# 9mm vs .45acp Go! **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 11, 2011, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9mm-vs-45acp-go/570998 "2011-02-11T06:47:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9mm-vs-45acp-go/570998/41 "2011-02-12T02:42:22Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > I was in an interesting discussion where a number of ladies were having this discussion. The need for a _smaller_ weapon they could carry all the time in a purse or on their person was pronounced. > All in all, the .22LR Beretta **Tomcat** or the .25 **Bobcat** seemed to be big winners when fitted with a really neat laser aiming aid. (It is so small! Fits in modified grips of all things.) If I had to buy a gun for the lady in my life, it would be the Tomcat. I say this however having never even fired the fool thing. The Beretta \*\*Tomcat \*\*is a 32 caliber, it is a nice gun, and kinda smallish, but it is very big compared to the Beretta **Jetfire**. The Beretta **Jetfire** is smaller than either the Beretta **Bobcat** or the Beretta **Tomcat**. The **Tomcat** is thicker, and the **Tomcat** is almost as big as a small compact 9mm. As far as the **Bobcat** and **Jetfire** , experts will say that the centerfire 25 is inherently more reliable than a 22 rimfire, and the bullet damage done by a 22 or 25 is about equal, so for self defense get the 25 not a 22. The Beretta **Jetfire** is much smaller, and thinner, than both the\*\* Tomcat\*\* and the **Bobcat**. The Beretta \*\*Jetfire \*\*is one of the smallest/lightest reliable carry guns ever manufactured while still having great self-defense firepower being a 9 shot. It has the flip barrel for easy loading or manual ejecting, it is the easiest/simplist to clean, and it is pretty safe to carry with its 2 safeties (halfcock and sidelever) . If you put a\*\* Jetfire\*\* in your ladies hand, she will choose it. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9mm-vs-45acp-go/570998/42 "2011-02-12T03:06:17Z")
If you’re just shooting at a gun range, caliber is entirely down to personal preference (I would imagine). For home defense purposes (excluding that most people seem to advocate a shotgun of some sort), then it comes down to hard data. From what I could tell, the big factors for home defense are stopping power and that the bullet doesn’t penetrate through too many walls (and potentially kill a neighbor). The .40 S&W seemed to take the title for stopping power, and the other is solved (if you care about it) by buying a frangible bullet, not be choosing a particular caliber. Of course, a frangible bullet probably doesn’t have the stopping power of a regular one, so you’ll just have to choose which of these two items you care about more. Either way, between 9mm or .45, I’d choose .40 S&W. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9mm-vs-45acp-go/570998/43 "2011-02-12T03:20:18Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > The .40 S&W seemed to take the title for stopping power, > > Either way, between 9mm or .45, I’d choose .40 S&W. Actually, it is the\*\* 357 Magnum\*\* that takes the title for **stopping power** , with the added bonuses of the 357 handling a much wider \*\*verstatility \*\*of cartridges from 38 wadcutter or shotshells, all the way up to 200 grain 357 handloaded, as well as the 357 magnum having inherently more **reliability** as a revolver(no feed problems, no failure to chamber, no failure to eject, no stovepipes, no spent shell casings left at the scene, etc) ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9mm-vs-45acp-go/570998/44 "2011-02-12T04:24:22Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > Actually, it is the\*\* 357 Magnum\*\* that takes the title for **stopping power** , with the added bonuses of the 357 handling a much wider \*\*verstatility \*\*of cartridges from 38 wadcutter or shotshells, all the way up to 200 grain 357 handloaded, as well as the 357 magnum having inherently more **reliability** as a revolver(no feed problems, no failure to chamber, no failure to eject, no stovepipes, no spent shell casings left at the scene, etc) It looks like, when I did my research, I was mostly looking at the BPW and AIT values (which seem to be closely related), rather than the OSS – which, while based on real world data, has to be based on a fairly small sample. It looks like you are correct. While it depends on the manufacturer, the best 357 is better than the best .40 S&W. > **[.357 Magnum | Performance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/357_Magnum#Performance)** > > This cartridge is regarded by many as an excellent hunting, metallic silhouette, and self-defense round.