# A big thread about consent **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 9, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-big-thread-about-consent/804051 "2017-12-09T21:20:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-big-thread-about-consent/804051/101 "2017-12-19T17:25:45Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > In a moment of life imitating the message board, I recently sat in a meeting with some co-workers as one guy started commenting on the blouse that a female team member was wearing. He didn’t just do it once, he said it, then came back to the topic and commented further that it matched her earings, etc… It became clear to everyone that the attention was becoming unwelcome. Do you think that guy would make the same drawn out comments on a shirt that a man in the office was wearing? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-big-thread-about-consent/804051/102 "2017-12-19T17:33:49Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Do you think that guy would make the same drawn out comments on a shirt that a man in the office was wearing? Nope. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-big-thread-about-consent/804051/103 "2017-12-19T17:40:36Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Nope. My point. He treats women and men differently. He wouldn’t comment that much on a male coworkers shirt, so he shouldn’t do it to a female coworker. Easy. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-big-thread-about-consent/804051/104 "2017-12-19T17:55:06Z")
Personally, I find it best to avoid commenting (in the office) about women’s appearance at all, ever. Not that there’s a serious risk in most cases, but it’s not like I have this compelling need to make such comments to begin with (I rarely comment about men’s appearance either, unless they’ve made some dramatic change, e.g. grown a beard or something) so even a tiny risk is not worthwhile. And plus, I’d rather not have to bother contemplating whether or not some remark might be taken the wrong way - much easier to just avoid the whole thing altogether. At any rate, ISTM that the plethora of diverging opinions refutes those who like to give their opinions some added weight by stating “what’s so hard to understand?” or the like, thereby implying that those who disagree with them are fools who can’t understand simple things. Because it’s not about anything being difficult to understand - rather, that different people see these things differently, and despite what you might personally think is a clear line between OK and not OK, the person you’re speaking to might happen to be someone who sees things differently. So the issue is really about coming up with a code that minimizes the likelihood that at some point you’ll encounter someone who draws the line in a very different place than you do (keeping other consideration in balance as well). ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-big-thread-about-consent/804051/105 "2017-12-19T17:58:07Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Personally, I find it best to avoid commenting (in the office) about women’s appearance at all, ever. Not that there’s a serious risk in most cases, but it’s not like I have this compelling need to make such comments to begin with (I rarely comment about men’s appearance either, unless they’ve made some dramatic change, e.g. grown a beard or something) so even a tiny risk is not worthwhile. And plus, I’d rather not have to bother contemplating whether or not some remark might be taken the wrong way - much easier to just avoid the whole thing altogether What if a woman grew a beard? Would you comment then? 😉 > [@](#): > > So the issue is really about coming up with a code that minimizes the likelihood that at some point you’ll encounter someone who draws the line in a very different place than you do (keeping other consideration in balance as well). Don’t comment on people’s clothing at work seems like a sensible part of such a code. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-big-thread-about-consent/804051/106 "2017-12-19T18:00:37Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > What if a woman grew a beard? Would you comment then? 😉 Exactly. Like “great move, this way if this job doesn’t work out you can always try the circus …” ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-big-thread-about-consent/804051/107 "2017-12-19T18:28:02Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > What are you, the fucking Census Bureau? This can be a cultural thing. I know when I go to Asia, people ask me when I was born to establish seniority. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-big-thread-about-consent/804051/108 "2017-12-19T18:32:56Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > The solution to these problems is quite simple, stop listening to the segregationists. I don’t treat people the same regardless of ‘race’ because I know that ‘race’ is an artificial concept intended to divide people and justify inequality. Here’s a simple test to see if someone is really racist, ask them about a person they know with a skin color different than theirs. Describe that person in any way you like but don’t provide their name or their skin color. If they don’t have any idea who you are talking about until you say something like “And he’s black” then you’ll see that they really view that person as first belonging to another ‘race’ before all other things. Your test only works for white people. If you start describing a white person to a minority, we will likely know who you are talking about even if see race before other things. If you start describing a black person to an Asian or vice versa, they will STILL know who you are talking about even if we are very race conscious. This is just how we are conditioned in America. I don’t think this is a very good test. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-big-thread-about-consent/804051/109 "2017-12-19T19:32:09Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Apparently, he thinks men buy lunch for female coworkers but not male coworkers. It is not uncommon for managers to buy lunch for subordinates. But I haven’t bought lunch on a gratuitous basis for female colleagues in a long time (I think it was right around the time I got married). ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-big-thread-about-consent/804051/110 "2017-12-19T19:32:52Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > My point. He treats women and men differently. He wouldn’t comment that much on a male coworkers shirt, so he shouldn’t do it to a female coworker. > > Easy. Yep. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-big-thread-about-consent/804051/111 "2017-12-19T19:35:09Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > This can be a cultural thing. I know when I go to Asia, people ask me when I was born to establish seniority. How are they handling this subject? I imagine they’ve long since solved it to everyone’s satisfaction. