# "A Boy Named Charlie Brown" is One F\*ed up Movie. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 27, 2010, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-named-charlie-brown-is-one-f-ed-up-movie/562051 "2010-11-27T04:46:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-named-charlie-brown-is-one-f-ed-up-movie/562051/41 "2010-11-30T21:21:03Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > Dunno if you were serious. Yes I was. In fact, I once thought about asking Dopers about it. As a kid, I would pick up Charlie Brown movies at the library. As an adult, I was almost sure I saw a story where Brown got a chance to really try and kick the football. Now, (thanks to you), I remember seeing that one. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-named-charlie-brown-is-one-f-ed-up-movie/562051/42 "2010-11-30T22:58:04Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I’ve got one word for you: > > [Roadhouse](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDURfLc9u0g) I have never seen that before and it’s awesome. I am now in a better mood. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2010, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-named-charlie-brown-is-one-f-ed-up-movie/562051/43 "2010-11-30T23:23:44Z")
In the strip the movie was based on, Charlie Brown screws up on an even easier word. He’s asked to spell MAZE. Baseball fan Charlie Brown spelled it MAYS. Poor little guy. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-named-charlie-brown-is-one-f-ed-up-movie/562051/44 "2010-12-01T01:56:56Z")
Robot Arm writes: \> True, but the best sports fiction goes against type. Rocky loses the big fight. Yeah, but remember that I wrote: \> Similarly, most American sports fiction has the underdog winning at the end. \> Sometimes it merely has him getting better at his sport and making a decent \> showing. The movie _Rocky_ is an example of the second sentence. Rocky Balboa at the beginning of the movie is someone who was a good fighter ten years before but who never reached his potential. He’s reduced to collecting debts for a loan shark. He’s thirty years old and has no wife or girlfriend. At the end he nearly beats the world champion. He has a girlfriend. He is much better off than he was at the beginning. (The sequels to _Rocky_ are junk that throw away all the good points of the first one.) Robot Arm writes: \> The Bad News Bears lose the championship game and get a lame apology from \> the winners, then they pop open some beers and tell the other team to go \> screw themselves. Another example of my second sentence. In the beginning, the Bad News Bears are so poor at baseball that they can’t even manage to finish a game without the score passing the maximum difference allowed so that they have to end the game early. At the end the team narrowly loses the local championship, and they only lose it because the coach decides to make sure that everybody on the team gets to play. They get to drink the beer because the coach wants to show them that he’s proud of their improvement and that it’s not necessary to be the champions to be happy with how well they play. The members of the team learn that even if they are misfits and oddballs they can be proud of themselves. The message is pretty similar to that of _Rocky_. (The sequels to _The Bad News Bears_ are also junk that throw away anything interesting from the first movie.) ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-named-charlie-brown-is-one-f-ed-up-movie/562051/45 "2010-12-01T02:27:55Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > \> Similarly, most American sports fiction has the underdog winning at the end. > \> Sometimes it merely has him getting better at his sport and making a decent > \> showing. > > The movie _Rocky_ is an example of the second sentence. > > … > > Another example of my second sentence. Are they any examples of your first sentence, though? My point was that the really great sports fiction always goes against type. The hero loses at the end. (There’s also _The Hustler_; a tragedy where the hero wins.) Are there any great sports stories where the hero wins? And I think you miss half the message of _The Bad News Bears_. It isn’t just that the Bears can be proud of what they’ve done; it’s that they can look at the Yankees, the assholes who made fun of them earlier, and spit in their eye and tell them they don’t give a flying fuck what they think of them. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-named-charlie-brown-is-one-f-ed-up-movie/562051/46 "2010-12-01T13:20:33Z")