\[citation needed\] With proper loadings it can also be effective against large or dangerous game, such as bear and ungulates.\[citation needed\] The .357 Magnum has less energy than the larger magnum revolver loadings but is smaller in diameter with high velocity allowing for excellent penetration properties. It is a fine small- and medium-game round and is sufficient to hunt deer at reasonable ra... > **[.40 S&W | Performance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.40_S%26W#Performance)** > > The .40 S&W cartridge has been popular with law enforcement agencies in the United States, Canada, Australia, and Brazil. While possessing nearly identical accuracy, drift and drop as the 9mm Parabellum, it has an energy advantage over the 9mm Parabellum and .45 ACP, and a more manageable recoil than the 10mm Auto cartridge. Marshall & Sanow (and other hydrostatic shock proponents) contend that with good jacketed hollow point bullets, the more energetic loads for the .40 S&W ca Based on the ideal... > **[9 mm caliber](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9mm#Performance)** > > This is a list of firearm cartridges that have bullets in the 9 millimeters (0.35 in) to 9.99 millimeters (0.393 in) caliber range. > All measurements are given in millimeters, followed by the equivalent in inches between parentheses. > **[.45 ACP | Performance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_ACP#Performance)** > > The .45 ACP is an effective combat pistol cartridge. It combines accuracy as well as stopping power for use against human targets, has relatively low muzzle blast and flash, and it produces moderate recoil in handguns (made worse in compact models or with hot loads). > The .45 ACP is generally considered to have greater stopping power than the 9mm.\[citation needed\] Due to its larger size and slower velocity it creates a larger wound channel and transfers more energy to the target. > The standard-iss... ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Krebbs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5fc32e/32.png) [@Mr.Krebbs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Krebbs)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9mm-vs-45acp-go/570998/45 "2011-02-12T04:57:36Z")
I like my 1911s in 45ACP. I like my Glocks in 9mm. I’m not a fan of double-stack 45s; I tend to have a hard time manipulating the controls without significantly altering my grip. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9mm-vs-45acp-go/570998/46 "2011-02-12T06:15:30Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > It’s pretty clear from the recent fiasco in Arizona that the 9mm does not have sufficient power. Never take a 9mm to do the job of a 45 ACP. Dude, really!? Too soon I think. Since we’re talking about smaller calibers, I like 9x18 (Makarov). Between 9x17 (aka .380) and 9x19 (9mm Parabellum/Luger), closer to the latter in power. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9mm-vs-45acp-go/570998/47 "2011-02-12T06:29:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **Susanann** > Actually, it is the 357 Magnum that takes the title for stopping power, with the added bonuses of the 357 handling a much wider verstatility of cartridges from 38 wadcutter or shotshells, all the way up to 200 grain 357 handloaded, as well as the 357 magnum having inherently more reliability as a revolver(no feed problems, no failure to chamber, no failure to eject, no stovepipes, no spent shell casings left at the scene, etc) > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > It looks like, when I did my research, I was mostly looking at the BPW and AIT values (which seem to be closely related), rather than the OSS – which, while based on real world data, has to be based on a fairly small sample. > > It looks like you are correct. While it depends on the manufacturer, the best 357 is better than the best .40 S&W. And we can complete the trifecta of gun forum feuds by debating whether Messrs. Marshall & Sanow or Dr. Fackler were more correct on terminal ballistics and bullet lethality. Extra points to the first one to start talking about goats… I want to get into bullseye shooting for fun someday, and the rules used to be that you needed a .45. Ergo, I voted for the .45. (I probably read a little too much Col. Cooper too, once upon a time.) If I ever want to do IPSC, a .45 is pretty much the definition of “Major”, whereas I thought you really had to torture a 9mm to get it to make Major? Further, a .45 will always be .45, even if it doesn’t expand—though I’m not sure just how much the extra .1 inch over 9mm FMJ really matters—and the sectional density on 230 gr. assures good penetration whether or not the bullet expands. For home defense, I firmly agree with Larry Correia’s statement that all handguns suck, so I’ll default to the usual, ‘whichever one you can shoot and are more willing to practice with is the better one for you.’ [Cornered Cat](http://www.corneredcat.com/) is supposed to have excellent ideas on concealed carry for women: cover garments, holsters, fit considerations, purchasing tips, etc… As far as v. tiny concealable handguns go, I thought that was the province of [Kel-Tec](http://www.keltecweapons.com/) and [Bersa](http://www.bersa.com/)? (For those w/o the funds for [Rohrbaugh](http://www.rohrbaughfirearms.com/) or [Kahr](http://www.kahr.com/).) I’d certainly rather have a .380 than a .25, God forbid ever needing to use either. The [.32 NAA](http://www.naaminis.com/32naa.html), while proprietary, looks like an interesting package. Basically, it’s a .380 necked down to .32, with higher energies and penetration than either. No idea what it’s like to shoot, though. Of course, for high penetration, few small handguns compare to the [7.62 X 25](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62x25mm_Tokarev) ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9mm-vs-45acp-go/570998/48 "2011-02-12T06:44:57Z")
Ghost, What do a Rohrbaugh or Kahk have that a Bersa or Kel-Tec don’t to justify the price? ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9mm-vs-45acp-go/570998/49 "2011-02-12T07:07:55Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > Ghost, > > What do a Rohrbaugh or Kahk have that a Bersa or Kel-Tec don’t to justify the price? I’ve shot none of the above, so I’m just repeating what I’ve been told or have read. Mostly, for Rohrbaugh, it’s the sheer tiny-ness of the thing—a half inch shorter in height and width than the Kel-Tec PF-9. I’ve no hard data on reliability or accuracy for Rohrbaugh or Kahr vs Kel-Tec. Certainly the ~$850 a Rohrbaugh costs over a Kel-Tec buys a whole lot of practice ammo and gunleather. I don’t know if the Milt Sparks rig comes with the pistol or not. My guess is that Rohrbaugh is made in a lot smaller quantities than Kel-Tec, and that tends to drive the price up too. Their promotional literature on-line mentions a lot of hand-finishing; I’ve no idea if that actually improves reliability or accuracy, but it’s a nice excuse for the price disparity. This[.pdf of an article on their site](http://www.rohrbaughfirearms.com/pdf/american_hangunner_july_09-1.pdf), from American Handgunner, mentions sub 3 inch accuracy at 25 yds. Now there are lies, damned lies, and stuff written in gun magazines, but even if halfway true, that’s still impressive (if overkill for the purpose) from something so tiny. If you buy one, save some money (if you’ve any left) to swap out the recoil springs every **100** rounds. Per the article, they sell for $5, but still… So, my\* guess\* is perceived increases in reliability, durability (other than the recoil springs, LOL), and accuracy, in addition to the half inch dimensional gains, are what you get for the very increased $$. I’d be interested in hearing opinions and comparisons from people who’ve actually shot/carried them. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9mm-vs-45acp-go/570998/50 "2011-02-12T15:42:55Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > For home defense, I firmly agree with Larry Correia’s statement that all handguns suck, While that is certainly true, at the same time, 3 25 ACP bullets shot into somebody’s eye and 2 more shot into their mouth, is going to HURT!!! him like the dickens! I know big strong men who will fall down and cry for something as trifling as their tooth breaking in half down to the root from getting hit by a screwdriver, or even if somebody just shoves a ball point pen into their eye. 9 25ACP bullets shot into your face is not going to be fun, and at the very least, could permanently blind you. Remember, in most self defense situations, the object is to run away and anything that slows down/hampers/hinders/blinds your assailant makes all the difference in the world. You dont “need” to actually kill him with 1 single shot, all you need to do is to be able to get away. Criminals do not want to get hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9mm-vs-45acp-go/570998/51 "2011-02-12T16:59:46Z")
