# A Book With A Character Of Undetermained Gender **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 7, 2009, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-book-with-a-character-of-undetermained-gender/480202 "2009-01-07T07:28:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-book-with-a-character-of-undetermained-gender/480202/21 "2009-01-07T17:01:29Z")
Eh, I gotta say I think you’re shooting yourself in the foot with this one. I’ve seen a lot of guides for writers recommend against the unnamed/genderless protagonist device. It’s not that this could not possibly be used well, but that it almost never is. It seems to be generally regarded as a show-off trick used by amateurs. See [Points #6 and #18 here](http://www.sfwa.org/writing/mistakes_allen.htm), for instance. The only reasonable work-around I see is to make the story first-person. The baby wouldn’t know its own name and wouldn’t care what sex it is, so it’s natural that the subject wouldn’t arise. But if you want to write it in the third person, you’re going to be stuck either always saying “the baby did this” and “the baby did that” or calling the baby “it” all the time and sounding like a serial killer. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-book-with-a-character-of-undetermained-gender/480202/22 "2009-01-07T17:10:03Z")
> [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](#): > > All of Sarah Caudwell’s books feature a main character (Hilary Tamar, who is also the narrator) whose gender is never revealed. Very funny books; I highly recommend them. > > ETA–It’s probably easier to do from the first person. ‘I’ has no gender. And you can tell entire stories without revealing a character’s name; plenty of authors have done so. See, e.g., Dashiel Hammett’s ‘Nameless Detective’ series, also told from the first person (although of course his gender is clear). You’re thinking of Bill Pronzini, not Hammett. I’m fond of ole Nameless, but he’s not worthy to shine Spade’s spats, or even the Continental Op’s. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-book-with-a-character-of-undetermained-gender/480202/23 "2009-01-07T17:27:58Z")
However, the Continental Op never was given a name, presumably the inspiration for Pronzini. Le Guin has said that if she were writing Left Hand of Darkness today she wouldn’t use “he” as the standard pronoun. Since that time lots of sf writers have invented pronouns to use for ambiguous or alien sexes. Any story not written from the standard first or third-person, past tense, has to be especially good to break through the barrier to the average reader. These are standard forms for good reason even though there are dozens of alternative ways to approach stories, all of which have been tried at times, some effectively and famously. The best way to write this particular story is to use an ambiguous baby name. Markxxx, why isn’t that an option for you? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-book-with-a-character-of-undetermained-gender/480202/24 "2009-01-07T17:45:04Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > However, the Continental Op never was given a name, presumably the inspiration for Pronzini. That’s why I mentioned him, in my usual needlessly-circuitous manner. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-book-with-a-character-of-undetermained-gender/480202/25 "2009-01-07T17:57:21Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > You’re thinking of Bill Pronzini, not Hammett. I’m fond of ole Nameless, but he’s not worthy to shine Spade’s spats, or even the Continental Op’s. Actually, I was thinking of the Continental Op, but was apparently very confused. :smack: But the Continental Op is never named. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-book-with-a-character-of-undetermained-gender/480202.md?page=1)