O.K., let’s look at a list of the greatest sports movies. Here’s one example of such a list: [http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/galleries/the\_25\_greatest\_sports\_movies\_ever/the\_25\_greatest\_sports\_movies\_ever.html](http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/galleries/the_25_greatest_sports_movies_ever/the_25_greatest_sports_movies_ever.html) (Please note that I am not agreeing with the ranking in this list. I’m just using it because it was the only list of great sports sports I could find in a quick search. So, everyone, please restrain your snideness and don’t tell me I’m an idiot for thinking that these are great movies.) _Jerry Maguire_: The hero wins the girl. The athlete he represents turns out to be a first-rate player. _Talladega Nights_: I think this is about a winner who remains at the top of his field, but I haven’t seen it and don’t know for sure. _Rudy_: This is apparently about an underdog who succeeds at the end, but I haven’t seen it and don’t know for sure. _Heaven Can Wait_: The hero apparently will get the girl. He wins the game. The villains get arrested for murder. _Brian’s Song_: There isn’t actually much said about sports in this film. Everybody learns to be tolerant. The hero dies bravely. I haven’t seen this. _Remember the Titans_: The team wins the championship. I haven’t seen this. _The Longest Yard_: They win the game. The villain is exposed as a jerk. _Miracle_: They win the gold medal. I haven’t seen this. _The Bad News Bears_: Already discussed. _The Pride of the Yankees_: There isn’t actually much said about sports in this film. The hero dies bravely. I haven’t seen this. _Eight Men Out_: Cheating will get you thrown out of the sport. _Chariots of Fire_: Underdog heroes win the gold medal. _Hoop Dreams_: The heroes make it into college. _The Hustler_: Already discussed. I haven’t seen this. _A League of Their Own_: The heroines make it as professional athletes. The coach learns to be a decent person. _Field of Dreams_: This isn’t really about sports. The hero gets a chance to reconnect with his father. _Major League_: Underdogs win (I think). I haven’t seen this film. _Breaking Away_: Underdogs win. _Caddyshack_: Underdogs win. _The Natural_: The hero gets a chance to show how great he could have been if he hadn’t lost his chance when younger. _Bull Durham_: The hero learns that he eventually has to move on from playing baseball to coaching it and that he will never get his chance to play major-league baseball. He wins the girl. _Slap Shot_: The underdogs win the game, although they know that the team will be broken up. _Rocky_: Already discussed. _Hoosiers_: Underdogs win the state championship. The hero wins the girl and becomes a decent person. _Raging Bull_: Probably the closest to a downbeat film. The hero is briefly the champion. He screws up everything. At the end he’s learning to be a decent person though. None of these is as deeply unhappy as Charlie Brown’s life in _Peanuts_. He loves baseball, but he is never even an acceptable Little League player. O.K., I’ve just gone out of my way to give examples. If you’re going to disagree with me, please provide examples. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-named-charlie-brown-is-one-f-ed-up-movie/562051/47 "2010-12-01T16:13:14Z")
None of these is as unhappy? I suggest you see _Hoop Dreams_ again. It’s dire. (In a great way.) Yeah, the kids go to college, but their lives are pretty depressing and they don’t succeed in basketball and various members of their families die… ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-named-charlie-brown-is-one-f-ed-up-movie/562051/48 "2010-12-01T17:30:44Z")
What I wrote was “None of these is as deeply unhappy as Charlie Brown’s life in _Peanuts_.” Notice the word “deeply.” Charlie Brown’s life is worse in some ways even than the two basketball players whose lives are shown in the movie _Hoop Dreams_. They make it to college. They don’t become professional basketball players, but how is that a terrible thing? Yeah, the guys in _Hoop Dreams_ have miserable home lives, but they succeed despite it. And _Hoop Dreams_ is probably the second most depressing movie in the list after _Raging Bull_. I think I’ve shown with this list that there are a lot of sports movies where the hero wins in the end (and usually gets the girl too). Charlie Brown never wins a game at all and never gets the girl. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-named-charlie-brown-is-one-f-ed-up-movie/562051/49 "2010-12-01T17:41:16Z")
