Look, let me try another tack. This issue is not considered contentious of difficult to mathematicians. You will never find a university professor of mathematics (and you’d probably have trouble finding a high school math teacher) who will espouse the opinion that 0.999… is not equal to 1. It’s nowhere in the peer-reviewed literature. So where does that leave you? Do you think your insights are new, or revolutionary? If so, publish! Write up your proofs in a scientific article and submit it to a peer-reviewed journal. It’d be a huge deal! But wait until you do that to trumpet to the hills that you’ve disproven something that’s so heavily held in the mathematical community.
That remains to be seen. In the end when the truth is revealed.
Can you fight against the truth? I know you are the ignorant people.
I have seen your ignorance. I have proven it. But you deny everything.
I would not be so victorious yet. Not until the truth is revealed.
Yes, I know those “proofs”- There are proofs and there are “proofs”. There
are also lies, and there are truths.
You think the problem with 0.99999…is easy, but it is not. You think you have
solved it, and every professor of mathematics and teacher too. But they have not.
I have shown, they are all wrong. They are afraid to admit they are wrong, that
they just don’t know, that they are the ignorant people.
Yes, indeed, what I am saying is revolutionary. The truth has just not been revealed
to the world. What is preventing this is your arrogance, your denial of every single fact presented to you, your appeal to authority, your seeking of acceptance of other people at the price of sacrificing the truth.
Perhaps it would be a huge deal to write a journal. But why I should seek such
a fame? I don’t need a respect from people. I seek truth and knowledge.
I am satisfied with that.
That’s all rather grandiose for someone talking about basic arithmetic (and very incorrectly, at that) on a message board. If you think you have something useful to contribute to math, write it up properly and submit to a proper journal, or even just present it here. Ranting about how everyone else is educated stupid and evil, unable to comprehend your revolutionary brilliance, or blind sheep is silly. We’re not all disagreeing with you because we’re ignorant or unable to follow your arguments; we’re all disagreeing with you because you’re extremely, demonstrably wrong.
Anyway, if we’re not going to talk about math anymore (I was enjoying the talk about mathematical logic, which is something I never got a decent background in), I’m done with this.
Problem is, you have not shown or proved me wrong.
Saying that I am wrong does not prove I am wrong.
Whereas I have demonstrably proven you are wrong.
But you deny everything. The truth is therefore not yet revealed to the world.
The unrevealed truth I am referring to concerns the number …99999.99999…
What is it?
The only truth known so far is that it is not equal to 0 and that
is what I have demonstrated here. If you claim that it is equal to 0
that is your error. You should provide the context where the two numbers
…99999.99999…
…00000.00000…
are the same even though all the digits are different. But you refuse to do it.
I understand that you cannot provide this context if there is no such a context.
But in that case you should not claim the numbers are the same.
Every digit being different means in that case the numbers are not same.
Just like 2 ≠ 1 if there is no context where they are the same.
Well, I tried. (What is about simple, basic, settled concepts like 0.999…, special relativity, and so on that causes some people to insist that they’ve discovered a truth that will revolutionize the world, and to complain that no one takes them seriously because everyone else is ignorant and closed-minded?)
You missed the point. The point I was trying to make was simple: the field of mathematics has come to a clear, overwhelming consensus on this topic. Like almost any other field of research, if you’re coming in with something that goes against the grain this much, especially something which seems so blatantly obvious, you need to self-reflect a little - “is the fact that nobody else realized this based on me understanding some part of the issue nobody understood before, or based on me having some serious flaws in my reasoning?” I don’t think you’ve done that. The next step is to take it to people who know a thing or two about mathematics - professors, graduates, or failing that, just write a paper and submit it to the relevant AMS journal. Send it past the people who know the field inside and out to check for flaws and errors.
(Granted, at this point you’re extremely likely to just get laughed out of the room, but the point is that this is the procedure you need to follow. This is how standard mathematical and/or scientific discoveries are tested and published. Going on message boards or the press and asserting “I HAVE SOME NEW THEORY WHICH OVERTURNS A MASSIVELY ACCEPTED EXISTING PARADIGM” is the realm of pseudoscientific cranks. And making excuses like “I don’t need the fame” gains you no credibility.)
A nonsensical form of writing “Infinity”. A number with an infinite number of decimal places right of the dot at least makes sense - it’s a real number which can at least be placed, to some degree of accuracy, on a number line. A number with an infinite number of decimal places before the dot is simply infinite, and this is a particularly odd way of writing “infinity”. I’m not even sure the number there is defined in any terms other than “infinity” - to quote wiki, “used to denote an unbounded limit”. There is no real or complex number greater than …999.999…; just like there is no real or complex number greater than limx->inf. They’re the same thing; just that yours doesn’t make any sense. Similarly, this number:
Is quite possibly even more nonsensical, because you just don’t write numbers that way. You don’t write 002394, you write 2394. You don’t write 0.2391000, you write 0.2391. The number described there is syntactically nonsensical, but in effect is equal to zero. Just like the above is an unnecessarily complex way of writing “infinity”, this is an unnecessarily complex way of writing “0” Do you have any idea what you’re talking about?
