# A Boy and his Dog-- spoilers, women hunting and talking canines. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 4, 2006, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-and-his-dog-spoilers-women-hunting-and-talking-canines/367319 "2006-08-04T13:21:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-and-his-dog-spoilers-women-hunting-and-talking-canines/367319/41 "2006-08-07T03:32:53Z")
**BrainGlutton** : [The Last Dangerous Visions - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Dangerous_Visions) To make a long story short, back in the late '60s/early ‘70s, Ellison edited a series of SF anthologies. For the last one (The Last Dangerous Visions) he promised the authors for years that the book would, no really, be coming out Real Soon Now, with numerous excuses as to why it wasn’t out yet. Meanwhile he held control over the stories’ publication rights so that they couldn’t even be published elsewhere. A number of authors have died since then. ~30 years later, apparently he’s now admitting that yeah, maybe it’s not gonna be published, but previously even mentioning the title was supposedly a hell of a big button to push in him. Google Christopher Priest’s “The Last Deadloss Visions” for an excellent analysis (or look it up where it was published) - the Wiki article says that it was pulled off the net, but you never know with such things. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Rhosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@Sir\_Rhosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Rhosis)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-and-his-dog-spoilers-women-hunting-and-talking-canines/367319/42 "2006-08-07T03:47:58Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] He has celebrity appeal – at least within the SF fandom community. And a lot of people – justly or unjustly – consider Don Juanism a form of misogyny. I mean, if he doesn’t hate women, why can’t he form a lasting relationship with one? [/QUOTE] FTR, he’s been married to his current wife, Susan, since about 1985. Sir Rhosis ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2006, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-and-his-dog-spoilers-women-hunting-and-talking-canines/367319/43 "2006-08-13T23:55:39Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] He has celebrity appeal – at least within the SF fandom community. And a lot of people – justly or unjustly – consider Don Juanism a form of misogyny. I mean, if he doesn’t hate women, why can’t he form a lasting relationship with one? [/QUOTE] Isaac Asimov was beloved last time I checked. He was also known as a prolific chaser of skirts. Re Last Dangerous Visions If the contracts were worded in the standard way, the writers could not get those stories published anywhere else until they were published in LDV. Asimov wrote a Black Widowers mystery centering on a publisher buying a story and sitting on it (When No Man Pursueth). ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-and-his-dog-spoilers-women-hunting-and-talking-canines/367319/44 "2006-08-14T10:23:08Z")
SmartAleq writes: \> If he’s such a misogynist, why have literally THOUSANDS of women lined up to \> sleep with him–a geeky 5’3" writer with an intelligence and wit that’s out of \> ballpark? Dozens of women, maybe even a couple of hundred of them, but not thousands of them. It’s not unknown for an intelligent, manipulative man to get a gullible woman to fall for him. For each of his first four wives, Ellison got a reasonably pretty woman to accept his “I’m a brilliant writer” act for a couple of years, and then each of them left him when they got tired of him. His fifth marriage has lasted because he toned down his jerkiness when he realized that this might be the last chance he would ever get to have a young, pretty women marry him. He is, incidentally, a liar who can make up a story to impress a random person he’s just met on the spur of the moment. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-and-his-dog-spoilers-women-hunting-and-talking-canines/367319/45 "2006-08-14T11:18:34Z")
[QUOTE=Duke of Rat] Hey, you don’t run across too many telepathic dogs. [/QUOTE] “Woof” said Timmy 😛 ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-and-his-dog-spoilers-women-hunting-and-talking-canines/367319/46 "2006-08-14T13:53:58Z")
[QUOTE=DocCathode] If the contracts were worded in the standard way, the writers could not get those stories published anywhere else until they were published in LDV. [/QUOTE] It’s true that first publication rights are a standard provision of such contracts. However, Ellison was still soliciting contributions long after it became painfully obvious the book was never going to be published, and I understand Ellison has been extremely vindicative to contributors who have requested to be released from their contracts. It’s not the first time Ellison has ever been a jerk. In the introduction to \*The Other Glass Teat, \* Ellison concocted a cock-and-bull story about how the Nixon administration had conspired to suppress _The Glass Teat,_ apparently to cover up the book’s embarassingly poor sales in its first edition. (I’m embarassed to admit I swallowed the story hook, line and sinker.) He also has a reputation for ignoring deadlines outrageously. Ellison has practically made a career out of castigating others in publishing, film and television for their supposed lack of integrity, and then he goes and pulls stunts like this. I realize all of us are hypocrites to some degree, but this really is too much. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-and-his-dog-spoilers-women-hunting-and-talking-canines/367319/47 "2006-08-14T14:55:08Z")
