# A 26-stroke golf penalty!?!?!? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 1, 2010, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-26-stroke-golf-penalty/559129 "2010-11-01T21:08:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fried_Dough_Ho)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2010, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-26-stroke-golf-penalty/559129/1 "2010-11-01T21:08:45Z")
[Poor guy…](http://www.thegolfchannel.com/tour-insider/imada-penalized-26-strokes-40178/) > [@](#): > > HAIKOU, China –Ryuji Imada was penalized 26 strokes in the first round of the Mission Hills Star Trophy on Saturday. > > Imada received 13 separate two-stroke penalties because, like Dustin Johnson at the PGA Championship, he failed to read the local rules sheet. > > Due to the soft state of the Blackstone course, players were allowed to lift, clean and place their balls. Imada assumed this meant within one club length of the original position, as is standard procedure on the PGA Tour. > > However, the European and Asian Tours use the length of one scorecard as a measurement. It wasn’t until the 12th hole that fellow competitor Danny Lee noticed Imada was breaking the rule and informed him. > > After the round, Imada conferred with tournament director David Parkin. He could not remember exactly how many times he had broken the rule, but took an educated guess that it was a maximum of 13. > > Parkin accepted that figure and instructed Imada to add 26 strokes and sign for a 24-over 97. > > “I’m an idiot,” said Imada, who admitted he had not read the local rules sheet. > > Without the penalties, Imada would have been tied for the lead in the 36-hole event being contested by 18 professionals – nine men and nine women. > > Imada wasn’t the only player to screw up. Nick Faldo was disqualified for picking up his ball after missing a putt at the eighth hole. > > Evidently, he forgot that the pro-celebrity format includes a professional only competition. He didn’t realize the mistake until after teeing off at the next hole by which time it was too late to rectify. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2010, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-26-stroke-golf-penalty/559129/2 "2010-11-01T21:22:21Z")
> [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](#): > > “Due to the soft state of the Blackstone course, players were allowed to lift, clean and place their balls.” Heh. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-26-stroke-golf-penalty/559129/3 "2010-11-02T20:29:28Z")
Isn’t a caddy supposed to keep you from doing dumb shit? ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-26-stroke-golf-penalty/559129/4 "2010-11-02T20:48:24Z")
If it makes Ryuji feel any better, he still would’ve beaten me. I haven’t cracked 100 in over 2 years. ---
**Author:** ![sevenwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@sevenwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sevenwood)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-26-stroke-golf-penalty/559129/5 "2010-11-02T22:25:35Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > Isn’t a caddy supposed to keep you from doing dumb shit? Yes. If you incur a 26-stroke penalty because your caddy wasn’t paying attention to the rules that you should also have been paying attention to, you’re allowed to whop him upside the head. Actually, you’re pretty much allowed to whop him upside the head anytime you want. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-26-stroke-golf-penalty/559129/6 "2010-11-02T23:26:04Z")
> [@sevenwood](#): > > Yes. If you incur a 26-stroke penalty because your caddy wasn’t paying attention to the rules that you should also have been paying attention to, you’re allowed to whop him upside the head. > > Actually, you’re pretty much allowed to whop him upside the head anytime you want. That would be a 2 stroke penalty. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-26-stroke-golf-penalty/559129/7 "2010-11-03T00:22:57Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > That would be a 2 stroke penalty. for over-clubbing ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-26-stroke-golf-penalty/559129/8 "2010-11-03T00:40:54Z")
[QUOTE=Imada] He could not remember exactly how many times he had broken the rule, but took an educated guess that it was a maximum of 13. [/QUOTE] He’s honest. [QUOTE=Imada] “I’m an idiot,” said Imada, who admitted he had not read the local rules sheet. [/QUOTE] Brutally honest. ---
