# A Brief Tribute to Law & Order **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 13, 2020, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355 "2020-01-13T15:45:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![LLCoolL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/llcooll/32/3596_2.png) [@LLCoolL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LLCoolL)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2020, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/61 "2020-01-20T09:19:31Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > …It always seemed to me that Fontana was a highly unrealistic char who would have been fired within about ten seconds for appearing to have a huge fortune. The way he dressed and the car he drove both seemed to me to require a millionaire’s budget. But the best thing about him - IMO - was his attitude. I loved watching him. It seemed pretty clear the writers were trying to suggest Fontana was crooked, or had been crooked in the past. Such a backstory for a character could have been an interesting wrinkle. (Although a plot development like that would’ve fit better on SVU, where the characters’ personal lives are explored more.) Alas, nothing ever came of it. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2020, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/62 "2020-01-20T11:05:11Z")
> [@LLCoolL](#): > > It seemed pretty clear the writers were trying to suggest Fontana was crooked, or had been crooked in the past. Such a backstory for a character could have been an interesting wrinkle. (Although a plot development like that would’ve fit better on SVU, where the characters’ personal lives are explored more.) Alas, nothing ever came of it. I always thought the same thing. AAMOF, I thought the show just ran out of time before they revealed that about him. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2020, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/63 "2020-01-20T11:15:25Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > I used to love Law and Order, though my favorite era was when Briscoe and Logan were the two cops (which looks like seasons 3-5 according to the wiki list). What I always liked was that the show felt very real - while it was certianly written to be an interesting hour long TV show, they’d have to deal with things like having to get warrants, the trial not going according to plan, and the like. At the point I lost interest I remember feeling like they had started to go for more ‘sensational’ over ‘realistic’, but I also might just have lost interest over time since the show ran for so long. I was never a huge fan of the spinoffs. SVU seemed to ditch the realism and focus on sensationalism, and I don’t really get Ice T as an actor. Criminal Intent also ditched the realistic format and was more of a showcase for the lead actor to perform, they were much bigger on doing psychological tricks to pull out the confession at the end which almost always wrapped up the case without a trial. I liked CI for a while, but not as much as the main series, and lost interest in it quicker. Relevant John Mulaney clip: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/F1sd4CRcaE0/maxresdefault.jpg "John Mulaney: New in Town - Ice-T on "SVU" & Old Murder Investigations") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1sd4CRcaE0) ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2020, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/64 "2020-01-20T11:19:28Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > The cold open always seemed to feature someone walking somewhere in New York and stumbling on a dead body. And then when the person was being interviewed by the police, they’d continue to do their job (moving boxes, shelving books, whatever). At some point, they’d seem to get annoyed and ask, “Are we done? These flowers aren’t going to arrange themselves.” It gave the impression that New Yorkers were really blasé about dead bodies. That always annoyed me about the show. Every.single.time. I mean, if I am in the garden and two detectives show up and tell me that the neighbor was sodomized with a baseball bat and murdered last night, then they have my full attention. I will put down the gardening rake and weed killer and answer their questions without any distractions. Further, I will give them the important details first and spare them any backstory, knowing that they are busy people. For example, I won’t talk about how the neighbor was always such a nice guy who helped teach my special needs kid how to read last summer, but ohbytheway a strange white sedan was in his driveway last night and I heard screaming; do you think that might help? ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2020, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/65 "2020-01-20T12:25:30Z")
the only thing on TV more than L&O reruns are Mike Bloomberg ads. 🙂 I watch L&O SVU now and then , just started watching a few years back. I record every episode but I don’t watch all of them. ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2020, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/66 "2020-01-20T19:58:18Z")
> [@LLCoolL](#): > > It seemed pretty clear the writers were trying to suggest Fontana was crooked, or had been crooked in the past. Such a backstory for a character could have been an interesting wrinkle. (Although a plot development like that would’ve fit better on SVU, where the characters’ personal lives are explored more.) Alas, nothing ever came of it. I remember reading somewhere that source of Fontana’s wealth was that he was an heir of a “Chef Boyardee” fictional counterpart’s fortune but I don’t think they ever actually referenced that on a show. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/67 "2020-01-22T15:34:12Z")
Darn it all! I just saw one episode that I’m fairly certain was one of the last few in Season 10 or one of the first few in Season 11. Lenny makes a remark that is just side-splitting funny but for some reason, I just can’t remember what it is. That is so unfortunate because I think it is head and shoulders above any other remark I’ve ever heard him make. I affirm it was the funniest thing he ever said and I am drawing a total blank. But I promise to track it down if I have to watch all of these episodes again and again. I will get back to you all just as soon as I have a resolution. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/68 "2020-01-22T15:56:41Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > Darn it all! I just saw one episode that I’m fairly certain was one of the last few in Season 10 or one of the first few in Season 11. Lenny makes a remark that is just side-splitting funny but for some reason, I just can’t remember what it is. You might start with the quotes pages on IMDb. Here’s the page for [Stiff](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0629437/quotes?ref_=tttrv_sa_3), the next-to-last episode of season 10; Lennie has a few good zingers in that one. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2020, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/69 "2020-01-23T08:25:15Z")
