# A Brief Tribute to Law & Order **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 13, 2020, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355 "2020-01-13T15:45:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/21 "2020-01-14T04:49:02Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > That’s easy. No Lenny until Season 3, no McCoy until season 5. > > Also, the direction in the first couple of seasons is just odd. It feels like a completely different show. Nobody could deliver a wisecrack like Lennie Briscoe. There’s still one early episode I want to see, but haven’t; _Everybody’s Favorite Bagman_. I think it was the original pilot; filmed well before any more episodes and rather different stylistically. And has a rare on-screen appearance by Steven Zirnkilton, who does the opening narration on all the _L&O_ shows. I have seen early episodes with S. Epatha Merkerson as the mother of a young shooting victim, and another with Jerry Orbach as a defense attorney. It’s quite amazing how often I recognize an actor, look them up on IMDb, and then discover that I know them from another episode of _Law & Order_. There was one episode with a dominatrix who looked very familiar. I looked up the actress, Frances Conroy, and figured out that I’d seen her in another episode as a very devout nun. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/22 "2020-01-14T11:39:53Z")
I would just like to add a personal opinion about one of the actors who appeared on this show. TTBOMK, he only appeared in two episodes. He played a wisecracking defense attorney. The name Dworkin comes to mind but I have no idea if that is the name of the actor or the character. There is an excellent chance that my memory is completely wrong about this name and it may have nothing to do with either the actor or the char he played. He played the part of a short kind of “creepy” guy who was real easy to dislike. I enjoyed his portrayals so much that I had hoped he would have been given a recurring role on another show or even given his own show. Dang! I’m so sorry that I cannot remember his name or the plot of either episode in which he appeared. I do recall one scene in which McCoy and this guy sat in a bar and had a brief conversation. It seems to me that this defense lawyer said he either attended Harvard or he complained that he never had the resources or connections to get into Harvard and had to go to a much lesser school. It may help if I add that he played a Jewish man and some of his wisecracks were def related to Jews or Jewish humor. Does anyone remember this guy’s name? Either the name of the actor or the name of the char he portrayed? I know that I did see him once in some other TV show. But I have no memory of what show that was. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/23 "2020-01-14T13:05:50Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > I would just like to add a personal opinion about one of the actors who appeared on this show. > > TTBOMK, he only appeared in two episodes. He played a wisecracking defense attorney. The name Dworkin comes to mind but I have no idea if that is the name of the actor or the character. There is an excellent chance that my memory is completely wrong about this name and it may have nothing to do with either the actor or the char he played. > > He played the part of a short kind of “creepy” guy who was real easy to dislike. I enjoyed his portrayals so much that I had hoped he would have been given a recurring role on another show or even given his own show. Dang! I’m so sorry that I cannot remember his name or the plot of either episode in which he appeared. I do recall one scene in which McCoy and this guy sat in a bar and had a brief conversation. It seems to me that this defense lawyer said he either attended Harvard or he complained that he never had the resources or connections to get into Harvard and had to go to a much lesser school. It may help if I add that he played a Jewish man and some of his wisecracks were def related to Jews or Jewish humor. Does anyone remember this guy’s name? Either the name of the actor or the name of the char he portrayed? Sounds like Randy Dworkin. According to IMDb, the character appeared 3 times on the original series, and once on SVU. > [@](#): > > I know that I did see him once in some other TV show. But I have no memory of what show that was. Played by [Peter Jacobson](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0414772/?ref_=tt_cl_t7), who was Dr. Taub for five seasons on _House_. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/24 "2020-01-14T13:07:15Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > I would just like to add a personal opinion about one of the actors who appeared on this show. > > TTBOMK, he only appeared in two episodes. He played a wisecracking defense attorney. The name Dworkin comes to mind but I have no idea if that is the name of the actor or the character. There is an excellent chance that my memory is completely wrong about this name and it may have nothing to do with either the actor or the char he played. > > He played the part of a short kind of “creepy” guy who was real easy to dislike. I enjoyed his portrayals so much that I had hoped he would have been given a recurring role on another show or even given his own show. Dang! I’m so sorry that I cannot remember his name or the plot of either episode in which he appeared. I do recall one scene in which McCoy and this guy sat in a bar and had a brief conversation. It seems to me that this defense lawyer said he either attended Harvard or he complained that he never had the resources or connections to get into Harvard and had to go to a much lesser school. It may help if I add that he played a Jewish man and some of his wisecracks were def related to Jews or Jewish humor. Does anyone remember this guy’s name? Either the name of the actor or the name of the char he portrayed? > > I know that I did see him once in some other TV show. But I have no memory of what show that was. Peter Jacobson [Peter Jacobson - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Jacobson) - he was also a regular in the later seasons of House Not the same guy as [Saul Rubinek - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saul_Rubinek), but I’ve made that mistake before. ETA and now I see I was ninja’d ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/25 "2020-01-14T13:19:54Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Sounds like Randy Dworkin. According to IMDb, the character appeared 3 times on the original series, and once on SVU. > > Played by [Peter Jacobson](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0414772/?ref_=tt_cl_t7), who was Dr. Taub for five seasons on _House_. Thank you very much. I wanted to thank AndyL as well. I tried to use Multii-Quote but failed. Oh well. I suppose that learning how to use Multi-Quote will be my project for the day. It’s nice to learn something new every day. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/26 "2020-01-14T13:31:17Z")
For anyone else who wants to know how to use Multi-Quote, I Googled, “Straight Dope how to use multi-quote” and I got the following link: [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=851720](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=851720) Here is what it says: * * * Lucas Jackson said: “While Multi Quote is underlined, giving the impression that clicking it would invoke it, it doesn’t work like that. Instead, click the icon to its left, and do that with all the other posts you want to quote. When you click Reply the quoted posts will show up in your reply in the order selected.” CrowManyClouds then added: Quote: Originally Posted by Lucas Jackson View Post See title. Quote: Originally Posted by dropzone View Post {…} When you click Reply the quoted posts will show up in your reply in the order selected. Then, if you want to nest them, Quote: Originally Posted by Lucas Jackson View Post See title. Quote: Originally Posted by dropzone View Post {…} When you click Reply the quoted posts will show up in your reply in the order selected. move all the {/QUOTE} to the end. (This keeps all the “Originally Posted by” with the actual quote text. Also, this is when preview is your bestest friend! 'Cause this is really, really, easy to screw up.) ## CMC fnord! I must admit that I still can’t figure it out. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/27 "2020-01-14T13:42:56Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > Thank you very much. > > I wanted to thank AndyL as well. I tried to use Multii-Quote but failed. > Oh well. I suppose that learning how to use Multi-Quote will be my project for the day. > > It’s nice to learn something new every day. You’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/28 "2020-01-14T15:01:43Z")
If you don’t enjoy the comedy team of Finn & Munch, I don’t want to know you. They turn LAW & Order: SVU into a comedy gold mine. Yes, Jerry Orbach was a really fine theatre song and dance man in his prime. When he first staring auditioning for tough guy roles, the reaction was “What? That guy play a tough guy?” He broke through in Prince of the City, and eventually he go to be “What? That tough guy was a song and dance man?” ---
**Author:** ![ArrMatey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrmatey/32/3522_2.png) [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/29 "2020-01-14T18:21:08Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > If you don’t enjoy the comedy team of Finn & Munch, I don’t want to know you. They turn LAW & Order: SVU into a comedy gold mine. > > Yes, Jerry Orbach was a really fine theatre song and dance man in his prime. When he first staring auditioning for tough guy roles, the reaction was “What? That guy play a tough guy?” He broke through in Prince of the City, and eventually he go to be “What? That tough guy was a song and dance man?” Yeah, Finn & Munch I loved. I got a little disappointed when Munch ‘retired’ from the show. Orbach, of course, was amazing. I’ve loved L&O for a long time, and used to love SVU. Because the first five seasons are now available on Amazon, I started a re-watch and… …eccccch… There’s a -whole- lot of dialogue and plots revolving around “Well, the rape victim is obviously lying.” And that gets -real- uncomfortable, as well as the presence of a small but visible amount of ‘she was asking for it, wasn’t she?’ plotlines. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/30 "2020-01-14T18:44:52Z")
I appreciated that it wasn’t a given that they’d always “win.” Their clearance rate was certainly WAY above average for real NYC, but the fact that they ever lost at all was fairly innovative, and it created an atmosphere where you couldn’t expect the prosecution to win every single time, which was the standard format for court shows since forever; a TV lawyer on a scripted court show losing a case was almost treated as a “special episode” (in 9 seasons Perry Mason lost exactly 3 cases). At least one season of L&O, their success rate was under 60% (season 4). The season with the highest success rate (95%) was also their lowest ever rated season (season 17). cite: [Twenty Seasons of Law And Order by the Numbers | Smart News| Smithsonian Magazine](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/twenty-seasons-of-law-and-order-by-the-numbers-124026578/) ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/31 "2020-01-14T19:07:11Z")
After Lenny Briscoe, I wanted to see Logan and Green team up. A really kick-ass team! ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/32 "2020-01-14T21:33:34Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > There’s still one early episode I want to see, but haven’t; _Everybody’s Favorite Bagman_. I think it was the original pilot; filmed well before any more episodes and rather different stylistically. Yes, that was indeed the original pilot. It actually appeared as episode 6 in the first season. It’s quite good, but is clearly a pilot (introducing characters etc.) ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/33 "2020-01-14T21:42:12Z")
Elisabeth Rohm is the worst actor in the entire franchise. Period. Or pretty much _any_ franchise. There are KFC cooks who can act better than her. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/34 "2020-01-14T21:55:14Z")
Is that because she (or actually her character) was a lesbian? This was notoriously introduced at the very end of the episode in which her character was being [fired](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_Southerlyn#Departure_and_sexuality). ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2020, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/35 "2020-01-14T23:03:56Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > I have been feeling somewhat dismayed recently because no matter how many TV shows I have tried to watch, I keep finding it increasingly difficult to find hardly any really good shows. > > For the past few days, I have been watching old episodes of Dick Wolfe’s TV show, “Law & Order”. For some reason, I don’t seem to enjoy the first five seasons. But, IMHO, all the other seasons (6 thru 19) are some of the very best TV I’ve ever seen. The scripts are masterpieces. The rest of those shows (mostly the acting), is just as good as I have ever seen. > > If I was stranded on a desert island and could only watch one TV show, it would def be this one. There is only one word I have for this show. MAGNIFICENT! > > I have never been able to get nearly as interested in the other editions of this show - namely L&O SVU and L&O CI. There were some others as well but they only lasted very briefly and so I don’t see much reason to spend hardly any time discussing them. > > I’d like to ask you about these other two editions. Can you tell me how you feel about them? Are either or both of them anywhere near the quality of the original show? > > If so, can you recommend any specific seasons or episodes of those two series? If you know them well, which one would you recommend I binge watch next? Is one seriously better than the other? If so, I would truly enjoy hearing your opinions about them. > > Also, if you know of any other shows in a similar genre that were done as well as L&O or even anywhere near as close as L&O, I would really appreciate hearing your opinions. Another Dick Wolfe show I like is Chicago PD. It’s not as ‘realistic’ as Law and Order but still enjoyable. The problem with that show is that it doesn’t have the bottomless well of episodes so they keep playing the same 5-6 seasons over and over. You also might like The Wire. My favorite Criminal Intent episodes are Goren + Eames + Deakins (Jamie Sheridan) so that would be seasons 1-5. After that they’re still good but can try to be a bit too cinematic. There’s nothing to not like about Julianne Nicholson and Annabella Sciorra. The only thing that really rankled me about the later episodes is Jeff Goldblum playing the piano. I liked watching SVU for a while but they became too preachy and pedantic, like when they’re sitting around reciting crime stats to each other. Still go in a pinch though. ---