Because it’s asinine! An infinite row of digits to the right of the decimal point behaves fundamentally differently to an infinite row of digits to the left of the decimal point. Why? Because the former is constrained. No number of digits right of the decimal point will increase the total amount right of the decimal point to more than 1. The latter is not - each digit you add further to the left of the decimal point increases the limit of the number. 4 digits left of the decimal point -> max = 9999.99… = 10000. 5 digits left of the decimal point -> max = 99999.99… = 100000. Et cetera.
To make it simpler, the row (0.9, 0.99, 0.999, 0.9999, …) graphs out asymptotically to x = 1. It converges - the further along the row you get, the closer it comes to a certain result, and the the closer the derivative of the graph moves to 0.
The row (9, 99, 999, 9999, …) graphs out exponentially to x = inf. It diverges - the further along the row you get, the further it accelerates towards infinity, and the closer the derivative of the graph moves to infinity.
The row (0, 00, 000, 0000, …) is just nonsensical.
This analogy you’re trying to apply simply makes no sense.
I think just about everyone when they hear that .999… = 1, or that two observers can both think the other person’s clock is running slow, or that it’s worth swapping boxes in the Monty Hall problem…respond initially with incredulity.
Especially if we can think of a way to describe the situation that seems on the face of it to support our intuitions. But most of us go with the assumption that maybe there’s something we’ve failed to grasp, and continue to study.
But for others, their progress stops there, as they dig in, and refuse to listen to explanations of why they might be wrong. I don’t think 7777777 has responded to any of the proofs on the wiki, for example. S/he just said that they were not real proofs and left it at that.
Earlier you have said that two numbers are different if their decimal representations have different digits. Correct? For example 1.0 and 0.999… have a different digit in the tenth position.
Above you say that 1/3 is not the same as 0.333… Which digit of the decimal representation of 1/3 is different than the corresponding digit of 0.333…?
> Perhaps it would be a huge deal to write a journal. But why I should seek such
> a fame? I don’t need a respect from people. I seek truth and knowledge.
> I am satisfied with that.
If you don’t seek fame and don’t need respect from people and only seek truth and knowledge, why did you even bother to post to this board? The point of posting to a message board like this is to convince other people, to get their respect, and have them pass on what you say to other people, so that you can get fame. If you truly only care about truth and knowledge without caring about whether anyone else in the world agrees with you, a message board is useless. If you instead care about whether someone somewhere learns about your ideas, this message board isn’t the right place to post. Even if someone here became convinced of your ideas (and so far no one has), they can’t do anything about it. We have no power in the world. We’re not the secret council of mathematicians who control the world. We’re just a bunch of people who like to talk about interesting ideas.
If you want to convince mathematicians of your ideas, write them up and submit them to a journal. If you can convince any editor at any mathematical journal to publish such an article, you will have gotten much further toward convincing other people than posting to this message board could ever get you. Furthermore, if you truly think that mathematicians are deliberately ignoring your earthshaking discoveries, what would work far better is to self-publish your ideas. Give speeches about them. Start a political movement about them. Create a religion around them. Eventually you will get so much power that you can convince your followers to kill all mathematicians because they refuse to listen to your wonderful ideas. That’s not a particularly likely scenario, I suppose, but it’s more likely than the chance that you’ll ever convince us.
This is your argument in a nutshell, It is not math - it is religion.
You could substitute proof of God’s existence for the math and continue on from there using exactly the same words.
They still would not convince people. One person’s made-up religion seldom does.
For the rest of the world, however, there is a difference between math and religion. Every single person who understands math, regardless of their other personal beliefs, will agree on every single proof. That’s why everybody arguing with you in this thread - a group of otherwise totally individual personalities - all are saying the same thing as one another. That’s what real math is, a language spoken by all.
You are not doing math. You are witnessing about your religion. And you are using that language, one that is wholly incompatible with math.
I think I understood an issue that nobody understood before.
The issue is infinity.
The unrevealed truth I am talking about concerns the number …9999.9999…
What it is?
I know I am repeating what I already said. I have told you that according to your
way of thinking this number represents infinity. Now you tell the same
thing. Look at my post #1247. I told there that you will end up at a difficulty
because you don’t anymore know what are you dealing with.
You want to know what is …9999.9999…, what it is equal to, is it equal
to infinity or zero.
I have told many times what we know about this number, we only know that
…99999 + 0.99999…= …99999.999999…
we don’t know what it is equal to, we don’t know if it is equal to 0 or infinity.
It is only product of your way of thinking that you think it represents infinity,
or that it equals to zero. It would equal to 0 only if 1=0.999999…
The truth about …99999.99999…has not been revealed to the world yet,
the reasons I have told also many times.
I have told you all many times, why do you think I could dare to challenge the
world if I did not know and understand what I am talking about.
You got it right that according to your way of thinking …9999.9999…is infinity.
You confirm what I predicted at my post #1247. I don’t say that your way of thinking is right, I just say that it is possible to arrive at your results on your way.
I agree that …0000.0000…= 0
I did not force you to provide a context where the two numbers
…999.999… and …000.000… are the same, because there is no such
a context. The only possibility is that these two numbers are not the same
so that
…999.999… ≠ …000.000… = 0
You have not yet proved yourself worthy of receiving the truth concerning
the number …99999.99999…
The truth is not my truth. Compare the Bible: “My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me. If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or whether I speak from Myself.”