OK. I found it! It’s Season 11 Episode 2 - Turnstile Justice. I don’t know how many of you will remember this but in the late 1990’s and early 2000’s, Regis Philbin was hosting the TV show, “Who Wants to be a Millionaire?” and he would ask each contestant, “Is that your final answer?”. It became very famous. Well, in this epislode Lenny Briscoe and Ed Green have a mentally deranged black man in an interrogation room. This man does not want to give his name or allow them to take his fingerprints. But, A.D.A. Abbie Carmichael takes charge and tells the man she needs to know his name. He thinks for a sec and then replies, “Regis Philbin”. There is a moment of silence and then Lennie asks, “Is that your final answer?” I just about fell down laughing. IMHO, that is the funniest thing that Lennie has ever said. There are a few web sites that contain all of Lennie’s humorous one-liners. Apparently, most of them were ad libs. But this one just hit me as the funniest of them all. By the way, the latter part of Season 10 and the early part of Season 11 contain some of the very best episodes (IMO) of them all. For pure excellence in drama, I would like to recommend Season 10 Episode 18, “Mega”. It stars Michael McKean and Annette O’toole and I don’t think I’ve ever seen either of them turn in better dramatic performances. This episode had me hanging on to the edge of my seat right up to the very end where it ends in a real nail-biter surprise. This epsisode may well be my single favorite episode of the entire series. If any of you take the time to view these two episodes, I hope you will enjoy them. ETA: Thank you Robot Arm ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2020, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/70 "2020-01-23T18:40:28Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > Relevant John Mulaney clip: > > [https://youtu.be/F1sd4CRcaE0](https://youtu.be/F1sd4CRcaE0) Yeah, I had forgotten about the always being surprised thing, which adds to the feeling of “Ice-T’s character is a rapper playing a cop who’s completely new to the job”. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2020, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/71 "2020-01-23T20:13:45Z")
> [@LLCoolL](#): > > It seemed pretty clear the writers were trying to suggest Fontana was crooked, or had been crooked in the past. Such a backstory for a character could have been an interesting wrinkle. (Although a plot development like that would’ve fit better on SVU, where the characters’ personal lives are explored more.) Alas, nothing ever came of it. I disagree that Fontana was an unrealistic character. I fear he was far too realistic. He’s a self-absorbed jerk, he tortured a confession out of a suspect and got away with it, he goes way over the legal line investigating. I’m sure he thinks there are “cops and little people”, and only the former deserve respect. In other words, he’d fit right in the NYPD. I hate every episode he’s in, except the “JonBenet Ramsey” episode, where he incorrectly assumed the father was the killer and hounded him for years in his usual Fontana style. When they finally proved he didn’t, Fontana went to ask forgiveness from the father, who basically told him to fuck off, and it hurt. Good day! I wish they could have kept Falco and lost Fontana. Preferably in the east river. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/72 "2020-01-24T21:50:54Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > By the way, the latter part of Season 10 and the early part of Season 11 contain some of the very best episodes (IMO) of them all. For pure excellence in drama, I would like to recommend Season 10 Episode 18, “Mega”. It stars Michael McKean and Annette O’toole and I don’t think I’ve ever seen either of them turn in better dramatic performances. This episode had me hanging on to the edge of my seat right up to the very end where it ends in a real nail-biter surprise. This epsisode may well be my single favorite episode of the entire series. They’re married IRL, so that makes it even better. The original L&O is my favorite. There was one episode where the son of a mobster is accused of murder, and his father, the kingpin, says that there’s no way his son could have killed anyone. When asked why, his father says (quite matter-of-factly) “He doesn’t have the authority.” That just gave me chills. Christine Baranski was also on an early episode, playing the sister of a Mafia don. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2020, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/73 "2020-01-24T22:16:29Z")
I remember one episode in which Jack McCoy promised the suspect that he would receive immunity. (Saying something like, “I promise you that the Manhattan district attorney’s office or the Office of the New York County District Attorney will not prosecute you.”) After receiving a confession, McCoy stepped aside as the guy was arrested and charged by the Brooklyn district attorney. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2020, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/74 "2020-01-25T06:40:50Z")
I recently saw one episode that featured a highly incompetent defense atty. It was Season 11 Episode 1. Funny how it seems that whenever they feature an incompetent defense atty, that atty also turns out to try and hit on one of the ADA’s. My favorite incompetent defense atty is the character Randy Dworkin. He appears in at least 2 or 3 episodes and whenever he appears, the episodes almost seem to be comedies. There is something about this character that I just love watching. IMHO, it’s a real shame they couldn’t have given him a recurring role. I don’t remember the char name of the atty in S11E01 but you may remember him. At the end of the episode, he approaches Jack McCoy and says, “A tip from the other side of the aisle. The next time you get the opportunity to take a lower but included offense, you should take it.” In his style, McCoy refuses to call him an idiot but just says, “Thank You” to him. It was excellent TV, IMO. This char tries to hit on Angie Harmon but she acts as if he is invisible and she can’t hear a word he says. I loved that. Does anyone remember any other episodes that featured incompetent defense attorneys? ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2020, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/75 "2020-01-25T15:14:23Z")