**Author:** ![smoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@smoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smoke)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-26-stroke-golf-penalty/559129/9 "2010-11-03T01:26:09Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > If it makes Ryuji feel any better, he still would’ve beaten me. I haven’t cracked 100 in over 2 years. I was thinking the same thing. Damn. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-26-stroke-golf-penalty/559129/10 "2010-11-03T13:06:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Imada assumed this meant within one club length of the original position, as is standard procedure on the PGA Tour. > > However, the European and Asian Tours use the length of one scorecard as a measurement. It wasn’t until the 12th hole that fellow competitor Danny Lee noticed Imada was breaking the rule and informed him. Bit of a hijack, but, one _club length_? Really? (I originally read that as a club-_head_ length, and was going to ask how that differs practically from a scorecard length.) But it seems as if, in many cases, one could dramatically improve one’s lie by moving the ball an entire club length. Is that covered in the rules, say, you can’t move the ball from rough to fairway even if the distance is allowable? Also, different clubs are different lengths. How do they decide which club? ---
**Author:** ![sevenwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@sevenwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sevenwood)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-26-stroke-golf-penalty/559129/11 "2010-11-03T13:14:31Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > Also, different clubs are different lengths. How do they decide which club? They’re allowed to use any club in their bag (except, I believe, any long-shafted putter). Everyone uses their driver, as it’s traditionally the longest club of the rest. Could you carry a longer-than-usual driver in your bag so as to take maximum advantage of that rule? Sure, but then it would be lousy as a driver and that would hurt you more than any lift-clean-replace advantage it would give you. > [@Wheelz](#): > > But it seems as if, in many cases, one could dramatically improve one’s lie by moving the ball an entire club length. Is that covered in the rules, say, you can’t move the ball from rough to fairway even if the distance is allowable? Well, as a practical matter improving your lie is the whole **point** of lift-clean-place. 🙂 There are limitations as to where you can place your ball, but players regularly (and legally) improve their lie within those rules. ---
**Author:** ![Paintcharge](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paintcharge/32/7946_2.png) [@Paintcharge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paintcharge)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-26-stroke-golf-penalty/559129/12 "2010-11-03T14:53:54Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > But it seems as if, in many cases, one could dramatically improve one’s lie by moving the ball an entire club length. Is that covered in the rules, say, you can’t move the ball from rough to fairway even if the distance is allowable? Also, different clubs are different lengths. How do they decide which club? In general, you can only lift clean and place if you are in the fairway, and one club length, **no closer to the hole.** ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-26-stroke-golf-penalty/559129/13 "2010-11-03T14:59:12Z")
> [@Paintcharge](#): > > In general, you can only lift clean and place if you are in the fairway, and one club length, **no closer to the hole.** Ah. That makes much more sense. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-26-stroke-golf-penalty/559129/14 "2010-11-05T19:10:27Z")
> [@sevenwood](#): > > They’re allowed to use any club in their bag (except, I believe, any long-shafted putter). Everyone uses their driver, as it’s traditionally the longest club of the rest. Could you carry a longer-than-usual driver in your bag so as to take maximum advantage of that rule? Sure, but then it would be lousy as a driver and that would hurt you more than any lift-clean-replace advantage it would give you. > > Well, as a practical matter improving your lie is the whole **point** of lift-clean-place. 🙂 There are limitations as to where you can place your ball, but players regularly (and legally) improve their lie within those rules. Some of the belly putters are longer than the driver. You can use them for measuring. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-26-stroke-golf-penalty/559129/15 "2010-11-05T19:53:27Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > Ah. That makes much more sense. It still occasionally allows for players to obtain a much improved lie. For example, I remember a case a few years ago where Mike Weir hit an approach shot that ended up slightly short of the green. He had just the edge of a sand trap between his ball and the hole. They were playing lift, clean, and place, so he was able to move his ball far enough to the side so that the trap was no longer in his way, leaving a much easier shot. This type of thing has given rise to the phrase “lift, clean, and _cheat_”. When playing under this rule, doing this type of thing is completely legal, but the rule does seem to go against the basic “play it as it lies” idea of golf.