of a morbid situation a few years ago: a friend of his hanged himself, and was discovered by his (the friend’s wife). She was traumatized and didn’t know what to do, and instead of calling the police or something she called the protagonist of this story (the guy). Guy arrived several minutes later, saw his friend hanging, and then called 911. 911 lady told him that he would have to cut the friend down and give him CPR. Guy demurred on the second part, though, responding that it’s been at least half an hour, friend is ice cold, there wouldn’t be any point. 911 says NO, you MUST give him CPR until the paramedics get there. So guy follows her orders, cuts friend down, and spends maybe 15 minutes trying to resuscitate a corpse, until the paramedics show up and say, “yup, he’s dead.” (To be fair though, I don’t know what the paramedics did, maybe they were bound to continue the CPR too.) I can see the rationale of 911 having this policy, but I idly wondered what would have happened if guy had refused, on grounds of the obvious? Would he have been arrested & charged with manslaughter or something? Or at least have to clear his name after an inquest? Morbid curiousity . . . ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/911-orders-caller-to-give-victim-cpr-caller-refuses-caller-faces-legal-consequences/580146/2 "2011-04-29T12:35:10Z")
I thought that by the laws of most states you need to owe a duty of care towards the afflicted person to be prosecuted. I speak with the full authority of an episode of _Law & Order_ behind me. ---
**Author:** ![bizerta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@bizerta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizerta)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/911-orders-caller-to-give-victim-cpr-caller-refuses-caller-faces-legal-consequences/580146/3 "2011-04-29T12:53:45Z")
In general, you are not required to do anything, but once you do something, you are obliged to follow through. In this case, calling 911 might be deemed as “something”. If the paramedics arrived 30 minutes later and (mistakenly?) deemed the person had been dead for 15 minutes, your buddy could be screwed if nothing had been done. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/911-orders-caller-to-give-victim-cpr-caller-refuses-caller-faces-legal-consequences/580146/4 "2011-04-29T12:55:42Z")
I can’t imagine how a 911 operator or anyone else could command an untrained person to perform CPR. Most licensed healthcare providers (eg: doctors, nurses, EMTs, etc.) do have a duty to perform, but not your average Joe on the street. If “Joe” wants to perform CPR, they’re covered in most states by “good samaritan” laws that absolve them of liability. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/911-orders-caller-to-give-victim-cpr-caller-refuses-caller-faces-legal-consequences/580146/5 "2011-04-29T12:57:19Z")
> [@bizerta](#): > > In general, you are not required to do anything, but once you do something, you are obliged to follow through. > > In this case, calling 911 might be deemed as “something”. As far as I know (many years of WFA training, no legal training) this is not the case. Calling 911 cannot be considered starting medical care. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/911-orders-caller-to-give-victim-cpr-caller-refuses-caller-faces-legal-consequences/580146/6 "2011-04-29T13:56:42Z")
> [@gotpasswords](#): > > Most licensed healthcare providers (eg: doctors, nurses, EMTs, etc.) do have a duty to perform, but not your average Joe on the street. If “Joe” wants to perform CPR, they’re covered in most states by “good samaritan” laws that absolve them of liability. No, we only have a duty to our _patients_. If we see someone who is not our patient in trouble in public or private, we are allowed to help, and protected by the Good Samaritan laws if we injure the person in the attempt, but we’re not legally obligated to help. Of course, most of us got into these professions because we \*want \*to help, so most of us will help if we can, but unless we’ve already agreed to take the person on as a patient, it’s not a legal obligation. As for the OP, I think the “you have to” was an urging that the dispatcher hoped would get your friend to try CPR, in the sense of, “you called 911 for help, the only help standing there is you, so if you want to help the guy, you have to start CPR!”; it was not legal advice. But, that being said, a layperson isn’t going to find it easy to accurately diagnose a dead person from a mostly dead one, so if I were in the situation, I wouldn’t let a cold body dissuade me from trying CPR, unless the risks to me seemed to outweigh the potential benefit to the dead person. If I was the dispatcher, I’d urge CPR, too. I’ve had several very cold-to-the-touch patients talking to me, so external temperature isn’t a great diagnostic tool. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/911-orders-caller-to-give-victim-cpr-caller-refuses-caller-faces-legal-consequences/580146/7 "2011-04-29T14:15:57Z")