In a show where they are very good at portraying police detectives correctly, it drives me bonkers that they show the two detectives walking up the pathway to the suspect’s door with their guns safely holstered. Way to get both your heads blow off when the suspect opens the door and starts shooting. In real life they walk up from opposite corners of the sidewalk in a V-formation, with their guns out. Suspects opens the door with a gun, turns to one and the other one fires. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2020, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/76 "2020-01-25T15:37:32Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > My favorite incompetent defense atty is the character Randy Dworkin. He appears in at least 2 or 3 episodes and whenever he appears, the episodes almost seem to be comedies. There is something about this character that I just love watching. IMHO, it’s a real shame they couldn’t have given him a recurring role. > > … > > Does anyone remember any other episodes that featured incompetent defense attorneys? Randy’s not incompetent - he puts on an act of incompetence, but proves pretty challenging to beat. A real incompetent is Jerry Stiller’s character in [Deadbeat | Law and Order | Fandom](https://lawandorder.fandom.com/wiki/Deadbeat) - “This is Sam Pokras, an attorney.” “Mostly real estate. I’m Max’s cousin. Oh, what a tragedy. First Mike is murdered, now Max is in trouble?” " Well, we want to ask him a few questions." “Sam, they think I killed him.” “**They do? You didn’t, did you, Max? No, of course not. Then just tell them the truth. I never saw anybody get hurt by the truth.**” ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2020, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/77 "2020-01-25T16:18:52Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Randy’s not incompetent - he puts on an act of incompetence, but proves pretty challenging to beat. A real incompetent is Jerry Stiller’s character in [Deadbeat | Law and Order | Fandom](https://lawandorder.fandom.com/wiki/Deadbeat) - > > “This is Sam Pokras, an attorney.” > “Mostly real estate. > I’m Max’s cousin. > Oh, what a tragedy. > First Mike is murdered, now Max is in trouble?” > > " Well, we want to ask him a few questions." > “Sam, they think I killed him.” > > “**They do? You didn’t, did you, Max? No, of course not. > Then just tell them the truth. > I never saw anybody get hurt by the truth.**” Yes. You are quite right. Randy is not incompetent. He just appears to be incompetent to his opposing lawyers - but not to the home audience. You are also entirely correct about Jerry Stiller’s character. He was a complete disaster - a complete mess - and a thoroughly incompetent lawyer. He was so incompetent that it wasn’t even funny - sad to say. Funny is so much better. But do you remember the “wise guy” smarmy character from S11E01? I just wish that guy had appeared in almost every episode. It was so thrilling to watch him behave like such a fool and to watch the D.A.'s show him up by pretending to make him feel like he was better than them. That was a really excellent life lesson for me. The best way to defeat someone is to make them think you are helping them win. It was just superb! ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2020, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/78 "2020-01-25T16:27:28Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > But do you remember the “wise guy” smarmy character from S11E01? I just wish that guy had appeared in almost every episode. It was so thrilling to watch him behave like such a fool and to watch the D.A.'s show him up by pretending to make him feel like he was better than them. That was a really excellent life lesson for me. The best way to defeat someone is to make them think you are helping them win. It was just superb! Yeah. “Barry Peck” played by Nick Chinlund. He also played the embedded reporter who revealed US troop positions in another episode of L&O (based on the Geraldo Rivera incident). I liked some of the really twisty cases on L&O - the grandmother who hires a hitman (and it turns out she was right - her daughter-in-laws new husband did kill her son) and gets on so well with Lenny, the baby doctor who is using his own DNA, and the case that leads to the murder trial of a plastic surgeon who killed a woman (and had a biomedical rep assisting during the surgery). ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2020, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/79 "2020-01-25T16:31:18Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Yeah. “Barry Peck” played by Nick Chinlund. He also played the embedded reporter who revealed US troop positions in another episode of L&O (based on the Geraldo Rivera incident). > > I liked some of the really twisty cases on L&O - the grandmother who hires a hitman (and it turns out she was right - her daughter-in-laws new husband did kill her son) and gets on so well with Lenny, the baby doctor who is using his own DNA, and the case that leads to the murder trial of a plastic surgeon who killed a woman (and had a biomedical rep assisting during the surgery). Thank you for posting that. Please feel welcome to post more about the episodes you enjoyed. I’d very much like to learn what some of them might be. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2020, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355/80 "2020-01-25T18:54:18Z")
Speaking of recurring defense attorneys - I love Daniel Melnick. SHe always knows how to stick it to McCoy. (Did they have a relationship prior to the show? One wonders.) I also like Shambala Green. I always got the vibe her and Stone used to be an item. Speaking of, is Wolf obsessed with bedding his assistants? There sure is a lot if that throughout the show. At least I think we can be pretty sure he never slept with Serena, and I think Abby would have told McCoy to go F himself. Speaking of speaking of…have you all noticed how some episode themes get repeated, even across the shows? Like both mothership and CI had episodes about fertility doctors who impregnated their patient. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-brief-tribute-to-law-order/846355.md?page=5)