# 97 year-old woman in handcuffs...That'll teach her! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 28, 2004, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/97-year-old-woman-in-handcuffs-thatll-teach-her/242578 "2004-04-28T23:33:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![lisacurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/41988e/32.png) [@lisacurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisacurl)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/97-year-old-woman-in-handcuffs-thatll-teach-her/242578/21 "2004-04-29T04:31:55Z")
Well, it’s all the fault of **Fear Itself** that I will be burning in Hell someday, because I laughed like a loon at “They admit that Crowder’s prosthetic eye fell out at some point…” What a world. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/97-year-old-woman-in-handcuffs-thatll-teach-her/242578/22 "2004-04-29T06:06:19Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > I’m not saying they shouldn’t have arrested her, but they didn’t **have** to handcuff her. Sorry, but you’re wrong. Unless their departments written policies are unusual, they _DID_ have to handcuff her. Having been arrested doesn’t make you an expert on this subject. The written policies for the department I work for explicitly state that **ALL** arrested individuals be handcuffed behind the back, unless very extreme extenuating circumstances are present. Just being old doesn’t fit that exception. Most departments have a similar policy. I’d much rather have ignorant civilians call me a prick for cuffing an old lady than to get caught violating the departments written policies. Police departments are required to have written policies. These policies chain any discretion an officer has in certain situations. If you believe nothing else I say, at least believe this: violating the departments written policies, even if nothing goes wrong, is the fastest way to get booted off the force. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/97-year-old-woman-in-handcuffs-thatll-teach-her/242578/23 "2004-04-29T06:22:26Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Having been arrested doesn’t make you an expert on this subject. First of all, calm the fuck down. Second of all, I didn’t claim to be a fucking expert, I just said the world’s not black and white and not _everyone_ is handcuffed every single time, seeing as how I wasn’t handcuffed _twice_. Third of all, I didn’t even say I thought she _shouldn’t_ have been handcuffed, either. Frankly, I couldn’t care less one way or another. I’m glad she was arrested since she violated the law and so long as they didn’t violate her rights, I have no objection to what they did beyond that. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/97-year-old-woman-in-handcuffs-thatll-teach-her/242578/24 "2004-04-29T06:28:20Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > The written policies for the department I work for explicitly state that **ALL** arrested individuals be handcuffed behind the back, unless very extreme extenuating circumstances are present. Oh, and just because that’s the way they do it where _you_ work, doesn’t make that procedure universal, either. Even when they started to handcuff me before deciding not to, they were doing so in _front_ of me, not behind my back. 'Tain’t the same everywhere and sometimes officers have been known to use their discretion. And that’s **ALL** I was trying to get across. ---
**Author:** ![Badge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Badge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badge)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/97-year-old-woman-in-handcuffs-thatll-teach-her/242578/25 "2004-04-29T06:41:50Z")
My two cents: First: the officers had no choice but to arrest her. Arresting on a warrant simply isn’t optional. Second: anyone, even a 97-year old woman, can possibly be dangerous. A lot of people carry guns. If the officers couldn’t reasonably be sure that this woman wasn’t armed (a thorough pat-down of an elderly woman could be seen as worse than using handcuffs by some), then handcuffs might be appropriate. Third: the courts have ruled that handcuffing a person is a use of force, and must be reasonable. Departments with policies that require absolutely everyone to be handcuffed are headed for lawsuits (I know of no agencies anywhere in my area that have such a policy). The Officers must have the discretion to not handcuff when they think it is inappropriate. Last: I would have to be pretty damned sure that this lady was likely to be dangerous before I’d cuff her. But that’s just me. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/97-year-old-woman-in-handcuffs-thatll-teach-her/242578/26 "2004-04-29T07:04:42Z")
> [@Badge](#): > > the courts have ruled that handcuffing a person is a use of force, and must be reasonable. Departments with policies that require absolutely everyone to be handcuffed are headed for lawsuits There has to be an exception for extenuating circumstances. The problem that some here don’t understand is, there are some real fuckers wearing white shirts and gold badges. These guys hold written policies like it’s the word of Gwad written in stone. And they can really fuck with you on piss ant shit like not cuffing an old lady. I would say not to cuff her and have an officer sit with her in the back on the way to booking. But then you get there and theres a Major tapping his foot wanting to know why you didn’t cuff an arrested subject. You can be damned if you do, and damned if you don’t. I got my ass reamed in 1989 for not cuffing a 9 year old on a shoplifting charge. Who wants this kind of pressure? I’d rather just cuff and take shit from those who don’t sign my check rather than from those who do. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/97-year-old-woman-in-handcuffs-thatll-teach-her/242578/27 "2004-04-29T07:05:15Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > 'Tain’t the same everywhere and sometimes officers have been known to use their discretion. And that’s **ALL** I was trying to get across. Same here. I was arrested and I heard the P.O. say to her partner; “I really don’t think it will be necessary to cuff her.” Partner: “I don’t want to cuff her, either.” Hence, no cuffs. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/97-year-old-woman-in-handcuffs-thatll-teach-her/242578/28 "2004-04-29T07:55:21Z")