I found my father dead, and he looked dead. I was 11 at the time, he was in bed and my mum told me to “go check on my father.” He had came home and said, he was tired and wanted to nap before dinner, he just got back from the doctor, where he was said to be fine. So I went in and even then, at that age, never having seen a dead person before, I could just tell by looking at him he was dead. I told my mum and she came in and I could see her trying to do CPR on him and she told me to call an ambulance and get the neighbors, but I was like, “do I need to call an ambulance, 'cause he’s dead.” So I’m not saying this is the case every time, but some times you can tell, dead is dead. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/911-orders-caller-to-give-victim-cpr-caller-refuses-caller-faces-legal-consequences/580146/8 "2011-04-29T14:32:15Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > No, we only have a duty to our _patients_. If we see someone who is not our patient in trouble in public or private, we are allowed to help, and protected by the Good Samaritan laws if we injure the person in the attempt, but we’re not legally obligated to help. Of course, most of us got into these professions because we \*want \*to help, so most of us will help if we can, but unless we’ve already agreed to take the person on as a patient, it’s not a legal obligation. That varies state to state though. Here in Massachusetts, doctors & nurses under the terms of their license are required to provide aid in an emergency if able to do so. I don’t know what the repercussions are if they don’t and are somehow caught. No cite, but have been told this by multiple doctors & nurses. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/911-orders-caller-to-give-victim-cpr-caller-refuses-caller-faces-legal-consequences/580146/9 "2011-04-29T15:23:58Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > No cite, but have been told this by multiple doctors & nurses. That may be, but I can find no legal citation for it being true. > [@](#): > > [There are several laws in Massachusetts insulating those rendering aid from liability, but no law requiring a bystander to provide assistance. Separate statutes free EMS personnel, physicians and nurses, and the general public trained in CPR from personal liability. Many sources suggest that Massachusetts has a “duty to aid” law, which requires witnesses to come to the assistance of crime victims. In fact, this law creates a duty to report, but not a duty to aid. Chapter 268, section 40 provides “Whoever knows that another person is a victim of aggravated rape, rape, murder, manslaughter or armed robbery and is at the scene of said crime shall, to the extent that said person can do so without danger or peril to himself or others, report said crime to an appropriate law enforcement official as soon as reasonably practicable.”](http://www.scannewengland.net/forums/showthread.php?10668-Good-Samaritan-Law-and-Duty-to-Respond) Massachusetts Gen. Laws Ann. ch. 268, § 40, ch. 269, § 18 says that “Whoever knows that another person is a victim of aggravated rape, rape, murder, manslaughter or armed robbery [or hazing] and is at the scene of said crime shall report said crime to an appropriate law enforcement official as soon as reasonably practicable to the extent that said person can do so without danger or peril to himself or others” _Report_, not treat. I can find no other laws that would apply to the situation. The above one is the one cited in articles and blogs referencing the so called “duty to aid” law in Massachusetts. I think it’s one of those examples of lazy research, copying one anothers’ claims and cites without reading the original law. Vermont \*does \*appear to have an actual duty to render “reasonable assistance” law, as long as that assistance does not place the rescuer in danger or peril, and it only applies if no one else is helping. (12 Vt. Stat. Ann. § 519) Since CPR - or any medical intervention - does place the rescuer in danger (of communicable illness, of physical injury), it most likely wouldn’t hold up in court. And the fine is a whopping “not more than $100”, so you can see how strongly they feel about this one. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/911-orders-caller-to-give-victim-cpr-caller-refuses-caller-faces-legal-consequences/580146/10 "2011-04-29T15:34:49Z")
From what I’ve been told, it’s a licensing issue, not a criminal law issue - so they cannot be prosecuted in a court of law, but they can face whatever censure the licensing authority can bring to bear. I’ll ask again this weekend. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/911-orders-caller-to-give-victim-cpr-caller-refuses-caller-faces-legal-consequences/580146/11 "2011-04-29T15:53:38Z")
