# A better man than me **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 10, 2008, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-better-man-than-me/476529 "2008-12-10T07:20:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-better-man-than-me/476529/21 "2008-12-10T15:59:23Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Did I pat myself on the back? I’d like to pat you somewhere. 😉 Dude, I know you love your children, probably more than your wife. His response to this disaster is commendable to say the least. ---
**Author:** ![vd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b19c9b/32.png) [@vd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vd)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-better-man-than-me/476529/22 "2008-12-10T16:53:55Z")
It’s clear that the pilot waited as long as he could before ejecting. You can see in [this graphic](http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20081209/images/crash.html) and [this map](http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&t=h&msa=0&msid=103867461056717802370.00045db3c496ce531bfd6&ll=32.860844,-117.184639&spn=0.031651,0.065575&z=14) that he came down only a couple of streets away from the plane. It looks like he veered to the north off his approach path to try to get to open canyon. My WAG is that another half a second of lift and the plane would have cleared those last few houses. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-better-man-than-me/476529/23 "2008-12-10T17:39:14Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Did I pat myself on the back? Very well then: say rather that after you have stood where this man stands, acted as he has acted, and spoken as he has spoken, it will then be time enough to argue about the height of the bar of virtue. Meanwhile, I would feel terrible if I’d been flying this plane, no matter what anyone told me or my reason told myself, and the generous forgiveness of the bereaved party would be a blessing of worth beyond rubies. But I’m just a sentimental old bugger. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-better-man-than-me/476529/24 "2008-12-10T17:43:54Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t see the difference. You . . . don’t see the difference between a situation where your family is killed and an ordinary situation? > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Are you saying you would make irresponsible accusations if your family was killed? I’m saying grief often makes people act irrationally. As everyone in this thread but you seems to understand. ---
**Author:** ![Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crown_Prince_of_Irony)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-better-man-than-me/476529/25 "2008-12-10T18:39:04Z")
Of course I see his remarks as courageous and even heroic - I’ve got a lump in my throat just reading about it. I cannot imagine what I would do in such a circumstance - but I can be sure I would not be giving a second thought to the suffering of the pilot, at least not the very next day. What a gentle and touching sentiment from someone grieving so deeply. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-better-man-than-me/476529/26 "2008-12-10T19:23:52Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t see the difference. > > Are you saying you would make irresponsible accusations if your family was killed? What we’re saying is that, if our entire family, spanning three generations, had just been annihilated in an instant, our first reaction would probably not be, “Hey, I hope the pilot is okay!” That this man, in the depths of this tragedy, still has the compassion to worry about the guy who survived the crash speaks to a remarkable depth of spirit. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-better-man-than-me/476529/27 "2008-12-10T19:24:06Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > You . . . don’t see the difference between a situation where your family is killed and an ordinary situation? Between what is rational and what is not? No I don’t. > [@](#): > > I’m saying grief often makes people act irrationally. As everyone in this thread but you seems to understand. Sure it does. That doesn’t mean it’s “heroic” NOT to act irrationally. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-better-man-than-me/476529/28 "2008-12-10T19:25:36Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > What we’re saying is that, if our entire family, spanning three generations, had just been annihilated in an instant, our first reaction would probably not be, “Hey, I hope the pilot is okay!” That this man, in the depths of this tragedy, still has the compassion to worry about the guy who survived the crash speaks to a remarkable depth of spirit. Where does the story say that was his FIRST reaction? Itwould be rather bizarre and creepy if it was FIRST reaction. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-better-man-than-me/476529/29 "2008-12-10T19:32:34Z")
Another couple of people who are better than most of us - my second-cousin, [John Bergen, and his wife Eloise.](http://www.thetimesnews.com/news/bergen_20337___article.html/john_eloise.html) They are missionaries to Kenya who were brutally attacked there by their own guards. > [@](#): > > both were attacked by five men carrying machetes. > The men left John Bergen’s body outside the farmhouse where he and his wife were living, thinking he was dead. Inside, they raped and otherwise attacked his wife… > > The Bergens were attacked July 9, when the culprits found him outside the farmhouse. Both of his arms were broken, his legs were slashed by machete blades and his jaw was broken in five places. > “One of the (machete) blows went through my skull,” Bergen said, but didn’t reach his brain. > The men left Bergen’s body on the ground after he passed out. > Though his wife’s experience was more grueling emotionally, Bergen said, her physical injuries were less severe. She left the house and found his body after the attacks, managed to get him in a car, and drove to a nearby guest house… > > But probably nothing is more remarkable than the Bergens’ attitude toward the men who attacked them. They are praying they will be able to speak to the men and tell them they have forgiven them. > “Justice has to run its course,” Bergen said. “But so does forgiveness.” I know this family - they are just like that. They might be completely out to lunch in their Christian beliefs, but they’re willing to live their lives by their beliefs even when it gets tough, and I completely respect them for that. ETA: I just wanted to clarify I know the family, not these two particular individuals. They are typical of the family, is what I’m trying to say. ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-better-man-than-me/476529/30 "2008-12-10T19:58:33Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Where does the story say that was his FIRST reaction? Itwould be rather bizarre and creepy if it was FIRST reaction. Well what do think it fucking was? Burn the fucking world to a crisp? The point is he had the FUCKING balls to put his own hate and fears ASIDE and think about others, namely the his extended family and the pilot who in the end, caused this horrific tragedy. You know, **Dio** , I’m starting to wonder about you. And I’m sure you could give a shit less (about how I feel about you), and don’t think I’m judging you, but dude, there was a day when I thought you gave a shit about people. Don’t let the hardness of the world infect you. Man, your humanity is all you have. I’ve known drug dealers, enforcers, convicts of every variety, and man, some days, you’re one of the hardest mother fuckers I’ve ever seen. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-better-man-than-me/476529/31 "2008-12-10T20:18:36Z")
I think maybe I’m being misunderstood here. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with being concerned about the pilot. I’m just saying I don’t think it’s all that extraordinary. I think most people would be. I’d probably say something similar (minus the praying part) aftr I recovered from the catatonia I would suffer from losing my wife and kids. On the bright side, the crash also took out his mother-in-law. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-better-man-than-me/476529/32 "2008-12-10T20:23:55Z")
It’s an incredibly sad situation. My wife knows the family slightly, as they attend the same church. From looking at that Google map up yonder it looks like the plane came down about 3 miles south west of where I’m sitting right now. That’s kinda scary, as he was heading in this direction at the time. It’s weird that I didn’t hear anything when it happened; you’d think that would be pretty loud. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-better-man-than-me/476529/33 "2008-12-10T20:33:25Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > On the bright side, the crash also took out his mother-in-law. 🆒 Too soon! 😛 I don’t know where I come down in this argument, but Yoon’s heart is in the right place. Even if it’s not “beautiful,” it’s big of him to think of the pilot at this point. What a terrible situation for everybody. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-better-man-than-me/476529/34 "2008-12-10T20:45:25Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I think maybe I’m being misunderstood here. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with being concerned about the pilot. I’m just saying I don’t think it’s all that extraordinary. I think most people would be. I’d probably say something similar (minus the praying part) aftr I recovered from the catatonia I would suffer from losing my wife and kids… Well, then maybe that’s the problem. You _are_ a better man than most of the rest of us here in this thread, because it seems that’s _not_ probably what the bunch of us would inititially think or say. I mean, if you just want to use the sample size you’ve got and all. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-better-man-than-me/476529/35 "2008-12-10T21:23:31Z")
Nice post, **featherlou**. Reminds me of Amy Biehl’s parents, who befriended the young men who killed her in a township in South Africa. She was there working for social justice and was driving a black friend home when her car was stopped, and she was dragged out and stabbed and bludgeoned to death, for being white in that neighborhood. Her parents forgave the young men, went to great lengths to go and meet them, and I think petitioned to have them released from prison. Yowza. ETA- [Here’s the story](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amy_Biehl). ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-better-man-than-me/476529/36 "2008-12-10T21:48:36Z")
> [@Omegaman](#): > > Well what do think it fucking was? Burn the fucking world to a crisp? The point is he had the FUCKING balls to put his own hate and fears ASIDE and think about others, namely the his extended family and the pilot who in the end, caused this horrific tragedy. You know, **Dio** , I’m starting to wonder about you. And I’m sure you could give a shit less (about how I feel about you), and don’t think I’m judging you, but dude, there was a day when I thought you gave a shit about people. Don’t let the hardness of the world infect you. Man, your humanity is all you have. I’ve known drug dealers, enforcers, convicts of every variety, and man, some days, you’re one of the hardest mother fuckers I’ve ever seen. Don’t mind Dio. Yoon is leaning hard on his Christian faith to get him through this tragedy, Dio reflexively attacks, dismisses and belittles anyone who demonstrates any faith at all. What you’re seeing is just Dio being Dio. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-better-man-than-me/476529/37 "2008-12-10T21:54:19Z")
What does Christian faith have to do with anything? I didn’t even know the dude was a Christian. > [@](#): > > Dio reflexively attacks, dismisses and belittles anyone who demonstrates any faith at all. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2008, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-better-man-than-me/476529/38 "2008-12-10T22:00:03Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#): > > Miramar is not on the coast, and a runway landing is infinitely preferable to a water ditch. He was very close to making the runway. But North Island NAS is. He could have headed there instead of Miramar. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-better-man-than-me/476529/39 "2008-12-11T00:43:59Z")
He may have passed it too quickly and couldn’t/didn’t want to try and make the turn? If only one engine was out at that time, trying for Miramar might have made sense. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-better-man-than-me/476529/40 "2008-12-11T07:00:56Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I think maybe I’m being misunderstood here. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with being concerned about the pilot. I’m just saying I don’t think it’s all that extraordinary. I think most people would be. Would they? Maybe, but a great many don’t act rationally. It seems a pretty human reaction to want to blame someone. It is commendable that Yoon acting rationally. Still, I don’t think he’s anywhere close to being a hero and the OP is a bit over the top. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-better-man-than-me/476529.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-better-man-than-me/476529.md?page=3)