And, for what it’s worth, _Hoop Dreams_ didn’t choose for its subjects some of the worst victims of the whole business of good but not great high school basketball players trying in vain to play college ball and make it in the pros. If it really wanted to do that, it could show somebody who spent all his childhood trying to be a great basketball player, despite the fact that it should have been clear that he didn’t quite have what it took. It would show him doing O.K. but not good enough in high school games so that it was clear that he couldn’t make it in college ball. He would spend so much time on basketball practice that he would flunk all his courses. Having given up on basketball and desperate for any job after dropping out, he would then become a drug dealer. The movie would end with him dead after a shoot-out with the police. That’s the sort of real-life happiness that is virtually never seen in a movie. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-named-charlie-brown-is-one-f-ed-up-movie/562051/50 "2010-12-01T17:54:53Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > IMHO, what the animated Peanuts did best was make kids go apeshit over Snoopy. The self absorbed ass hole of the comic strip turned into a lovable little elf perfect for merchandising. Sir, you have insulted an American icon. I demand satisfaction! ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-named-charlie-brown-is-one-f-ed-up-movie/562051/51 "2010-12-01T18:05:29Z")
I wrote: \> . . . real-life happiness . . . I meant: \> . . . real-life unhappiness . . . And this is why it’s necessary to proofread carefully. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-named-charlie-brown-is-one-f-ed-up-movie/562051/52 "2010-12-01T18:06:46Z")
I’ve always found the Peanuts strip amusing. That doesn’t diminish my opinion that Schulz was completely fucked in the head. The “woe is me” personality of Charlie Brown is depressing as are the strange & mean spirited traits of most of the other characters. > [@Zebra](#): > > The football? I wanted him to kick LUCY in the face! Check [THIS](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGTNj2BEaaM) out. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-named-charlie-brown-is-one-f-ed-up-movie/562051/53 "2010-12-01T21:33:58Z")
The beauty of the Charlie Brown baseball sequences isn’t that Charlie’s team always loses. It’s the interpersonal dynamic among the players. Lucy is lazy, apathetic, and stupid, and spends her time in the outfield gossiping with her girlfriends. That doesn’t stop her from pouring scorn on Charlie’s limited leadership and pitching skills, at every opportunity. None of the other players have any confidence in Charlie Brown at all; in every situation, they expect him to fail (and comment loudly on the fact), and he always does. And yet, none of them ever make a move to take over as pitcher or manager. That would be too much work, and too much risk. Without being told, we know that if Charlie failed to organize the team one spring, it would cease to exist. Often this dynamic is seen in life itself. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2010, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-named-charlie-brown-is-one-f-ed-up-movie/562051/54 "2010-12-01T21:43:44Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > IMHO, what the animated Peanuts did best was make kids go apeshit over Snoopy. The self absorbed ass hole of the comic strip turned into a lovable little elf perfect for merchandising. Snoopy is the figurative Ewok of _Peanuts_. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-named-charlie-brown-is-one-f-ed-up-movie/562051/55 "2010-12-02T02:00:18Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > None of the other players have any confidence in Charlie Brown at all; in every situation, they expect him to fail (and comment loudly on the fact), and he always does. And yet, none of them ever make a move to take over as pitcher or manager. That would be too much work, and too much risk. Without being told, we know that if Charlie failed to organize the team one spring, it would cease to exist. Actually that’s not quite true. The team had at least four other managers and/or pitchers. At different times, Linus, Lucy, Peppermint Patty and even Snoopy subbed for Charlie Brown. When Linus took over as pitcher (I believe that was when CB had “little leaguer’s elbow” and wasn’t physically able to pitch), the team went on a winning streak. Lucy pitched for a little while, something Schroeder despised because she kept calling him up for meetings on the mound, ending with a kiss. Snoopy was manager at one time – I don’t remember how that came about, but I think it was connected to his being a “superstar” – and his style of managing was pretty harsh. (Whenever someone screwed up, he’d kick 'em.) Eventually he got crabbier and crabbier, and CB offered to take over again, resulting in Snoopy’s delighted hug. (Peppermint Patty took over at one point, too, but I don’t remember the circumstances.) Not that your main point isn’t correct. I’m just being a pedantic _Peanuts_ fan. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-named-charlie-brown-is-one-f-ed-up-movie/562051/56 "2010-12-02T03:35:29Z")