[QUOTE=LonesomePolecat] In the introduction to \*The Other Glass Teat, \* Ellison concocted a cock-and-bull story about how the Nixon administration had conspired to suppress _The Glass Teat,_ apparently to cover up the book’s embarassingly poor sales in its first edition. (I’m embarassed to admit I swallowed the story hook, line and sinker.) [/QUOTE] How do you know it wasn’t true? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-and-his-dog-spoilers-women-hunting-and-talking-canines/367319/48 "2006-08-14T15:10:00Z")
[QUOTE=DocCathode] Isaac Asimov was beloved last time I checked. He was also known as a prolific chaser of skirts. [/QUOTE] !!! First I’ve ever heard of Dr. A cheating on his wife! Do you have a cite? ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-and-his-dog-spoilers-women-hunting-and-talking-canines/367319/49 "2006-08-14T15:46:03Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] How do you know it wasn’t true? [/QUOTE] Because no one else gives the story any credit whatsoever. In [The Last Dead Loss Visions,](http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:e-LGXHistocJ:sf.www.lysator.liu.se/sf_archive/sf-texts/Ansible/Last_Deadloss_Visions,Chris_Priest+ellison+glass+teat+nixon&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=23) Christopher Priest says: \*… ‘The Other Glass Teat’, although scheduled to appear soon after ‘The Glass Teat’ in 1970, was published only in 1975, with an introduction that claims that the book was essentially suppressed by the Vice President of the United States, a charge that would have made national headlines in that post-Watergate climate had anyone else credited it.\* I mistakenly stated that Ellison claimed the first \*Glass Teat \* was suppressed. The claim was actually made for _The Other Glass Teat_. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-and-his-dog-spoilers-women-hunting-and-talking-canines/367319/50 "2006-08-14T16:08:52Z")
[QUOTE=LonesomePolecat] Because no one else gives the story any credit whatsoever. [/QUOTE] [At least one does:](http://www.circlemagazine.com/issuethirtysix/ellison.html) > [@](#): > > Ellison wrote a large number of columns for the LA Free Press that were ostensibly about television and its effect on culture. The column was The Glass Teat and it ran during some of the most turbulent times this nation saw in the last century. The Vietnam War was in full swing and the counter-culture was in the process of birth. > > The columns were immensely popular and Ellison landed a deal to get them published in book form. Advance sales were fantastic. Reviews were great. It looked like it might hit the best seller list at one point. Then something happened. > > Sales simply died. Boxes of the books were returned unopened and places refused to stock the book or to order it. Why? No one knew. It just sort of, well, happened. > > Let me remind you of the times. This is when Richard Nixon was president. Spiro Agnew was vice-president. John Mitchell was the Attorney-General. Keep in mind that the only reason all three of the above named politicians are not also listed as convicted felons is because President Gerald Ford granted Nixon a blanket pardon. > > Ellison maintains and I believe he’s entirely accurate, that the word went out that it would be a fine thing if The Glass Teat books were not sold. Anyplace. We do know for a fact that the Nixon Administration kept an enemies list and that Ellison was on it. > > The book was impossible to get for many years until Pyramid brought out a series of Ellison’s works and produced a two volume version. Ellison’s forward to the Pyramid version is fascinating and worth the price of the book alone, but I’d advise you to read the columns as well. They have a lot to say that worth hearing and if you were born after 1960, you can get an incisive look at the times. That’s not proof, of course, but it makes sense. You wouldn’t put something like that past Nixon or Agnew, would you? IIRC, in his foreword Ellison claims the whole thing happened because, before the second volume was published, someone brought to Agnew’s attention a line from one of the columns in the first: "Spiro Agnew masturbates with copies of the _Reader’s Digest."_😃 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-and-his-dog-spoilers-women-hunting-and-talking-canines/367319/51 "2006-08-14T16:39:05Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] !!! First I’ve ever heard of Dr. A cheating on his wife! Do you have a cite? [/QUOTE] Mrs. Plant relates his grabbing and fondling women’s breasts at sci fi conventions. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-and-his-dog-spoilers-women-hunting-and-talking-canines/367319/52 "2006-08-14T16:54:19Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] [At least one does:](http://www.circlemagazine.com/issuethirtysix/ellison.html) That’s not proof, of course, but it makes sense. You wouldn’t put something like that past Nixon or Agnew, would you? IIRC, in his foreword Ellison claims the whole thing happened because, before the second volume was published, someone brought to Agnew’s attention a line from one of the columns in the first: "Spiro Agnew masturbates with copies of the _Reader’s Digest."_😃 [/QUOTE] Okay, now can you come up with an example of anyone who isn’t an Ellison fan who takes this story seriously? ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-and-his-dog-spoilers-women-hunting-and-talking-canines/367319/53 "2006-08-14T16:54:34Z")
According to the website quoted in BrainGlutton’s post: \> We do know for a fact that the Nixon Administration kept an enemies list and \> that Ellison was on it. Yes, there was an enemies list. Was Ellison on it? Cite? BrainGlutton writes: \> !!! First I’ve ever heard of Dr. A cheating on his wife! Do you have a cite? He discusses it in his autobiography. He says that he was faithful for the first 12 years or so of his first marriage to his first wife, although he was well-known for making remarks to other women (while his wife wasn’t there) about what he’s like to do with them. This was mostly passed off as being obnoxious humor. Finally one of the women took him up on his offer, and Asimov says that he had a number of affairs after that point. His first wife divorced in the early 1970’s, and soon he married his second wife. I don’t know if he cheated on her. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-and-his-dog-spoilers-women-hunting-and-talking-canines/367319/54 "2006-08-14T17:06:30Z")