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-big-thread-about-consent/804051/112 "2017-12-19T19:37:32Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > It is not uncommon for managers to buy lunch for subordinates. But I haven’t bought lunch on a gratuitous basis for female colleagues in a long time (I think it was right around the time I got married). That’s true, but that is a manager treating everyone to lunch - equally. The question initially raised was “When you and a female co-worker get lunch, do you pay for only your own meal?” as if paying for a female co-workers lunch was something people actually did. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-big-thread-about-consent/804051/113 "2017-12-19T19:45:34Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Dude, a date is entirely different than an office. Don’t touch co-workers, as a general rule (aside from instances of safety and immediate danger). That’s incredibly easy to do. Dude :rolleyes:, the post I was responding to does not appear to have been about the workplace, it appears to be referencing “life” > [@](#): > > A date is entirely different. It’s okay to try to initiate physical contact with a date – that’s one of the primary purposes of a date, in face… to see if physical chemistry is possible. > > This seems awfully hard for so many folks to get. What’s going on right now in society and politics isn’t about bad behavior on dates. It’s about bad behavior at work, or on movie sets, or in government offices, or in work meetings, etc. I’m unaware of any sexual assault or groping or harassment scandal that stem from behavior on a date. :smack::smack::smack: This is a big thread about consent. Is there something somewhere that said this thread is about #me too? The OP seems to address dates as part of the universe of consent situations to be discussed. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-big-thread-about-consent/804051/114 "2017-12-19T20:09:10Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Dude :rolleyes:, the post I was responding to does not appear to have been about the workplace, it appears to be referencing “life” It talked about a touch to a co-worker’s shoulder, and you responded that putting your hand around someone’s shoulder _during a date_ might be a problem. But if you meant something else, okay. > [@](#): > > :smack::smack::smack: > > This is a big thread about consent. Is there something somewhere that said this thread is about #me too? The OP seems to address dates as part of the universe of consent situations to be discussed. Discuss dates all you want, and consent with regards to dates. But if you have concerns about consent during dates with regards to mild physical contact, then you’re missing the moment, IMO. None of the criticism of celebrities or pols or whomever are about mild physical contact during a date. I don’t see why anyone would have concern about trying to initiate mild physical contact during a date based on the surrounding events and news related to this issue. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-big-thread-about-consent/804051/115 "2017-12-19T20:31:02Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Do you think that guy would make the same drawn out comments on a shirt that a man in the office was wearing? I have definitely made comments about a man’s sweater and then kept coming back to it (when those Coogi sweaters first came out). Several of us kept coming back to it just to tease him for the rest of the day whenever there was a meeting. He had taken off the sweater by 2 pm. I suspect he went home and cried while burning the sweater. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-big-thread-about-consent/804051/116 "2017-12-19T20:37:50Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I have definitely made comments about a man’s sweater and then kept coming back to it (when those Coogi sweaters first came out). Several of us kept coming back to it just to tease him for the rest of the day whenever there was a meeting. He had taken off the sweater by 2 pm. I suspect he went home and cried while burning the sweater. A couple things here. First, what the hell is wrong with you? Second, would you do that to a woman? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-big-thread-about-consent/804051/117 "2017-12-19T20:43:41Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > How are they handling this subject? I imagine they’ve long since solved it to everyone’s satisfaction. Yes, they ask what year you were born, you ell them and then one of you might start addressing the other in a form of honorific if there is a sufficient age difference. Men and women use different honorifics when addressing older men and women. Women have taken to using the honorifics that a man would use when addressing an older man while continuing to use the honorific a woman would use when addressing an older woman. Its a work in progress. Despite the recent election of a female President, there is still a significant gender disparity in that makes gender disparities here seem trivial. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-big-thread-about-consent/804051/118 "2017-12-19T20:44:45Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > That’s true, but that is a manager treating everyone to lunch - equally. > > The question initially raised was “When you and a female co-worker get lunch, do you pay for only your own meal?” as if paying for a female co-workers lunch was something people actually did. I am slightly more inclined to pay for a younger colleague if that colleague is a woman. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-big-thread-about-consent/804051/119 "2017-12-19T20:48:32Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It talked about a touch to a co-worker’s shoulder, and you responded that putting your hand around someone’s shoulder _during a date_ might be a problem. > > But if you meant something else, okay. > > Discuss dates all you want, and consent with regards to dates. But if you have concerns about consent during dates with regards to mild physical contact, then you’re missing the moment, IMO. None of the criticism of celebrities or pols or whomever are about mild physical contact during a date. I don’t see why anyone would have concern about trying to initiate mild physical contact during a date based on the surrounding events and news related to this issue. I dunno. You included dates in your OP. The point I was trying to raise was the notion that dating and sex are so much more casual today than when I was dating that miscommunications are almost certain to occur. Everything seems to be happening so much faster. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-big-thread-about-consent/804051/120 "2017-12-19T20:49:39Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I am slightly more inclined to pay for a younger colleague if that colleague is a woman. And why is that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-big-thread-about-consent/804051.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-big-thread-about-consent/804051.md?page=7)