> [@choie](#): > > (Peppermint Patty took over at one point, too, but I don’t remember the circumstances.) > > Not that your main point isn’t correct. I’m just being a pedantic _Peanuts_ fan. Shortly after she was introduced into the strip, Peppermint Patty joined Charlie Brown’s team as a pitcher to help them out. She ended up quitting in frustration after she pitched a no-hitter but still lost because the rest of the team gave up 37 unearned runs. Yeah, I’m another pedantic Peanuts fan (I had most of the strip collections as a kid.) ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-named-charlie-brown-is-one-f-ed-up-movie/562051/57 "2010-12-02T16:51:34Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > Shortly after she was introduced into the strip, Peppermint Patty joined Charlie Brown’s team as a pitcher to help them out. She ended up quitting in frustration after she pitched a no-hitter but still lost because the rest of the team gave up 37 unearned runs. Ha! Yes, of course, I can’t believe I forgot about that. Actually I was talking about her as manager – didn’t she run the team at some point? Maybe when Charlie Brown ran away (and started to manage that team of teeny tiny kids)? Or maybe I really am confusing that with the time she pitched that no-hitter. Is that when she brought along Jose Peterson? I know she did some bossing around at that point – even providing her own chatter. Then there was the time Charlie Brown was so enamored of winning that he traded his own dog, much to everyone’s horror. > [@](#): > > Yeah, I’m another pedantic Peanuts fan (I had most of the strip collections as a kid.) Me too! I have most of the Fawcett paperbacks printed in the mid-sixties/early seventies with strips dating back to some of the earliest, when Lucy was a few years younger than Charlie Brown, Patty & Shermy, and Linus and Schroeder were toddlers. And then the strips where Sally was born – love those. Hm. This makes me ponder their ages. Not that _Peanuts_ had very good continuity on that score. Schroeder and Lucy seem to have been aged up at some point, because weren’t they sometimes shown in the same class as Charlie Brown, Patty and the rest? Sally sure caught up with her brother quickly, too – Linus once calculates that she’s five years younger than he is (when he briefly contemplates whether it’d be okay to date her later in the far-off future – Sally thinks “I’LL WAIT!!!”), but there’s no way she stayed that much younger. Not that I even know how old CB’s crowd should be. Maybe 10? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-named-charlie-brown-is-one-f-ed-up-movie/562051/58 "2010-12-02T17:21:03Z")
> [@choie](#): > > This makes me ponder their aNot that I even know how old CB’s crowd should be. Maybe 10? Charlie Brown is 8. He was younger in the early strips, but then Schultz stabilized his age at 8. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-named-charlie-brown-is-one-f-ed-up-movie/562051/59 "2010-12-03T01:19:15Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Seeing as he’s described as nearly the perfect example of someone with depression, you basically just said that all depressed people are selfish jerks. And surely by now the board knows my opinion on that. For fucks sake, get OVER it. It’s a comic strip. And to be perfectly blunt, yes, some of them are – or at least they use that as an excuse. The football – I remember reading somewhere that Shultz thought it would be a cheap shot to do so for the last strip. Later, however, he said he regretted it. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-named-charlie-brown-is-one-f-ed-up-movie/562051/60 "2011-01-12T07:33:59Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > No, it was a great strip from the 1950’s to the early 1970’s. By the end it was every bit as bad as Cathy and Garfield. I don’t think this can be defended at all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-named-charlie-brown-is-one-f-ed-up-movie/562051.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-boy-named-charlie-brown-is-one-f-ed-up-movie/562051.md?page=4)