9mm vs .45acp Go!

[Gray_Ghost]

@Lumpy

I’ve never even heard of anyone getting shot with the S&W 500. The rounds are Jacketed Flat Point (a variation of Soft Point semi-jacketed rounds with exposed lead noses). I presume that gives the optimim penetration/stopping power for the heavy game the 500 is marketed for, but for a human you’d want hollowpoint or even something like shotshell rounds.

Not a .500, buthere is a case involving an ND with a .454 Casull. Guy ended up discharging the pistol into his own leg, where, according to his attorney, “It blew a 5- by 8-inch hole out of the front side of his leg.” The unfortunate man ended up losing the leg below the knee.

Another shooter ended up taking off half of his thumb, just from the gases escaping from the cylinder gap of a .460 S&W XVR. No idea how he was holding the pistol in order to do that, and had no idea you could even cause that kind of injury when shooting.

[Stranger_On_A_Train]

@Aji_de_Gallina

You make it sound so neat, so technical, but you may be onto something.
The thing is that when you shoot at someone in a selfdefense situation your only objective is killing the other guy. I can’t imagine selecting my ammo as to be suboptimal in the “killing” department due to other considerations.

Correction: your only objective is “stopping” (i.e. incapacitating) your attacker. It happens that the best methods and physiological targets for incapacitation also correspond to a high degree of lethality (penetration through the head, spine, heart, and lungs). Fragmentation and large wound cavities may make for irreducible wounds that are ultimately lethal via bleed-out or infection, but a shot through the lungs or the heart will stop an attacker in a few seconds, and one through the brainstem or spine will drop them where they stand. Shoot to stop, and keep shooting until they are no longer a threat (have surrendered, are on the ground no longer wielding a weapon, are missing vital parts of their respiratory or motion control system). As a defender, maintaining cover and stopping the attacker is your first concern. The fewer shots you or anyone else has to fire to accomplish this, the fewer stray rounds or ricochets in the environment and the less hazards to bystanders and yourself.

Stranger

[Stranger_On_A_Train]

@Gray_Ghost

Another shooter ended up taking off half of his thumb, just from the gases escaping from the cylinder gap of a .460 S&W XVR. No idea how he was holding the pistol in order to do that, and had no idea you could even cause that kind of injury when shooting.

He doubtless was holding the frame with the non-shooting hand forward of the cylinder the same way you would hold a carbine or large submachine gun. And yes, a very powerful jet of gas escapes from the tiny gap between the chamber and the frame, shaped by that gap into a cutting and severing field. In fact, small non-guillotine-type severing devices work on a very similar principle of developing high pressure within a chamber that is relieved only by exhaust through a small slit. This is sometimes used for standoff severing of fabric rope like Spectra and Vectran when a guillotine or fingertrap cutter isn’t practical, and can cut thicknesses of up to 0.25" diameter of those materials with margin.

Stranger

[Aji_de_Gallina]

@Stranger_On_A_Train

Correction: your only objective is “stopping” (i.e. incapacitating) your attacker. It happens that the best methods and physiological targets for incapacitation also correspond to a high degree of lethality (penetration through the head, spine, heart, and lungs). Fragmentation and large wound cavities may make for irreducible wounds that are ultimately lethal via bleed-out or infection, but a shot through the lungs or the heart will stop an attacker in a few seconds, and one through the brainstem or spine will drop them where they stand. Shoot to stop, and keep shooting until they are no longer a threat (have surrendered, are on the ground no longer wielding a weapon, are missing vital parts of their respiratory or motion control system). As a defender, maintaining cover and stopping the attacker is your first concern. The fewer shots you or anyone else has to fire to accomplish this, the fewer stray rounds or ricochets in the environment and the less hazards to bystanders and yourself.

Stranger

Agreed on the “stopping” rather than “killing” and the rest too.

[Czarcasm]

@The_Second_Stone

I just thought that I should get it in right away as Congresswoman Giffords is starting to speak and I don’t want her stepping on my punch line trying to get votes. A 9mm to the head apparently can’t stop a liberal from demanding socialized toast.

Oh, and these posts are intended to be tasteless jokes, not anything else. :rolleyes: I wouldn’t want to see a “conservative” shot at. I don’t want to see anything that makes John Boehner cry.

[Moderator Note]And I don’t want to see posts like this in IMHO-quit threadshitting.[/Moderator Note]

[control-z]

Nothing against .45 but prefer 9mm due to cost and magazine capacity.

[Chopper9760]

.45 over 9mm any day of the week and twice on Sundays. I don’t need 17 shots if I put a .45 caliber hole in something.

Another big shout out for the 10mm.

I’m a midget. I have a .45 and I love it to pieces but if I shove it down the back of my jeans, folks will notice. I carry a Colt .380 and one of these days I’ll lay hold of a J-frame S&W .357, I’d rather not leave casings behind anyway.