I’ve no experience with the Rorbaugh, but I’ve fired several Kahrs and own a PF-9. The really small 9mm pistols give up a lot in terms of comfort and practical accuracy in order to achieve small size. Recoil is unpleasant. Site radius is short. They are pistols that the average owner will find so unpleasant and frustrating that practice with them will be brief and seldom. Further, they are known to be much more finicky about ammo than their larger counterparts (which is also true of very compact .40’s and .45’s) and are unforgiving of not being properly lubed. IMO, many of the people carrying these tiny 9mm’s would be much better served with a j-frame sized .38 special. These are very easily concealed, have a wealth of gunleather available, and are far less unpleasant to shoot. Moreover, they are extrememly forgiving about lubrication and cleaning and are not the least bit finicky about ammo. They do share the short sight radius issue and they hold only five rounds, but in my experience that is a better than even trade-off for essentially flawless reliability and better practical accuracy. The .38 is a perfectly good defensive round, especially in some of the premium loadings and the revolver will give you your pick of them. In one of the tiny automatics you may well find yourself settling for what the gun will run over what you would prefer. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9mm-vs-45acp-go/570998/52 "2011-02-12T18:14:52Z")
I chose the .45 for purely practical reasons. Back when, the Army issued me a 1911 for my duty weapon, so I have a lot of experience with the 1911/.45 combo. I owned a Taurus PT-99 (Beretta 92F clone), and it is a fine gun, but I’m not a large guy, and the grip size was a bit awkward, even with strong hands. For me, not so much with the 1911/.45 combo. The slide release is a bit of a reach for my thumb, but not nearly as much as it was on the -99. Even though I’m a bit of a traditionalist wrt the .45ACP, I have considered a 1911 frame chambered in .357. I know my hands are strong enough for the recoil, and I think the 1911 frame is heavy enough to mitigate recoil, and the smaller diameter bullet would allow a higher magazine capacity without needing to resort to a wider grip. And I could hopefully push the cheaper .38 Special through it to save on ammo costs. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9mm-vs-45acp-go/570998/53 "2011-02-12T21:24:39Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > Even though I’m a bit of a traditionalist wrt the .45ACP, I have considered a 1911 frame chambered in .357. I know my hands are strong enough for the recoil, and I think the 1911 frame is heavy enough to mitigate recoil, and the smaller diameter bullet would allow a higher magazine capacity without needing to resort to a wider grip. > > And I could hopefully push the cheaper .38 Special through it to save on ammo costs. The few autoloading pistols that fire the .357 Magnum will not feed .38 Special ammo. Also, what you get in diameter reduction you more than give up in length, as the .357 Mag is significantly longer that the stubby .45 ACP, and because it is rimmed probably won’t feed from a double stack magazine anyway. If you really want higher capacity and (low end) .357 Mag like performance you should look at the .357 Sig (a .40 S&W necked down to take a 9mm bullet). Your other option is the .45 GAP, which has nearly identical ballistics to the .45 ACP in an even stubbier cartridge, but it can only be had on the Glock platform and is therefore effectively proprietary. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9mm-vs-45acp-go/570998/54 "2011-02-12T22:13:54Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Dude, really!? Too soon I think. > > Since we’re talking about smaller calibers, I like 9x18 (Makarov). Between 9x17 (aka .380) and 9x19 (9mm Parabellum/Luger), closer to the latter in power. I just thought that I should get it in right away as Congresswoman Giffords is starting to speak and I don’t want her stepping on my punch line trying to get votes. A 9mm to the head apparently can’t stop a liberal from demanding socialized toast. Oh, and these posts are intended to be tasteless jokes, not anything else. :rolleyes: I wouldn’t want to see a “conservative” shot at. I don’t want to see anything that makes John Boehner cry. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9mm-vs-45acp-go/570998/55 "2011-02-12T23:25:14Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Of course, a frangible bullet probably doesn’t have the stopping power of a regular one, so you’ll just have to choose which of these two items you care about more. Why wouldn’t it? I thought that expanding rounds meant you’re depositing more energy and gouging a wider wound channel in the target. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9mm-vs-45acp-go/570998/56 "2011-02-13T00:40:16Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Why wouldn’t it? I thought that expanding rounds meant you’re depositing more energy and gouging a wider wound channel in the target. I’m very far from an expert (let alone a gun nut), but I got the impression that the rounds lose most of their power at first contact, so while the full impact is imparted, it’s on the surface – like a really hard punch – rather than internally. It does penetrate, and will likely still be lethal, but it doesn’t have the same guts-to-pulp action that an expanding bullet creates. I’m not sure whether this is entirely a property of the bullet, or if they are generally lower velocity rounds as well. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9mm-vs-45acp-go/570998/57 "2011-02-13T00:47:24Z")
I should also note that frangible bullets don’t seem to really decrease the odds of secondary deaths by all that much. Unless your walls are made of something pretty dense – which isn’t true for most – it’ll still go through. Your best bet, in that regard, is that most of the world is empty space. It’s unlikely enough that you’ll hit your target when you’re actually aiming at him, let alone hitting someone else. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9mm-vs-45acp-go/570998/58 "2011-02-13T01:10:49Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Why wouldn’t it? I thought that expanding rounds meant you’re depositing more energy and gouging a wider wound channel in the target. Fragmenting (not just expanding) bullets tend to create craterous surface wounds but don’t penetrate deep enough to assure damage to vital organs or the central nervous systems. This means that the guy you just pumped four Glaser Safety Slugs into who is still coming at you despite looking like a particularly sorry ghoul may bleed out or die of infection, but meanwhile he’s still a threat to your life and comfort, whereas a single JHP or roundnose that punches through the braincase, severs the forebrain or spinal cord, goes through the heart or lungs, or shatters the hip or femur will put an assailant out of action but quick. Penetration is key to effectively stopping an attacker. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9mm-vs-45acp-go/570998/59 "2011-02-13T02:17:26Z")
> [@Cluricaun](#): > > Tried to edit but missed it. > > The chart in that Wiki link is really interesting. The .500SW is an absolute monster, 2,600 foot pounds of force at the muzzle? Jesus christ. > [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I shot one once. Absolute monster. > > And completely impractical. Unless you intend to hunt big animals with it. I’ve never even _heard_ of anyone getting shot with the S&W 500. The rounds are Jacketed Flat Point (a variation of Soft Point semi-jacketed rounds with exposed lead noses). I presume that gives the optimim penetration/stopping power for the heavy game the 500 is marketed for, but for a human you’d want hollowpoint or even something like shotshell rounds. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9mm-vs-45acp-go/570998/60 "2011-02-13T04:19:58Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Fragmenting (not just expanding) bullets tend to create craterous surface wounds but don’t penetrate deep enough to assure damage to vital organs or the central nervous systems. This means that the guy you just pumped four Glaser Safety Slugs into who is still coming at you despite looking like a particularly sorry ghoul may bleed out or die of infection, but meanwhile he’s still a threat to your life and comfort, whereas a single JHP or roundnose that punches through the braincase, severs the forebrain or spinal cord, goes through the heart or lungs, or shatters the hip or femur will put an assailant out of action but quick. Penetration is key to effectively stopping an attacker. > > Stranger You make it sound so neat, so technical, but you may be onto something. The thing is that when you shoot at someone in a selfdefense situation your only objective is killing the other guy. I can’t imagine selecting my ammo as to be suboptimal in the “killing” department due to other considerations. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9mm-vs-45acp-go/570998.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/9mm-vs-45acp-go/570998.md?page=4)