# A Brief Tribute to Law & Order **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 13, 2020, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355 "2020-01-13T15:45:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/1 "2020-01-13T15:45:03Z")
I have been feeling somewhat dismayed recently because no matter how many TV shows I have tried to watch, I keep finding it increasingly difficult to find hardly any really good shows. For the past few days, I have been watching old episodes of Dick Wolfe’s TV show, “Law & Order”. For some reason, I don’t seem to enjoy the first five seasons. But, IMHO, all the other seasons (6 thru 19) are some of the very best TV I’ve ever seen. The scripts are masterpieces. The rest of those shows (mostly the acting), is just as good as I have ever seen. If I was stranded on a desert island and could only watch one TV show, it would def be this one. There is only one word I have for this show. MAGNIFICENT! I have never been able to get nearly as interested in the other editions of this show - namely L&O SVU and L&O CI. There were some others as well but they only lasted very briefly and so I don’t see much reason to spend hardly any time discussing them. I’d like to ask you about these other two editions. Can you tell me how you feel about them? Are either or both of them anywhere near the quality of the original show? If so, can you recommend any specific seasons or episodes of those two series? If you know them well, which one would you recommend I binge watch next? Is one seriously better than the other? If so, I would truly enjoy hearing your opinions about them. Also, if you know of any other shows in a similar genre that were done as well as L&O or even anywhere near as close as L&O, I would really appreciate hearing your opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/2 "2020-01-13T18:16:37Z")
I used to love Law and Order, though my favorite era was when Briscoe and Logan were the two cops (which looks like seasons 3-5 according to the wiki list). What I always liked was that the show felt very real - while it was certianly written to be an interesting hour long TV show, they’d have to deal with things like having to get warrants, the trial not going according to plan, and the like. At the point I lost interest I remember feeling like they had started to go for more ‘sensational’ over ‘realistic’, but I also might just have lost interest over time since the show ran for so long. I was never a huge fan of the spinoffs. SVU seemed to ditch the realism and focus on sensationalism, and I don’t really get Ice T as an actor. Criminal Intent also ditched the realistic format and was more of a showcase for the lead actor to perform, they were much bigger on doing psychological tricks to pull out the confession at the end which almost always wrapped up the case without a trial. I liked CI for a while, but not as much as the main series, and lost interest in it quicker. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/3 "2020-01-13T18:29:47Z")
It recently occured to me part of the reason for the longevity of the L&O franchises. Each episode has victims, witnesses, defence attorneys, and people standing or walking around. So there are a lot of actors getting work. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/4 "2020-01-13T18:36:23Z")
I remember reading an article about the original Law & Order. At the time it premiered, most syndicated shows were half-hour sitcoms. So the episodes were structured so that the police investigation bit took just over half the run time, while the courtroom bit took a little less than half. The idea was that the episodes could be broken in two to run in two half-hour segments, leaving a little time at the beginning of the second episode for a recap. I liked it much more than the other shows in the franchise, although at one point BBC America aired the UK version of the original show and that was fun to watch, just for the differences in police and courtroom procedure. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/5 "2020-01-13T18:40:42Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > For some reason, I don’t seem to enjoy the first five seasons. That’s easy. No Lenny until Season 3, no McCoy until season 5. Also, the direction in the first couple of seasons is just odd. It feels like a completely different show. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/6 "2020-01-13T19:21:35Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > That’s easy. No Lenny until Season 3, no McCoy until season 5. > > Also, the direction in the first couple of seasons is just odd. It feels like a completely different show. Yeah. I’ll watch the pre-McCoy seasons, but not the pre-Lenny ones. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/7 "2020-01-13T19:38:46Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > That’s easy. No Lenny until Season 3, no McCoy until season 5. > > Also, the direction in the first couple of seasons is just odd. It feels like a completely different show. I must agree about Lenny. Jerry Orbach was terrific in that role and it’s not really about his skill as an actor. I’ve posted many times how all the best actors seem to be divided into two catetories. The first category are highly skilled actors - like Meryl Streep, Lawrence Olivier, Anthony Hopkins, Brando and others. IMHO, these people are like chameleons. They have the ability to take on the cloak of most any different characters - all of whom have highly diff personalities. They are highly skilled actors. I enjoy watching them because it is so amazing to see how they transform themselves into completely diff people in any new project. Just remember Meryl Streep and how she played that Polish lady in Sophie’s Choice and then how she played the boss of that big magazine in The Devil Wears Prada. The second category are people who are very enjoyable to watch - regardless of what character they play. People like Jack Nicholson always seem to just play themselves. They almost never try to act like anyone else. Well, Jerry Orbach seems to me to be in the second category. I have never seen him act like anyone else besides Jerry Orbach. But that never mattered because no matter what char he plays, I have always found watching him to be a real delight. What a great actor he was! ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/8 "2020-01-13T19:43:28Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > Well, Jerry Orbach seems to me to be in the second category. I have never seen him act like anyone else besides Jerry Orbach. But that never mattered because no matter what char he plays, I have always found watching him to be a real delight. What a great actor he was! Jerry Orbach had some range - from say here [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIg36nT8Now](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIg36nT8Now) to [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pvq6NI8CNZU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pvq6NI8CNZU) He just seemed so natural as Lenny, though. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/9 "2020-01-13T19:48:02Z")
More about Jerry Orbach. It seems to me that one of an actor’s greatest skills is the ability to make themselves disappear in a role. Do you remember Jerry Orbach in “Dirty Dancing”? If not, I think that is very understandable. He just kind of disappears into the role of Baby’s father. You may think I’m trying to be a wise guy. But just ask yourself how would you go about acting as a character if your goal was to become invisible? IMO, that is not an easy job. Not easy by any stretch at all. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/10 "2020-01-13T19:57:32Z")
If I recall correctly, Orbach was a [song and dance man](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEW1F9kZ-UE) who got his breaks in _The Fantasticks_ back in the early 1960s, so I go with item 1 on Charlie’s list… though Orbach may have decided that “playing himself” was just easier as he got older. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/11 "2020-01-13T20:22:04Z")
I’d just like to note that for 30 years I’ve been slightly annoyed by the show’s credit sequence that suggested the cops were “Law” and the district attorneys were “Order”. It should have been the other way around. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/12 "2020-01-13T20:24:44Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’d just like to note that for 30 years I’ve been slightly annoyed by the show’s credit sequence that suggested the cops were “Law” and the district attorneys were “Order”. It should have been the other way around. Friends: > [@](#): > > Phoebe: Don’t you think that it should be called Order and Law? > > Rachel: No because first they arrest the guy and then they try him. > > Phoebe: Don’t get me started on that. ---
**Author:** ![bbonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecb155/32.png) [@bbonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bbonden)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/13 "2020-01-13T20:34:33Z")
Fantastic show, nearly every episode rewatchable. Never understood the love for McCoy. Always surprised Ben Stone doesn’t get more love. Among my favorite TV characters regardless of show. Liked the Lupo/Bernard detective pairing a lot. Would have watched them on other shows. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/14 "2020-01-13T20:35:28Z")
I always liked the L&O UK series, especially with how they incorporated the British CCTV everywhere into old US episodes. But I can’t find them any more without paying. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/15 "2020-01-13T21:11:48Z")
> [@bbonden](#): > > Never understood the love for McCoy. I think part of the fun is watching him stretch the law as needed to make his case work. Although I will admit, rewatching the show now that I’m older with more liberal sensibilities has made me raise my eyebrow more than once. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/16 "2020-01-13T21:14:27Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Yeah. I’ll watch the pre-McCoy seasons, but not the pre-Lenny ones. To paraphrase Cotton Hill, “Aw, Cerreta? That’s like gettin’ a Shemp.” ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/17 "2020-01-13T21:37:54Z")
> [@bbonden](#): > > Always surprised Ben Stone doesn’t get more love. Among my favorite TV characters regardless of show. I have frequently wished for Ben Stone’s ability to make the word “Sir” sound like the most contemptuous insult imaginable. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/18 "2020-01-13T22:13:32Z")
> [@bbonden](#): > > Always surprised Ben Stone doesn’t get more love. Among my favorite TV characters regardless of show. Yeah, he was really good during the time that he was on the show. From reports at the time, it sounds like the actor started having significant person problems, then burned his bridges with the production crew, which is too bad. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/19 "2020-01-13T22:27:47Z")
I have the complete set of the original ‘Law and Order’ and have really enjoyed watching the whole thing a couple of times. Clever format, good writing, believable performances. I also liked most of ‘Law and Order: Criminal Intent’, because Vincent D’Onofrio really threw himself into the part (a Sherlock Holmes type…) I was happy when Chris Noth joined the cast (with several partners) and later Jeff Goldblum - but around this time the writers started (in my opinion) putting Vincent D’Onofrio into ridiculous situations. ‘Law and Order: Special Victims Unit’ was fine in terms of production, acting etc - but I found the story-lines harrowing, so stopped watching it. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/20 "2020-01-14T03:11:28Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > I have frequently wished for Ben Stone’s ability to make the word “Sir” sound like the most contemptuous insult imaginable. Word. I strongly prefer Stone to MCoy. Season 4 was the best cast, IMHO [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355.md?page=2)