[QUOTE=Wendell Wagner] Yes, there was an enemies list. Was Ellison on it? Cite? . [/QUOTE] Here’s a link to the [Nixon white house enemies list.](http://web.archive.org/web/20030621235432/www.artsci.wustl.edu/~polisci/calvert/PolSci3103/watergate/enemy.htm) Ellison’s name isn’t on it. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-and-his-dog-spoilers-women-hunting-and-talking-canines/367319/55 "2006-08-14T19:48:57Z")
[QUOTE=LonesomePolecat] Okay, now can you come up with an example of anyone who isn’t an Ellison fan who takes this story seriously? [/QUOTE] Ellison is an important science fiction author of the period, but I wouldn’t call myself a fan. I would be more likely to believe him (or anyone) than Nixon; but then I want to dig him up and be sure they drove a stake through his black heart before screwing down the lid. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2006, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-and-his-dog-spoilers-women-hunting-and-talking-canines/367319/56 "2006-08-14T20:03:04Z")
[QUOTE=carnivorousplant] Ellison is an important science fiction author of the period, but I wouldn’t call myself a fan. I would be more likely to believe him (or anyone) than Nixon; but then I want to dig him up and be sure they drove a stake through his black heart before screwing down the lid. 🙂 [/QUOTE] The fact remains that all we really have is Ellison’s account of what supposedly happened. Considering how widely and fiercely Nixon was hated, it is surprising that the left didn’t jump all over such an incident. It would have been a major scandal–not nearly as big as Watergate, to be sure, but more than enough to kick up a major stink. I’m highly skeptical that either Nixon or Agnew was even aware of Ellison’s existence. I maintain that Ellison most likely made up the story to cover up his embarassment over the book’s poor sales. I’ll continue to maintain that until someone comes up with independent verification of Ellison’s account. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Rhosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@Sir\_Rhosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Rhosis)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-and-his-dog-spoilers-women-hunting-and-talking-canines/367319/57 "2006-08-15T00:33:03Z")
I can’t verify this, but I sem to recall reading that Susan, Ellison’s current wife, was a bartender back home in Scotland before she went to see HE speak in England (this is where they met). So, probably, she’s one who has heard it all, and can take care of herself against the best of 'em. Sir Rhosis ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-and-his-dog-spoilers-women-hunting-and-talking-canines/367319/58 "2006-08-15T00:40:28Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] !!! First I’ve ever heard of Dr. A cheating on his wife! Do you have a cite? [/QUOTE] I’m 98% sure he confesses to it in his autobiography, _I, Asimov._ Twigged me out the first time I learned that the wholesome Dr. A wasn’t that wholesome. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-and-his-dog-spoilers-women-hunting-and-talking-canines/367319/59 "2006-08-15T00:54:43Z")
I happen to know the guy who more or less introduced Ellison and his wife Susan. This is Rog Peyton, who owned the (now closed) bookstore Andromeda Books in Birmingham, England. Rog told me that Susan was assisting him at his table in the dealers room at a science fiction convention in the U.K. (probably about 1983) where Ellison happened to be one of the guests of honor. Ellison came by to pick up some books that he had asked Rog (before the con) to order for him. Susan was busy with someone else and did not take it kindly when Ellison got obnoxious and demanded that she immediately get the books and ignore the other customers. She picked up the books he ordered and threw them at him. Ellison gasped at someone actually refusing to be cowed by his usual obnoxious behavior and said something like, “What are you doing the rest of the con? I want to get to know you.” And they’ve been together ever since. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-and-his-dog-spoilers-women-hunting-and-talking-canines/367319/60 "2006-08-15T02:02:12Z")
[QUOTE=Wendell Wagner] I happen to know the guy who more or less introduced Ellison and his wife Susan. This is Rog Peyton, who owned the (now closed) bookstore Andromeda Books in Birmingham, England. Rog told me that Susan was assisting him at his table in the dealers room at a science fiction convention in the U.K. (probably about 1983) where Ellison happened to be one of the guests of honor. Ellison came by to pick up some books that he had asked Rog (before the con) to order for him. Susan was busy with someone else and did not take it kindly when Ellison got obnoxious and demanded that she immediately get the books and ignore the other customers. She picked up the books he ordered and threw them at him. Ellison gasped at someone actually refusing to be cowed by his usual obnoxious behavior and said something like, “What are you doing the rest of the con? I want to get to know you.” And they’ve been together ever since. [/QUOTE] Sounds like the makings of a beautiful Harlequin romance. I’m going to start right on it. Don’t know how I’ll work in the part about women being good for eating, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-and-his-dog-spoilers-women-hunting-and-talking-canines/367319.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-and-his-dog-spoilers-women-hunting-and-talking-canines/367319.md?page=4)