I just looked up my departments policy on handcuffing. It’s exact wording says: _“Handcuffs will be used on all arrested individuals during times they are being transported.”…“The correct use of handcuffs includes placing the handcuffs behind the subjects back when possible, and safety locking the handcuffs at the earliest possible moment”_ There really isn’t any breathing room here. I see nothing that suggests any discretion. Even if it seems well over the top to cuff a 97 year old, a guy could get seriously boned by the brass if he doesn’t do it! ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/97-year-old-woman-in-handcuffs-thatll-teach-her/242578/29 "2004-04-29T10:29:54Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Even if it seems well over the top to cuff a 97 year old, a guy could get seriously boned by the brass if he doesn’t do it! And yet, even under the threat of brass-boning, it is not unheard of for a cop to diverge from policy. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Ashkicker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@Ashkicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashkicker)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/97-year-old-woman-in-handcuffs-thatll-teach-her/242578/30 "2004-04-29T11:50:09Z")
> [@kung fu lola](#): > > Same here. I was arrested and I heard the P.O. say to her partner; “I really don’t think it will be necessary to cuff her.” > Partner: “I don’t want to cuff her, either.” > > Hence, no cuffs. You mean they weren’t afraid you would use some kung fu on them? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lsura](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Lsura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lsura)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/97-year-old-woman-in-handcuffs-thatll-teach-her/242578/31 "2004-04-29T12:47:55Z")
> [@percypercy](#): > > They had a bit on this woman on the 10 o’clock news tonight. Lemme just say I want a grandmother like Dotty Kelton. > -Lil She was on the Today Show this morning and you’re right. If my grandmothers weren’t dead, I’d want one just like her. Heck, if I ever get to be a grandmother I want to be like her. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/97-year-old-woman-in-handcuffs-thatll-teach-her/242578/32 "2004-04-29T13:51:33Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > [It could have been worse…](http://www.oregonlive.com/newsflash/regional/index.ssf?/base/news-5/1082773741315640.xml) I don’t understand shocking her and spraying her, these guys couldn’t get a 71 year old under control without doing that?? Geez, a few kidney shots ought to be enough. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/97-year-old-woman-in-handcuffs-thatll-teach-her/242578/33 "2004-04-29T14:20:40Z")
As I understand it, the bones of the extremely elderly are extremely fragile, and their joints aren’t exactly limber, either. That’s why falling is so dangerous to them. I think the cops risked seriously injuring Dottie when they cuffed her. Just imagine if she had been injured as a result of the cuffing. Think you wouldn’t have had your ass handed to you on a plate then, PKbites? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/97-year-old-woman-in-handcuffs-thatll-teach-her/242578/34 "2004-04-29T14:41:00Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > As I understand it, the bones of the extremely elderly are extremely fragile, and their joints aren’t exactly limber, either. That’s why falling is so dangerous to them. I think the cops risked seriously injuring Dottie when they cuffed her. Just imagine if she had been injured as a result of the cuffing. Think you wouldn’t have had your ass handed to you on a plate then, PKbites? I find your comments amusing considering your name. 😃 To be honest though, I don’t know which side of the fence I’m on. On the one hand, I’m a big advocate of common sense, which tells me she didn’t need to be cuffed. On the other, I think that everyone that gets arrested should be cuffed, otherwise it’s to much of a gray area. ---
**Author:** ![Kepi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kepi/32/7251_2.png) [@Kepi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kepi)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/97-year-old-woman-in-handcuffs-thatll-teach-her/242578/35 "2004-04-29T15:04:51Z")
> [@Master Wang-Ka](#): > > The incident took place in Highland Park, Texas. > > This means the **Dallas Police** were handling the incident in question. > > Grandma’s lucky they didn’t just draw their sidearms and open fire, pumping round after round through the windshield and driver’s side window, stopping to reload and fire a few more, just for effect, before undertaking the arrest. Umm, no. It means the **Highland Park Police Department** was handling the incident in question. While it’s true that the town of Highland Park is completely surrounded by the city of Dallas, it is still a separate municipality with its own police department. (This is the same PD that arrested and cuffed Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones when he interfered with a traffic stop involving one of his entourage.) Of course, being a separate PD doesn’t preclude them from still pumping Granny full of lead. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/97-year-old-woman-in-handcuffs-thatll-teach-her/242578/36 "2004-04-29T15:32:25Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Think you wouldn’t have had your ass handed to you on a plate then, PKbites? Like I said, damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Alot rides on how an officers superiors react to deviations of policy. Some of them would use something like this to screw with you if they had it in for you. Our policy book is a huge binder full of rules and regs. I wouldn’t change anything, but I would add one page in the begining that said “Use your head a little bit about some of this” It’d be directed to both officers and supervisors!.😉 ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/97-year-old-woman-in-handcuffs-thatll-teach-her/242578/37 "2004-04-29T15:50:25Z")
Boy, that’s a frisk I’d be ready to forget. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/97-year-old-woman-in-handcuffs-thatll-teach-her/242578/38 "2004-04-29T15:54:44Z")
Iif the reg is that all people arrested should be cuffed (I would agree, just to be consistant), when a rare case like this pops up, the officer just puts them on real loose, or if the lady is super frail, perhaps 2 pairs linked so her arms aren’t pulled too far back. I believe it’s possible to cuff someone properly even if they are older. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/97-year-old-woman-in-handcuffs-thatll-teach-her/242578/39 "2004-04-29T17:58:57Z")
It must have been a very slow new day for this shit story to see the light of day at all… ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/97-year-old-woman-in-handcuffs-thatll-teach-her/242578/40 "2004-04-29T18:32:36Z")
Am I the only one who read the title and thought the OP was about some new geriatric BDSM fetish? :eek: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/97-year-old-woman-in-handcuffs-thatll-teach-her/242578.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/97-year-old-woman-in-handcuffs-thatll-teach-her/242578.md?page=3)