Only interested in the US, or generally? In Germany (and I think in several other European countries), you are\*\* required to help\*\* somebody in medical need to the best of your abilities ([Duty to](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_to_rescue)(english) [rescue](http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rechtliche_Aspekte_bei_Hilfeleistung) (german)) So if you see somebody and walk by without calling 911 (112) although you have a cell phone\*, which is the minimum anybody can do, then legally you can be held responsible; in Germany the penalty for not helping is > [@from the German wikipedia article](#): > > Wer die erforderliche und zumutbare Hilfe unterlässt, kann mit Geldstrafe oder Freiheitsstrafe bis zu einem Jahr bestraft werden. Das festgesetzte Strafmaß wird unterschiedliche Kriterien berücksichtigen. Insbesondere dürfte die Schwere der aus der Notlage drohenden Gefahr, aber auch das Verhalten nach der Tat eine Rolle spielen. > > He who forbears the required and reasonable help, can be punished with a monetary fine or prison/jail\*\* up to one year. So all bystanders gawking at an accident victim bleeding out instead of helping can be prosecuted\*\*\*; anybody that walks on by an unconscious person choking on their tongue can be prosecuted; and if 911 tells you to help somebody and you have no **reasonable** \*\*\*\* excuse, then in Germany you would be prosecuted, too. Practically, of course, the police has great problems finding these people, and are usually more concerned with the accident itself than with taking names; but I wish they would crack down in a few spectactular cases to send a message. Remember, too, that nobody in Germany who gives first aid can be sued for malpractice, you’re covered under Good Samaritan laws. (Well, except if you do something extremly stupid that a 10year old should know better: a fully trained doctor who puts flour on a burn instead of cold water is committing serious medical malpractice. But a dentist who’s not up to date on CPR won’t be held responsible for making excusable mistakes). - 112 is free of charge here - I assume the same goes for 911? \*\* There’s a difference between prison and jail in the US that does not exist that way in Germany; the law just says you get incarcerated. \*\*\* Obstructing real helpers like the police or ambulance by standing around in a thick circle is a seperate offense. \*\*\*\* Reasonable hindrances are if you yourself are severely handicapped and thus not able to give CPR; you have toddlers at home and need to get home ASAP before they kill each other, etc. (getting to work on time so your boss doesn’t yell at you doesn’t count) ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/911-orders-caller-to-give-victim-cpr-caller-refuses-caller-faces-legal-consequences/580146/12 "2011-04-29T16:00:01Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > From what I’ve been told, it’s a licensing issue, not a criminal law issue - so they cannot be prosecuted in a court of law, but they can face whatever censure the licensing authority can bring to bear. I’ll ask again this weekend. You’ve been told incorrectly then, as least for nurses. I’ve been all through the Nurse Practice Act for Mass., which is what governs the licensing for nurses, and there’s nothing in there obligating a nurse to treat a person who is not her patient (and is not a child). There’s lots about \*reporting \*things like abuse (see the third and fourth pages at the Standards of Conduct link), but not treating. [http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=eohhs2terminal&L=6&L0=Home&L1=Government&L2=Laws%2C+Regulations+and+Policies&L3=Department+of+Public+Health+Regulations+%26+Policies&L4=Regulations+and+Other+Publications+-+M+to+P&L5=Nursing+Licensing&sid=Eeohhs2&b=terminalcontent&f=dph\_regs\_nursing\_244cmr&csid=Eeohhs2](http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=eohhs2terminal&L=6&L0=Home&L1=Government&L2=Laws%2c+Regulations+and+Policies&L3=Department+of+Public+Health+Regulations+%26+Policies&L4=Regulations+and+Other+Publications+-+M+to+P&L5=Nursing+Licensing&sid=Eeohhs2&b=terminalcontent&f=dph_regs_nursing_244cmr&csid=Eeohhs2) In the US, most of these laws are mandatory reporting laws, not mandatory treatment ones. And the few (Vt. is the only one I can find at the moment, but there are reportedly half a dozen others) that do “require” treatment leave that loophole about risk, without defining what level or type of risk needs to be present to dis-obligate assistance. As \*\*contanze \*\*says, the European laws are quite different - not just for doctors and nurses, but for laypeople as well. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/911-orders-caller-to-give-victim-cpr-caller-refuses-caller-faces-legal-consequences/580146/13 "2011-04-29T16:37:47Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > So I’m not saying this is the case every time, but some times you can tell, dead is dead. There are some cases, but there are also some important exceptions. For example, for hypothermia and cold water immersion, the rule is “You’re not dead until you are warm and dead.” People can have no appearances of life but are just very, very quiet. We were told that the only times you can assume death is severe physical trauma, such as decapitation or massive head/chest wounds. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/911-orders-caller-to-give-victim-cpr-caller-refuses-caller-faces-legal-consequences/580146/14 "2011-04-29T19:21:25Z")