**Author:** ![ArrMatey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrmatey/32/3522_2.png) [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/36 "2020-01-15T01:31:23Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > I appreciated that it wasn’t a given that they’d always “win.” > > Their clearance rate was certainly WAY above average for real NYC, but the fact that they ever lost at all was fairly innovative, and it created an atmosphere where you couldn’t expect the prosecution to win every single time, which was the standard format for court shows since forever; a TV lawyer on a scripted court show losing a case was almost treated as a “special episode” (in 9 seasons Perry Mason lost exactly 3 cases). At least one season of L&O, their success rate was under 60% (season 4). The season with the highest success rate (95%) was also their lowest ever rated season (season 17). > > cite: [Twenty Seasons of Law And Order by the Numbers | Smart News| Smithsonian Magazine](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/twenty-seasons-of-law-and-order-by-the-numbers-124026578/) Reminds me much of the old ‘Dragnet’ radio program. I understand the television show was different, but very often in Dragnet the police wouldn’t end up making the case. Now, due to the era, there were rules about making sure ‘crime didn’t pay’, but often as not the show would cap with Friday talking about how they didn’t catch the guy, but a few months later the criminal got caught trying some other crime in another county, or got found dead at a traffic accident. The criminal wouldn’t get away with it, but it wasn’t always, or even commonly, Joe and his partner making the case. Seemed more ‘honest’ that way. ---
**Author:** ![Fair\_Rarity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fair_rarity/32/153_2.png) [@Fair\_Rarity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fair_Rarity)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/37 "2020-01-15T01:46:19Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Elisabeth Rohm is the worst actor in the entire franchise. Period. Or pretty much _any_ franchise. There are KFC cooks who can act better than her. I was watching a rare episode I either missed in its original run or only saw once and completely forgot and she was distractingly bad. You can see it sometimes on the faces of the actors in her scenes. No matter how good they are, a brief moment of confusion passes over their face and then they read their lines. Anyway, I love the series and still watch it and I still get mad at NBC for canceling it. I watched the first season of SVU and hated it. I watched CI and I mostly enjoyed it, despite it being wildly different in tone and style from time to time. I didn’t mind the LA one, but that got canceled quick and I don’t think I ever saw any of the other versions. My true favorite “spin off” is “Basic Lupine Urology” from Community. I don’t love the first few seasons, but I liked Paul and the two cops and early Claire. I am more likely to watch something else if that’s the block on WETV on the weekends. I don’t like the guy who took over as ADA when Jack when full DA. And most of all I hate the episode where it turns out he’s maybe not really a lawyer and that episode seems to be in the heaviest rotation. His accent is terrible and distracting, but I’d rather watch him all day every day than one Rohm episode. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/38 "2020-01-15T01:50:59Z")
Watching Law & Order is my happy place. I have found that almost any difficult situation can be made better with Law & Order episodes. I find it especially soothing on long airplane flights and during dental cleanings (I bring my portable DVD player and some earphones and I barely notice what’s happening to my teeth). ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/39 "2020-01-15T01:57:40Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > I have been feeling somewhat dismayed recently because no matter how many TV shows I have tried to watch, I keep finding it increasingly difficult to find hardly any really good shows. > > For the past few days, I have been watching old episodes of Dick Wolfe’s TV show, “Law & Order”. For some reason, I don’t seem to enjoy the first five seasons. But, IMHO, all the other seasons (6 thru 19) are some of the very best TV I’ve ever seen. The scripts are masterpieces. The rest of those shows (mostly the acting), is just as good as I have ever seen. > > If I was stranded on a desert island and could only watch one TV show, it would def be this one. There is only one word I have for this show. MAGNIFICENT! > > I have never been able to get nearly as interested in the other editions of this show - namely L&O SVU and L&O CI. There were some others as well but they only lasted very briefly and so I don’t see much reason to spend hardly any time discussing them. > > I’d like to ask you about these other two editions. Can you tell me how you feel about them? Are either or both of them anywhere near the quality of the original show? > > If so, can you recommend any specific seasons or episodes of those two series? If you know them well, which one would you recommend I binge watch next? Is one seriously better than the other? If so, I would truly enjoy hearing your opinions about them. > > Also, if you know of any other shows in a similar genre that were done as well as L&O or even anywhere near as close as L&O, I would really appreciate hearing your opinions. Fully agreed! ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2020, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/40 "2020-01-15T02:45:39Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Nobody could deliver a wisecrack like Lennie Briscoe. > > … I was just watching an episode from Season 7 and saw a perfect example of that. Lennie said words to the effect, “I really felt bad about that. My sleep will be disturbed for minutes.” I actually LOL’d. I almost never do that when watching this show. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355.md?page=3)