Way back when I took CPR courses, the EMT who was teaching the course said that he wasn’t allowed to assume death unless there was rigor mortis, decay, or decapitation. To the OP, though, most people don’t know how to do CPR, and telling someone who doesn’t know what he’s doing over the phone to do so will probably do more harm than good. I can’t imagine why the 911 dispatchers would tell him that in the first place, much less that it’d be required. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/911-orders-caller-to-give-victim-cpr-caller-refuses-caller-faces-legal-consequences/580146/15 "2011-04-29T19:28:29Z")
In Ohio, a 911 operator has no authority to _order_ anyone to do anything. He or she can certainly strongly encourage a caller to do something, and it might be both lifesaving and morally right for the caller to then do so, but the caller can decline with no legal consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Profound\_Gibberish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Profound\_Gibberish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Profound_Gibberish)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/911-orders-caller-to-give-victim-cpr-caller-refuses-caller-faces-legal-consequences/580146/16 "2011-04-29T20:07:22Z")
I am an RN. Private citizens are under no obligation to come to the aid of anyone. And 911 certainly cannot order anyone to perform an act of any sort. The rationale for both is that injury could occur to the victim and the untrained rescuer by engaging in acts that they are not trained to perform. The only private individuals who have an obligation to assist in a medical emergency are Emergency Room doctors and nurses, Paramedics, and others specifically trained and certified in emergency response when they come across an injury while off duty. In this day emergency reponse is only minutes away and CPR without any other interventions is quite a farce in saving lives (it is better than nothing, but only slightly so). Best to call 911 and wait–exasperating as that sounds–because you are likely to do more harm than good by intervening if you do not have the training. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/911-orders-caller-to-give-victim-cpr-caller-refuses-caller-faces-legal-consequences/580146/17 "2011-04-29T20:17:10Z")
“First, make sure he’s dead” ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/911-orders-caller-to-give-victim-cpr-caller-refuses-caller-faces-legal-consequences/580146/18 "2011-04-29T20:22:54Z")
> [@dbx820](#): > > The only private individuals who have an obligation to assist in a medical emergency are Emergency Room doctors and nurses, Paramedics, and others specifically trained and certified in emergency response when they come across an injury while off duty. Where is this legal obligation? Is it is the Nursing Practice Act for your state? ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/911-orders-caller-to-give-victim-cpr-caller-refuses-caller-faces-legal-consequences/580146/19 "2011-04-29T20:29:49Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > “First, make sure he’s dead” \>BANG!\< “Okay, now what?” ---
**Author:** ![Skyscrapers\_Are\_Gravestones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de053/32.png) [@Skyscrapers\_Are\_Gravestones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skyscrapers_Are_Gravestones)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/911-orders-caller-to-give-victim-cpr-caller-refuses-caller-faces-legal-consequences/580146/20 "2011-04-29T20:41:39Z")
NM EMT checking in: In my state Duty to Act applies only to uniformed, trained medical personnel whom are on the clock (or volunteers in uniform). For a medical professional to be found negligent they have to violate their standards of care through a) commission (acting above their training level) or, b) omission (failure to provide advanced care you are qualified to do) resulting in harm to the patient caused by the providers actions (or inaction). If you’re off the clock, you have no duty to act. If you’re not a medical professional, none of this applies to you at all. We have a Good Samaritan law which protects individuals and off-duty medical personnel from being sued for interventions they performed with the _implied_ consent of an unconscious individual, as long as the intervention performed is within the level of training of the individual involved and done _in good faith_. So, in New Mexico, your friend would not be obligated to assist in any way. He would also not be liable for the consequences of CPR performed in a good faith effort to help. As far as I’m aware, this is pretty standard most places. CPR is messy business and people not trained in it really shouldn’t be doing it in the first place, IMO. It can absolutely do more harm than good (lacerated liver, pulmonary contusions, gastric rupture, and all sorts of other internal damage). If you’ve got any inclination to perform CPR on another person or yourself, take an AHA certified training class. But that’s just my $0.02. And, of course, YMMV, know your local laws, IANAL and my legal opinion means approximately jack, and always call 911 if you find yourself in this position. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/911-orders-caller-to-give-victim-cpr-caller-refuses-caller-faces-legal-consequences/580146.md?page=2)